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Post subject: Project Phoenix (Tips, Suggestions Welcome!)
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:58 am
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So my '84 G&L Superhawk is in dire need of some TLC. The body hasn't exactly been treated right over the years and it's been poorly refinished numerous times by previous owners.

I fully intend to restore and refinish the body in white acrylic lacquer with a yellow tint coat and a nitro clear coat.

Image

This is what I want the refin to match, the headstock:

Image

The guitar was indeed originally white (I removed what was left of the Guitar-Tech/Graph-Tech string lock to confirm this), it has seriously yellowed over the years due to heavy UV exposure and cigarette smoke. Whoever had the guitar before me didn't care to sand the headstock down and refinish it, and for that I'm grateful. I just wish they had left the original finish alone.

So, last night, I began the tear down process.

Image

I also have some issues that need to be addressed with the body. As you can see here, during previous refins, someone got way too happy with the sander:

Image

Any tips on how to restore my Superhawk's body and finish? Do I start with wood filler/fullerplast, then color coat, then tint coat, then clear coat? I also intend to do some mild relicing to the finish to make it match the headstock wear.

Tips, suggestions, criticisms, please leave it all here. Thanks!

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Last edited by phoenix-caster on Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:08 am
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Additionally, further revisions to the guitar will include:

-Brand new pots (the originals have just about had it)

-New Seymour Duncan pickups (I only have one of the original Schallers left. The bridge pickup looks like it may be some kind of old DiMarzio, but there aren't any markings on the pickup to lend any clues as to what it is. The bridge pickup also had a strange tendency to add dirt to any clean tone, which that had its place, but it got old quick.)

-Kahler String Lock (good luck finding an original, seems to me I have the only one of these guitars with an incomplete original string lock)

That just about covers it. Luckily, the original switch and input jack are still good. I'll need to locate some new cloth wire to use, however.

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Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:50 pm
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Hi phoenix-caster!

... I smell another build thread coming up! Great! :)

I took the liberty of adding your thread to the below one, so future enthusiasts can source from the collective wisdom. I hope that's OK with you?
Good luck with the refurb! I'm sure it'll be a stunner once finished!

Build Thread Listing. A place for knowledge and research!
http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?t=43152&highlight=build+thread+listing

-Nutter


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Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:21 pm
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Nutter, that's aye-okay with me. 8)

I'm crossing my fingers that this will come out looking like it might have been a factory paint job that's aged slightly over the years from use. This is my first serious refinish/restoration, so I don't exactly have a lot of expertise in this area. I have a basic understanding of some things, but nothing extensive.

For example, I just found out that with a tint coat, you don't need to clear coat. The tint coat serves the same purpose as the clear, although it wouldn't hurt to add one coat of clear for some extra sheen.

So, here's the process I'm going to go through when it comes time to finish the body, step by step. The Superhawk is made of ash, so if anything here doesn't agree with the body wood, please correct me.

1. Minwax Wood Filler, 1 Initial Coat
    -Block sand with 220 grit paper
    -1 additional coat of filler
    -Wipe down with lacquer thinner
    -Block sand with 320 grit paper
    -Wipe down with damp rag and allow to dry

2. Sanding Sealer, up to 4 coats
    -Sand with 320 grit paper as needed
    -Wipe down with damp rag and allow to dry

3. BIN Shellac Primer or Re-Ranch White Primer (Aerosol)
    -Wet sand with 320 grit paper, allow to dry

4. Color coat (Re-Ranch Aerosol)
    -Spray as needed evenly
    -Allow to dry
    -Use up to 4 coats

5. Tint Coat/Clear Coat (Re-Ranch Aerosol)
    -See process for step 4 above

6. Wet Sand
    -600 grit wet (occasional use of lemon oil to reduce friction), sanding in a circular motion
    -1200 grit, sanded slightly more wet than with the 600 grit paper to smooth out the 600 grit
    -1500 grit, wet
    -2000 grit, wet, sanded softly

7. Clean with soap and water solution with soft cotton cloth

8. Power buff using carnuba wax
    -Wipe down often, around every 5 to 10 minutes


I'm not sure what to use as my color/base coat. The original white has almost yellowed to the color of Gibson TV Yellow. I'm thinking Vintage White with a heavy Yellow Tint coat may produce the desired effect I'm looking for. Any input?

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Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:34 pm
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Oh, well, I'm sure forum mebers Ceri, Andybighair, Kong, Kozy & Tewelvebar and many other accomplished members I have shamefully forgotten to mention (sorry guys- no harm intended! :) ) might drop by and give you some tips. I highly recommend the build thread I linked to for input on your main subjects. Just give it a read, perhaps you'll be amazed at the depth of knowledge on the forum.
I for one am no good at finishes, so I'll be mostly on the side line for applause and well-wishing, fingers crossing and so forth. Give it a day or two, I'm sure people will donate some ideas!

