It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:00 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Post subject: 1965 /66 Pbass?
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:35 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:31 pm
Posts: 15
I came across an L series precision bass - but am a bit confused. the text on the headstock looks like the 66 style, but the plate would date it as 1965.

Also the "Natural" Body looks like it was done at home... there is a run on the finish. Were these sold as kits or something?

And the Fender label almost looks like a sticker...

Image

Image

Image


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: 1965 /66 Pbass?
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:05 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:09 pm
Posts: 417
Early 90's refinished Standard P body?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1965 /66 Pbass?
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:25 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:31 pm
Posts: 15
What about it doesn't match a 65/66 p body? They looked the same to me. But I'm not super familiar with either.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1965 /66 Pbass?
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:25 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:01 am
Posts: 2842
It has that look to it. It's missing a neck screw? Back inna day it was nothing to refinish a Fender bass. No they didn't sell those as kits. Well I tell yah' to be sure about what it is - it has to come apart. There's dates and codes and stamps etc to be looked at. The decal looks okay. Affprod and Brother Dave need to see this.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1965 /66 Pbass?
Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:52 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Albemarle, NC
Holy cats this thing was setup incorrectly! The string end should have been inserted down into the hole in the tuning post, not poking out to the side like that!

Remove the remaining 3 neck bolts and get a replacement for the missing one from a guitar parts supplier or Fender dealer. You really need all 4 neck bolts.

Here is a 65 neck removed. Note the STAMPING on the butt of the neck. You can tell a lot by this code about when it was made.

Image

Please post what your stamping says.

Also you can tell a lot by pot codes. To get to them you have to completely remove the pickguard and carefully flip it over. You need to be able to read the code that begins either with 137 (CTS made) or 304 (Stackpole made). Probably these will start 137. Post what you can read on the back of the pot that begins with either of those numbers.

Look in the body neck pocket for any stampings and under the pickguard also. Post photos preferably of any markings. They probably were destroyed in the refinish. Remove the pickup screws and GENTLY lift the pickups so you can see if there are any pencil dates on the bottoms or any markings on the wood in the pickup cavity. Use great care in disassembly. Make notes, take photos, reassemble with a 4th neck bolt and please get it properly setup.

There are not enough clear photos of the thing to convince me it is the real deal, but I don't see anything that screams it isn't either. I can't tell for example if there are holes where the finger rest was installed and it has been removed or if that is a replica pickguard with no screw holes for the finger rest (tugbar.) It could be a parts bass assembled from different years or it could be all original, except for the missing neck bolt. Full photos front and back, headstock closeup front and back, photo of the neck butt stamping, photos of any marks under and on the backside of the pickguard, closeups of the marker dots, side dots, the backs of the pots where the solder is, a closeup of the bridge, both strap buttons and the case logo if any would help tremendously. Take the requested photos in good light or use a flash. Post the codes requested and we'll all have a look to see what you have. From these pics I can't tell much.

You can't always go by the neck plate serial number as they can be off from what is posted online as there are some wildcard neckplates on obviously all original instruments. Also Fender's model years then ran July 1st of one year to June 30th of the next so technically one made June 30 of 1966 is technically a 1965 model. What the codes tell you is the EARLIEST it could have been made. For example one with obviously original 1966 pot codes can't be a '65 model, but would have to have rolled out in '66 or later in spite of what the serial says. And it could not have been made prior to the date the neck stamping shows either. This will be good info to have.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1965 /66 Pbass?
Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:07 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Albemarle, NC
And no they were not sold as do-it-yourself kits. There was not a natural finish offered in 65 or 66 so this is a refinish for sure. That puts it in player class instead of collector class but it still could be quite valuable, just not as valuable as one with the original finish no matter how beat up the original finish might be.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1965 /66 Pbass?
Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:52 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:01 am
Posts: 2842
Is the strap bolted on ?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1965 /66 Pbass?
Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:32 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:31 pm
Posts: 15
Thanks for all the replies!

stroker vance wrote:
It has that look to it. It's missing a neck screw? Back inna day it was nothing to refinish a Fender bass. No they didn't sell those as kits. Well I tell yah' to be sure about what it is - it has to come apart. There's dates and codes and stamps etc to be looked at. The decal looks okay. Affprod and Brother Dave need to see this.


Thanks! It isn't missing a neck screw - that is just weird lighting. I was hoping I wouldn't have to take it apart, as that is not an option. Unfortunately, the Bass sold this morning, for far more than I would have paid for it, so I wasn't in a position to request the neck be taken off ( or to get into the guts. ).

brotherdave wrote:
Holy cats this thing was setup incorrectly! The string end should have been inserted down into the hole in the tuning post, not poking out to the side like that!

Remove the remaining 3 neck bolts and get a replacement for the missing one from a guitar parts supplier or Fender dealer. You really need all 4 neck bolts.

Here is a 65 neck removed. Note the STAMPING on the butt of the neck. You can tell a lot by this code about when it was made.
...

You can't always go by the neck plate serial number as they can be off from what is posted online as there are some wildcard neckplates on obviously all original instruments. Also Fender's model years then ran July 1st of one year to June 30th of the next so technically one made June 30 of 1966 is technically a 1965 model. What the codes tell you is the EARLIEST it could have been made. For example one with obviously original 1966 pot codes can't be a '65 model, but would have to have rolled out in '66 or later in spite of what the serial says. And it could not have been made prior to the date the neck stamping shows either. This will be good info to have.


