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Post subject: Differences - Can't decide on Precision or PJ Bass
Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:52 pm
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Hi everyone

I'm in the process making final decisions on which bass to buy. I play multiple instruments and generally just record at home. I've no immediate plans to gig as a bass player but won't rule it out at some point in the future. Although most of my other instruments are nice Gibsons and Fenders etc, I've been getting by using just a Squier Jazz bass which I've had for 8 years. Being more of a guitar man, I've generally favored investment in guitars over basses. My recordings (in terms of bass sounds) are okay but nothing remarkable. Due to this, I was thinking it's time to upgrade.

I was seriously considering getting an American Special PJ Bass like the one here. My thoughts on the PJ Bass were that it would be versatile and take care of Precision sounds and Jazz sounds. Is this the case or have others found that you're better off with an actual Precision 'or' Jazz for their authentic sounds?

Is the bass I've linked to above any good? I'm still actually considering it. The pickups are American Standard Precision Bass Alnico and an American Standard Vintage Alnico Jazz Bass single coil.

However....

Given I already have Jazz Bass sounds covered via my Squier, I am considering just getting a Precision Bass. My dilemma is whether to go with a Mexican Standard or American Standard. Obviously, one is twice the price of the other. The thing is....would there be a notable difference between the two? The American Standard comes with a Custom Shop 60s pickup. Would this be much better than the pickups on the other Basses I've mentioned? I'd rather buy wisely once. By the way, I'm not in a position to try any out.

What your thoughts on my three options? Any advice from you experienced bass folks would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Differences - Can't decide on Precision or PJ Bass
Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:37 pm
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One of the advantages you can benefit from a PJ configuration: no longer need to switch instruments between the songs - unless the use of a neck-position J pickup for a specific song is mandatory.

However, PJ pickups had their disadvantages, our venerable bass guru Brother Dave will tell you more about those.


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Post subject: Re: Differences - Can't decide on Precision or PJ Bass
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:39 am
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chromeface wrote:
However, PJ pickups had their disadvantages, our venerable bass guru Brother Dave will tell you more about those.


Thanks Chromeface. Yep..not having to swap would be great I guess. Is it that the PJ picks had disadvantages, as in previously had but no longer have issues now? I'll await Brother Dave :wink:

I'm unsure of the PJ Bass I linked to in my first post. It looks a good deal for an American Special PJ but the retailer has had it in stock for a long long time. Given it can be had for not much more than a Mexican Precision or Jazz, I thought it would have been snapped up ages ago. I'm just wondering if there's something undesirable about it - i.e. the American Standard Alnico pickups? I would not have though this though with these likely being highly regarded? Strange!! - Any thoughts?

I'm almost thinking a Precision Bass now. I always saw myself playing a 3 Tone Sunburst Precision with a Tortoiseshell Pickguard. Therefore, my options would be to get an American Standard or get a Mexican one and swap out the white pickguard for a tortoiseshell one. I've no idea what the American Standard's Custom Shop 60s pickups sound like in comparison to Mexican's standard ones. I was thinking American all the way until I heard a few Youtube comparison clips where the the Mexican sounded better. However, we are talking Youtube here and the basses were Mexican 1996, USA 1998 etc.

I have until the end of next week to decide if I should opt for one which is half the price of the other or one twice the price of the other. Although the American Standard would hurt my credit card a bit more, is there a very good chance it is a much more superior bass in quality of sound and feel? Probably a very subjective question to ask but I thought I would see what the consensus was.

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Post subject: Re: Differences - Can't decide on Precision or PJ Bass
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:02 am
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I'd get the one you linked to, but that's me. I've never seen one like that, but I live in the US and that might be a special order for there. That happens all of the time. But if you want just a P-Bass, I wouldn't bother with the Mexican Standard, unless that's all you can really afford. I think those things can be a crap shoot on quality, but it could be that I've had bad luck with them.

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Post subject: Re: Differences - Can't decide on Precision or PJ Bass
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:48 am
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From the link you posted to Thomann, I take it you're in the UK . That is a very nice bass, and if you like it then get it. There is a lot of good to be said in favor of the Precision/Jazz pick-up combination that the late great T-Bone Wolk popularized in the 1980's.