Although from my point of view you're doing some pretty sophisticated researching there, you should be on a good path!

all the best!

-Nutter


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Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:21 pm
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I've been skimming through and studying each thread linked to in your thread in addition to researching using other threads on the ReRanch forums and abroad. :wink:

I'm obessed with getting this right. I've loved my Superhawk from the moment it arrived on my doorstep. It's a great old guitar, probably the closest thing to a vintage Fullerton-era Fender I'll be able to own, and it deserves this sort of attention.

Adding the small nicks and dings will be the easy part. I've had some experience with relicing a finish, so I'm not too worried about what to do and what not to do here.

I'm stumped as to how I should go about building the chamfer edge on the bass side cutout back up and to the correct contour/shape.

I honestly wonder if it just wouldn't be easier to reuse the neck and make a brand new body out of an ash blank. Of course, that would be making this resto project even more of a challenge. I do have a template drawn out, but I think I would rather save it for a future build.

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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:05 pm
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The previous owner sent me the missing locks through the mail today. :D

Here within the next few days, I'll be stripping the current finish off. I'll try to take some pics.

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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:19 pm
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phoenix-caster wrote:
Nutter, that's aye-okay with me. 8)

I'm crossing my fingers that this will come out looking like it might have been a factory paint job that's aged slightly over the years from use. This is my first serious refinish/restoration, so I don't exactly have a lot of expertise in this area. I have a basic understanding of some things, but nothing extensive.

For example, I just found out that with a tint coat, you don't need to clear coat. The tint coat serves the same purpose as the clear, although it wouldn't hurt to add one coat of clear for some extra sheen.

So, here's the process I'm going to go through when it comes time to finish the body, step by step. The Superhawk is made of ash, so if anything here doesn't agree with the body wood, please correct me.

1. Minwax Wood Filler, 1 Initial Coat
    -Block sand with 220 grit paper
    -1 additional coat of filler
    -Wipe down with lacquer thinner
    -Block sand with 320 grit paper
    -Wipe down with damp rag and allow to dry

2. Sanding Sealer, up to 4 coats
    -Sand with 320 grit paper as needed
    -Wipe down with damp rag and allow to dry

3. BIN Shellac Primer or Re-Ranch White Primer (Aerosol)
    -Wet sand with 320 grit paper, allow to dry

4. Color coat (Re-Ranch Aerosol)
    -Spray as needed evenly
    -Allow to dry
    -Use up to 4 coats

5. Tint Coat/Clear Coat (Re-Ranch Aerosol)
    -See process for step 4 above

6. Wet Sand
    -600 grit wet (occasional use of lemon oil to reduce friction), sanding in a circular motion
    -1200 grit, sanded slightly more wet than with the 600 grit paper to smooth out the 600 grit
    -1500 grit, wet
    -2000 grit, wet, sanded softly

7. Clean with soap and water solution with soft cotton cloth

8. Power buff using carnuba wax
    -Wipe down often, around every 5 to 10 minutes

I'm not sure what to use as my color/base coat. The original white has almost yellowed to the color of Gibson TV Yellow. I'm thinking Vintage White with a heavy Yellow Tint coat may produce the desired effect I'm looking for. Any input?
Hiya, a couple suggestions on your finishing schedule, if I may.

First and foremost I say this all the time: use a respirator that is rated for VOC's, even if you spray outside, and especially since you are looking at reranch stuff which is Nitrocellulose Lacquer. (fine stuff, and a reputable brand, but you need to take the proper safety precautions.)

I would avoid your 'damp rag' every time you mention it, if you mean damp with water. I would only do that once, at the very last step of your prep sanding. Wring the cloth out as much as you can, then very lightly scuff sand, using only the weight of a rolled up piece of 320P sandpaper.

water will raise the grain of your surface, the method above will allow you to get rid of the last bit of shredded wood fibre attached to the surface after your main sanding. wetting the wood any more will make the surface uneven again.

on your later steps you can (and should,)wipe down with a cloth very lightly dampened with Naphtha, but i would not suggest water. if any, and I mean ANY water gets into screw holes, or under your lacquer it will cause the wood to swell, and you'll be looking at splits in your finish, and in extreme cases even in your wood. at the very least your wood will no longer be flat, and your paint might not adhere.

Ok step 1: wood filler is not the same as grain filler. So unless you are filling in big dings, that's not the right stuff. If you are just looking to fill the grain, and make a glassy surface you need to hunt down a product called "Grain Filler" or 'more likely 'Pore Filler' Unless of coarse you are experienced in thinning and cutting your wood filler.

