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Post subject: American Delux prec. bass with p-pup and double jazz wiring
Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:57 pm
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It originally came with two volumes a mids and a stacked trble/bass(4 controls). I Took out the active electronics and wired it with 4 500k pots which is supposedly a volume and a tone for each pickup. The active was too harsh and trebly.

My local guy (long & McQuades) gave two orange drop capacitors. One is 223 and the other is 473 (22000 pF and 47000 pF if I have understood what I have been reading). I AM REALLY JUST TRYING RANDOM THINGS. AND WHAT I FIND IS THAT TURNING THE VOLUME OR TONE of one pickup down - affects the sound of the other pickup.

So A) can I get volume tone for each pickup but isolated from each other (without electronics)?
B) Am I on the right track?
C) Would I be better off with two volumes and a master tone (like a jazz bass) but maybe with a series parallel switch?
D) Honestly - i have asked some pretty good techs around town (Toronto) but no one has encountered a guy with two passive pickups and wanting four controls.

I beg of you to answer if you know of a solution - but please not if you are guessing. Please. And thank You.


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Post subject: Re: American Delux prec. bass with p-pup and double jazz wir
Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:08 am
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Offering three Fender Bass inspired solutions, but with the first two options you are still going to have some loading even when soloing one pickup.

1. Traditional Jazz Bass 3 pot scheme, such as this Jaco diagram. Listed first because it is the simplest solution and the one Fender stuck with after initially going with the more complicated scheme which follows in option number 2. You obviously were already thinking this was a possibility.

http://guitarnucleus.com/gitschems/FenJacoJazzSchem.pdf

2. The 62 Jazz with two stacked pots scheme. This gives you both volume and tone control for each pickup! The Fender Part Number for these unique pots is 0019268000 and they are available from a few sources including Angela. What might be one ideal solution in your particular situation is taking this diagram and breaking the stacked pots down into four separate pots instead of two stacked (double ganged) pots. If you do the break up into 4 separate pots, then the two volumes should be 500K and the two tones 250K, which is what these stacked pots are too. While it gives you separate volume and tone, it doesn't eliminate the loading issue either.

http://support.fender.com/service_diagrams/bass_guitars/019-0209C_SISD.pdf

3. The JP-90 type wiring scheme has simple controls with one master volume, one master tone and one 3 way select switch for neck solo/both on/bridge solo pickup selection. This is the only one allowing you to SOLO each pickup with no loading from the other, but in JP-90-Land there is no way to blend the pickups, so they have to be fairly well balanced in output for the center "Both On" position to make much difference. If they are not balanced the Precision pickup will dominate and the center position sounds much like the Precision pickup soloed does and then when switching to the Jazz soloed then it sounds relatively anemic. If the output of your pickups are way out of balance it is possible to add a hidden variable 500k pad pot (sometimes called a trim pot) inline on the P-Bass pickup leads ahead of the switch and volume pot. Then you can adjust this trim pot to pad down the Precision output level until it matches the Jazz pickup level. The pad/trim pot is a "set it and forget it" solution concealed in the control cavity secured with double sided sticky foam so it doesn't flop around. Adding the hidden trim pot is not quite the nightmare it sounds to be, but getting it set right can be touchy and requires using a VU meter and having a lot of patience.

http://www.brotherdave.com/images/jp90diagram.jpg

If you try one of the above schemes, do heed the pot and cap values for whichever diagram you decide to try.

If loading is your primary concern the JP-90 is the one. If you want separate volume and tone for each pickup the 62 Jazz has that. For simplicity the traditional 3 control Jazz arrangement wins. I also think the 3 control Jazz gives you plenty of tonal options, but not quite the tonal options of the 62.

I've used all three of these schemes and they all have their strong points. I'm not sure what I'd do in your situation, but I might go to the third option in order to have access to a true P and true J tone.


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Post subject: Re: American Delux prec. bass with p-pup and double jazz wir
Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:49 am
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jimnto wrote:
It originally came with two volumes a mids and a stacked trble/bass(4 controls). I Took out the active electronics and wired it with 4 500k pots which is supposedly a volume and a tone for each pickup. The active was too harsh and trebly.