Fender Aerodyne Jazz is a very nice P/J, as are the new American & Mexican made Jaguars. I find the American Standard Jaguar to be especially appealing, and about the same price as a American Standard Precision.

The Fender Precision is the best selling; most played, and most recorded electric bass guitar in history. There is a really good reason for that. They sound great. Play great. Record great. Easy to set up, and easy to play. The American Standard with it's Custom Shop pickups is most definitely the way to go.

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Post subject: Re: Differences - Can't decide on Precision or PJ Bass
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:59 am
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linnin wrote:
The American Standard with it's Custom Shop pickups is most definitely the way to go.


+1

The CS '60s split-coil P-bass humbucker can be perfectly matched to a CS '60s linear J-bass single coil for unparalleled versatility.


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Post subject: Re: Differences - Can't decide on Precision or PJ Bass
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:27 pm
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> But if you want just a P-Bass, I wouldn't bother with the Mexican Standard,
> unless that's all you can really afford. I think those things can be a crap
> shoot on quality, but it could be that I've had bad luck with them.

This is one of the most frustrating situations in the MI world -- lack of consistency from one serial number to the next. I don't doubt what Paul's saying, but I've seen almost none of that in the Mex instruments in my travels. There's an ever-so-slight bump in my Am's neck about 1/3 of the way down from the neck. You have to squint real hard to see it. (Zero effect on playability, obviously). However, my Mex's is dead flat, and every other attribute of the instrument is a 10 out of 10. Same deal with my Cabronita: 10 out of 10. And in a wild case of Bizarro World, the last Squier I handled was a $199 JB, and I swear it had the straightest neck I've ever seen on any JB, and I've owned and played lots of those, all the way back to the mid '70s.

Reminds me of the .45 world back in the late '70s and early '80s. Colt Gold Cups could come through tight, or come through as rattles needing $400 worth of gunsmithing to be able to hit anything. You either got lucky when you opened the box, or you didn't.

GAH.

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Post subject: Re: Differences - Can't decide on Precision or PJ Bass
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:01 pm
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Thanks for your replies guys.

PaulLF - The PJ Bass is a special edition for the retailer in Violin Burst. I totally get what you're saying about the risk of potentially entering a crap shoot. I reckoned the American made ones, given price difference, would likely to be a better build with less inconsistencies out there in terms of quality. However, I am willing to entertain the fact that 'anything' is possible from any country. Having said that, I have an American Strat and Tele. If I close my eyes and were handed them, I'd have trouble guessing which was which. Their similarity is unbelievable and a testimony to consistency in quality (of just two mind you). I'm kinda hoping the basses are too. :)

Linnin - I actually am in the UK. I'm seriously tempted by the American Standard and realise I could hardly go wrong with it. Are the Custom Shop 60s pickups a slightly smoother option than previous years' pickups? Or will they have an abundance of growl and punch associated with the P-Bass?

Chromeface - The addition of a bridge Jazz 60s pickup to the standard is a neat idea. I would never attempt it myself though lol.

Craig.p - Interesting stuff there. I just wish my local stores had some nice MIMs in stock. I liked the .45 comparison. Lets hope I don't get a crap shoot ha ha ha. :lol:

Can I ask you guys. Regarding the American Special PJ I linked to in my first post, is it possible that the Standard US Alnico Split Precision pickup is the same Standard pickup in Precision Basses of previous years gone by's American Standards? What potential quality disadvantages are there with an American Special compared to a Standard? I can only see the gig bag compromise when researching them.

Thanks

Winter


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Post subject: Re: Differences - Can't decide on Precision or PJ Bass
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:01 pm
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I'd put my vote in for a used Tony Franklin Signature. It's got the 3 position selector switch so you can get true passive P bass alone tone. The p/j sound and bridge J alone if you'd ever want that kind of thing. It's an american made artist series with upgraded pick ups, bridge and really nice fit and finish. Used you can get one for likely just under what a new American Standard would cost you. You'll get a more versatile bass and not sacrifice on quality.