Steps 2 and 3:If you use sanding sealer, forget the shellac. It is a substitute for that, rather than your primer. You have allow to dry as a last step all the time, but you need to allow your paint to dry (I would suggest overnight,) before you sand/wipe it. In fact I consider the wipe down with naphtha as a first process in every step, rather than a last one though. You want your paint to be very dry to the touch before wiping.
Naphtha will evaporate very quickly, you can move on to the next paint coat right away after the wipe down.

4 and 5: not much to add, except you may want to do a couple coats of tinted clear, then go to normal clear. For first time finishers it doesn't hurt to have a little extra clear coat, you'll be amazed at how much of it you remove during wet sanding. Especially if you have a lot of orange peel effect (which happens a lot to inexperienced finishers, so don't panic if it happens to you!)

Step 6: Wet Sanding-- I think you need some help with this.

First off, i would use every single grade of sand paper from your starting grade to the finest grade you want to go to. What you'll want to do is soak it over night in water, or mineral oil if you decide to go that route (the kind of Lemon Oil you refer to is just scented mineral oil.) Personally I usually use water, with a splash of Murphy's Oil Soap, dish soap is another good choice. You need to avoid getting the surface very wet though, and be especially careful around screw holes. You could use mineral oil, or perhaps even better Low Odor Mineral Spirits (though you'll still want to wear a respirator if you use that.)

What I do is I use a white eraser as a sanding block, use only the weight of the eraser. I keep a small bowl of water with some soap in it nearby to rinse and clean the paper, you'll feel it when it gets gummed up. Now i don't recommend sanding in circles at all. I sand in one direction, until I knock the surface flat, you can tell by looking across the body in good light. I stay away from the edges until I hit a finer grit of sandpaper, like 1200 it's way too easy to sand through on the edges (especially the horns.). When you have knocked down the bumps you are ready to go to the next grit.

Wipe the body down (rag with naphtha,) and change the water in your bowl, clean it out good, you don't want any errant grit from the coarser paper to accidentally get on your paper and leave a gouge. This is where sanding in one direction pays off, this time you sand only in 90 degrees from the prior direction, this will make it way easier to make sure you sand the full surface, because you sand until all the marks from the prior grit are gone, it would be hard to tell if you go circular. repeat this until you get to your finest grit.

step 7: skip the soap and water, use naphtha.

step 8: i power buff using first medium then fine grit polishing compound, use a different pad for either. Odds are you won't feel the need to wax it after that. If you wax, then you will need to keep reapplying wax over time, it's really not necessary if you do a proper polish/rub out. All this can be hand done, if you are patient, or you could even continue wetsanding into the super fine micro mesh grits (I am considering that route on my project actually.)

On your colour choice, try their Vintage White, you probably won't need to use a tinted clear. Reranch does a good job on those colours. Always test on scrap.

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Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:50 am
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Twelvebar wrote:
Hiya, a couple suggestions on your finishing schedule, if I may.....

Man, that is a quality post 12bar. Good Stuff!

Phoenix-caster, You've got some top advice from a chap who seriously knows his stuff right there! :D

Good luck with your project!

Andy

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Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:43 pm
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12bar, thanks so much for the advice! I'm revising my notes as I write this. I really appreciate it.

Additionally, before I go any further, do you or anyone else have any advice on how to re build that chamfer section I photographed. Would this be the appropriate place to use wood filler?

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Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:08 pm
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with woodfiller you'd have to re-model and sand to shape. I'm a woody kind of guy so I probably would rout out that section, glue in a block of wood and re-shape it. (Ingeniusly done examples can be found in AndyBighairs Big Hairy Strat Build on the bridge part of the guitar and on Ceri's Touching-Up Niki's Body thread.) That said, it's quite a few tools needed for that way of doing it and also can get fiddly, so in your case maybe a re-modeling with some kind of artificial wood-paste is the better option. I don't know if woodfiller is the best substance for the task though. Never tried building up that much mass. Several layers should do the trick I think.

Good luck!

-Nutter


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Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:24 pm
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Late as hell on an update, but work on this one came to a grinding halt after dismantling.

Something great got thrown my way last night, though. That's all I'm going to say. I'm trying like hell not to jinx anything. ;)

If things pan out, I'll have this project finished in no time.

I'll give you a hint, though: what do you do with a car with a good engine, transmission, and interior, but a rusty body?

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Post subject: Re: Project Phoenix (Tips, Suggestions Welcome!)
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:50 am
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That Superhawk is good looking! Can't wait to see pics of the finished project 8)

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