My local guy (long & McQuades) gave two orange drop capacitors. One is 223 and the other is 473 (22000 pF and 47000 pF if I have understood what I have been reading). I AM REALLY JUST TRYING RANDOM THINGS. AND WHAT I FIND IS THAT TURNING THE VOLUME OR TONE of one pickup down - affects the sound of the other pickup.

So A) can I get volume tone for each pickup but isolated from each other (without electronics)?
B) Am I on the right track?
C) Would I be better off with two volumes and a master tone (like a jazz bass) but maybe with a series parallel switch?
D) Honestly - i have asked some pretty good techs around town (Toronto) but no one has encountered a guy with two passive pickups and wanting four controls.

I beg of you to answer if you know of a solution - but please not if you are guessing. Please. And thank You.



There aren't two separate volumes for each pickup.

The 2 first pots are a master volume and a pickup balance (dynamic panpot) with the latter 2 affecting the 3-band EQ.
Later US Deluxes do have two stacked pots (one of which also affects the passive tone control) and a mode switch for active/passive operation.


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Post subject: Re: American Delux prec. bass with p-pup and double jazz wir
Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:07 am
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Thank you for both replies. I did forget what the controls were.

Could I ask a follow up question? Should I know anything about the pickups that are in the bass now?

With my existing (somewhat flawed) alterations, it seems like the double jazz pickup is about the same volume as the Precision pickup. Also, that double-jazz bridge pickup is a little nasally but doesn't have the crystalline highs I would expect from a bridge pickup.

But as I try the schemes above - they seem balanced - the Precision pickup is quite nice, the bridge pickup is OK - I am a little puzzled by it.

And thanks again.


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Post subject: Re: American Delux prec. bass with p-pup and double jazz wir
Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:20 am
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And sorry - gain another follow up. I have those orange drop capacitors and I read somewhere they do have a ground and I switched them around and I am thinking (or imagining) it makes a difference. I am not sure why my tech friend gave me a 22000pF and a 43000pF - maybe it would be to experiment with.

So I am thinking to try the wiring of the American Vintage Jazz Bass and since I have four control holes (input jack on side of body), I will try 500k volume pots and 250k tones. I am wondering what capacitor values and whether the Precision pickup should have a different value than the double jazz pickup.

And also - is it worth trying the double jazz in series and parallel?

THANKS AGAIN


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Post subject: Re: American Delux prec. bass with p-pup and double jazz wir
Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:49 pm
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jimnto wrote:
And sorry - gain another follow up. I have those orange drop capacitors and I read somewhere they do have a ground and I switched them around and I am thinking (or imagining) it makes a difference. I am not sure why my tech friend gave me a 22000pF and a 43000pF - maybe it would be to experiment with.

So I am thinking to try the wiring of the American Vintage Jazz Bass and since I have four control holes (input jack on side of body), I will try 500k volume pots and 250k tones. I am wondering what capacitor values and whether the Precision pickup should have a different value than the double jazz pickup.

And also - is it worth trying the double jazz in series and parallel?

THANKS AGAIN


As far as what you should know about your pickups, the double J bridge one is wired up in a humbucking arrangement, which is why it is mid range heavy lacking highs. It is NOT a traditional single coil.

As far as cap values, start with the values stated on the 62 Jazz Reissue diagram which is 0.03uF and 0.05uF. I'd use vintage ceramic discs. Wire exactly per the diagram first, then if you are not happy try different cap values, lower to make it brighter and higher to make it more bass heavy. Vintage ceramic disc caps are cheap, but I'd start with the original stock value. Only if unhappy would I try lower or higher values.

Good that the pickups are closely balanced in output.


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Post subject: Re: American Delux prec. bass with p-pup and double jazz wir
Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:56 pm
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Excellent - another problem was i was using 500k pots on the tone controls. I have ordered new pots and ceramic capacitors of the value suggested in the wiring diagram. Should get here in a week or so.

Thanks for the great responses. I will reply when I get the parts in.


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