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Post subject: Re: Differences - Can't decide on Precision or PJ Bass
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:10 pm
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wintersolder wrote:
Hi everyone

I'm in the process making final decisions on which bass to buy. I play multiple instruments and generally just record at home. I've no immediate plans to gig as a bass player but won't rule it out at some point in the future. Although most of my other instruments are nice Gibsons and Fenders etc, I've been getting by using just a Squier Jazz bass which I've had for 8 years. Being more of a guitar man, I've generally favored investment in guitars over basses. My recordings (in terms of bass sounds) are okay but nothing remarkable. Due to this, I was thinking it's time to upgrade.

I was seriously considering getting an American Special PJ Bass like the one here. My thoughts on the PJ Bass were that it would be versatile and take care of Precision sounds and Jazz sounds. Is this the case or have others found that you're better off with an actual Precision 'or' Jazz for their authentic sounds?

Is the bass I've linked to above any good? I'm still actually considering it. The pickups are American Standard Precision Bass Alnico and an American Standard Vintage Alnico Jazz Bass single coil.

However....

Given I already have Jazz Bass sounds covered via my Squier, I am considering just getting a Precision Bass. My dilemma is whether to go with a Mexican Standard or American Standard. Obviously, one is twice the price of the other. The thing is....would there be a notable difference between the two? The American Standard comes with a Custom Shop 60s pickup. Would this be much better than the pickups on the other Basses I've mentioned? I'd rather buy wisely once. By the way, I'm not in a position to try any out.

What your thoughts on my three options? Any advice from you experienced bass folks would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


Wow, that is one I've never seen before at that Thomann link. It is a Fender Special Run model, sometimes just called a FSR. It is exclusive to them. Pretty unique and while I'm not a fan of the American Special series as a rule this one might be an exception. Possibly the reason it is discounted is because everyone wants one like their favorite pro player uses and it isn't that one in that finish.

The main thing about the typical passive Vol/Vol/Tone P/J's is that they don't sound exactly like a P when the neck pickup is soloed and they don't sound exactly like a Jazz when the bridge pickup is soloed. They have a slightly different voicing. This is due to loading in the circuit from the other pickup which is still present even when one pickup or the other is soloed. Fender has made few passive P/J basses with a pickup select switch, like the short lived JP90, which allowed you to get an exact P-Bass and J-Bass tone by switching between the pickups to make it sound exactly like a P or a J.

Which one to get will partly depend on your recording technique, recording environment and how married you are to the J-Bass neck width. Almost always a P-Bass is more immune to RFI than a single coil bass like most Jazz basses and are great for recording if you are going to be around RFI fields. Noiseless Jazz pickups in a passive P/J to me don't sound as "Jazzy" as a true single coil J pickup in a passive J.

The Mexican Standard P-Bass is a good value and ideal for routine gigging, especially in environments that can turn hostile. The MIM P-Bass stock pickups are not the same as the USA ones, but you can get a USA pickup for it and it will sound way more like a USA P-Bass. But in the studio you are probably better off with a stock American Standard P-Bass in the long run. They hold more value percentage wise when trading or selling than the MIM ones. I have gigged with MIM and Japanese P-Basses for a long time but not with the stock pickups. After a pickup upgrade you won't hear much difference in a recording between a USA and a MIM P-Bass. However the USA Standards have better neck designs being more stable long term, better fret finishing, better hardware, etc. They are a better instrument, but they cost more. There is really nothing inherently wrong with a MIM P-Bass for the money, but the first thing most people do is start upgrading one to make it play and look more like a USA instrument. The trouble with that concept is that no matter how many upgrades you do it is still a MIM P-Bass and any upgrades you do will not give any return on your upgrade investment when selling it or trading it down the road. It will still be worth pretty much the same thing a stock one is worth.

I think in your case, being primarily a guitarist doubling on bass for home recording, not playing the bass out professionally and being used to the Jazz neck profile already that you'd find either the MIM or American Standard P-Bass neck fat. You need to play one first to make certain the P-Bass neck will work for you. If it doesn't feel right, then I'd look for a P/J with a Jazz neck profile like the Precision Bass Special, which is a MIM P/J instrument that somewhat mitigates the P/J loading issue and the Noiseless Jazz pickup with an active EQ system. Like the MIM Standard P-Bass and J-Bass it is an excellent value, and with the active EQ you might find a pickup swap totally unnecessary. Normally I don't like active basses much or recommend them, but in your particular situation I'd point you toward the Precision Bass Special, especially if you don't feel good with a P-Bass neck width. It is possibly the most versatile bass for the money and one of the best values in the entire Fender line. There was a Fender Special Run on these done a year or two ago in the UK that was extra nice. Here is a photo of the FSR UK model I'm talking about in the event you might can track one down there. It has several unique features including an improved bridge over the stock P-Bass Special it is based upon.

Image


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Post subject: Re: Differences - Can't decide on Precision or PJ Bass
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:52 am
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brotherdave wrote:
Image


This is the FSR Deluxe P-Bass Special in it original active form.

Discontinued and replaced by a revised model featuring a BadAss II bridge with grooved saddles, passive electronics and a top-mounted jack. Available in Surf Green (parchment p/g) and Black (tortoise p/g). No longer made.

Image

(pictured bass is not mine).

Quote:
Fender has made few passive P/J basses with a pickup select switch, like the short lived JP90, which allowed you to get an exact P-Bass and J-Bass tone by switching between the pickups to make it sound exactly like a P or a J.


The Boner Precisions do have that toggle. They also boasted a series/parallel push-push selector for the neck pickup which once pushed down gave a more Jazz neck pickup sound.

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Post subject: Re: Differences - Can't decide on Precision or PJ Bass
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:58 am
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Yeah, here's the Fretted Franklin with the switch. They discontinued them this year. (The fretless is still being produced) I've seen them used for less than a used American Vintage. Definitely less than a new American Standard. If a switchable passive P/J is what you're looking for. One of these used would definitely be my recommendation. In terms of quality I think it's the best made switchable P/J Fender ever made.

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Post subject: Re: Differences - Can't decide on Precision or PJ Bass
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:07 am
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Yeah, I've had some GAS for that fretless Tony Franklin P-Bass. Can't afford it right now, though. :(

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Post subject: Re: Differences - Can't decide on Precision or PJ Bass
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:05 pm
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Wow thanks you all very much for the ace replies.

brotherdave - The information on the pick up combinations was dynamite. I'm so glad you posted before I misguidedly opted for a regular PJ. I definitely need the standard precision sound and wouldn't have got it with this.

I was actually looking at those FSR Precision Bass Specials last week and tried finding one then. Unfortunately, they are as rare as can be. Pity as I do actually like the sea foam green and black block inlay combination. Pity they aren't almost impossible to source. I found this but I'm unsure if they are the same thing, electronically speaking, as the FSR Precision Bass Specials you mentioned. To be honest, I don't really like the look of the ones I linked to that much.

TheKingofPain & brotherdave & Anyone Else - Thomman actually have the fretted Tony Franklin in stock. Unfortunately, it's about £400 more expensive than their American Standard Precision. Over and above all the other PJ-type options, would this actually be the most faithful electronic configuration in terms of true Standard P-Bass sound along with a bridge Jazz sound, without the unused pickup loading issues the others have? I don't know if anyone can read the wiring diagram which I found?

By the way, it says they are Tony Franklin pickups. Does that mean they'd be much different from a Standard? Wonder why they discontinued the fretted version?

Chromeface - I've never seen these before. Just Googled them. You learn something every day lol.

Thanks

Winter


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Post subject: Re: Differences - Can't decide on Precision or PJ Bass
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:31 pm
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This would solve the loading issue. I'm sure there's a demo of the bass somewhere on Youtube so you can hear what they sound like. I'm sure the Jazz pick up is very Jazz like, but likely a little beefier for using it alone. I would take a look around for a used one. New they are definitely pricey. As far as why they are discontinued. I would imagine a player like Franklin probably doesn't have a fan base to support multiple models and since the fretless adds more to the overall line up it's probably the one they went with. I've never understood hired guns like Franklin or the recent Custom Shop artist addition of Sean Hurley getting a signature model. While players like this are certainly top shelf talents. They have a fairly small base of fans in relation to someone like a Sting. Players like Franklin and Hurley usually have almost exclusively musician fans. Many of those fans already have basses. Where as a player like a Mark Hoppus, Nate Mendel, Roger Waters, or Mike Dirnt h legions of fans who may be more dabblers into music, or simply fans who collect things with ties to them. So while Franklin might be able to keep one model afloat. The number of bassists who are also Tony Franklin fans, and also have enough money to spend on TWO higher end basses is probably pretty small.

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