While I knew about the neck stamping, I did not know about the pickups, and to look for pencil markings on the side. I wish I could dig into the parts more, and find out more about the story on this guitar. FWIW, it sold for almost $3000, which is about 3x what I was willing to gamble on it. I know that an L-series name plate can be bought for $100 online..

I'm sort of hoping it will show up for again for resale so I can get some pictures from the owner, or maybe some more info about it.

From a value point of view, since it was not the original finish - would it make a difference to have it redone? I assume not, but would be curious to know for the future.

Thanks again for all the info and replies.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1965 /66 Pbass?
Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:36 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:09 pm
Posts: 417
kcroy wrote:
What about it doesn't match a 65/66 p body? They looked the same to me. But I'm not super familiar with either.

Four piece alder body. You don't see many of those from that era.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1965 /66 Pbass?
Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:42 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:31 pm
Posts: 15
WildintheStreets wrote:
kcroy wrote:
What about it doesn't match a 65/66 p body? They looked the same to me. But I'm not super familiar with either.

Four piece alder body. You don't see many of those from that era.


What are the 65/66s normally?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1965 /66 Pbass?
Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:18 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Albemarle, NC
kcroy wrote:
Thanks for all the replies!

stroker vance wrote:
It has that look to it. It's missing a neck screw? Back inna day it was nothing to refinish a Fender bass. No they didn't sell those as kits. Well I tell yah' to be sure about what it is - it has to come apart. There's dates and codes and stamps etc to be looked at. The decal looks okay. Affprod and Brother Dave need to see this.


Thanks! It isn't missing a neck screw - that is just weird lighting. I was hoping I wouldn't have to take it apart, as that is not an option. Unfortunately, the Bass sold this morning, for far more than I would have paid for it, so I wasn't in a position to request the neck be taken off ( or to get into the guts. ).

brotherdave wrote:
Holy cats this thing was setup incorrectly! The string end should have been inserted down into the hole in the tuning post, not poking out to the side like that!

Remove the remaining 3 neck bolts and get a replacement for the missing one from a guitar parts supplier or Fender dealer. You really need all 4 neck bolts.

Here is a 65 neck removed. Note the STAMPING on the butt of the neck. You can tell a lot by this code about when it was made.
...

You can't always go by the neck plate serial number as they can be off from what is posted online as there are some wildcard neckplates on obviously all original instruments. Also Fender's model years then ran July 1st of one year to June 30th of the next so technically one made June 30 of 1966 is technically a 1965 model. What the codes tell you is the EARLIEST it could have been made. For example one with obviously original 1966 pot codes can't be a '65 model, but would have to have rolled out in '66 or later in spite of what the serial says. And it could not have been made prior to the date the neck stamping shows either. This will be good info to have.


While I knew about the neck stamping, I did not know about the pickups, and to look for pencil markings on the side. I wish I could dig into the parts more, and find out more about the story on this guitar. FWIW, it sold for almost $3000, which is about 3x what I was willing to gamble on it. I know that an L-series name plate can be bought for $100 online..

I'm sort of hoping it will show up for again for resale so I can get some pictures from the owner, or maybe some more info about it.

From a value point of view, since it was not the original finish - would it make a difference to have it redone? I assume not, but would be curious to know for the future.

Thanks again for all the info and replies.


Sometimes the pickups have stampings similar to but shorter than the neck stamping starting with the winder's personal 2 digit ID then a date code. Other times ink or pencil marks depending on era and type.

A professionally applied refinish in an era correct color with a light relic treatment might make it sell faster, but it wouldn't add even the cost of the refinish to the actual value. The $3K it sold for is about right for an original parts player class refinished '65 around here on the low end and would be a very fair deal. Anything under that would be a steal from a dealer. A dealer might ask $4K and take 3.5K. In a private sale it might bring closer to 3K.

However if it was totally original in VG to EX a dealer would ask more like $7K to 11K depending on condition, case condition, provenance and scarcity of the finish. Some instruments of this era will have a unique provenance that makes them sell for much more, such as ones owned by star players with proof of their ownership, but among the bulk of them the scarcer custom colors bring the most since there are fewer of them in the first place. I liked the sunburst during this era and so did a lot of players so that is the most common color seen for sale and usually a sunburst one is the best buy. There was no up-charge for sunburst then, and that fact added to the number of them around.

Stripping them down to bare wood staining and clear coating or even oiling was a frequent practice as was refinishing with the least frequently seen being a factory refinish by Fender. Scarcity is exactly why the original finishes bring so much more money. Many collectors only want ones with the original factory finish. These are mostly people in it for the investment angle.

As a rule these instruments were fantastic investments if you bought them in the 1960's or 1970's and much less so if you bought them in 2008 because they are going to appreciate much more slowly and can even go down in value if the demand drops, as it has from time to time. All original 50's and early to mid 60's Fender instruments did most of their value appreciation prior to 1997 or so. Since then there have been fluctuations, sort of like a share of stock in a very solid company or a bag of diamonds or a cache of silver ingots. People who got in on Apple early (during the first 2 years) made the proverbial killing, but much less so if they bought Apple 4 years ago. People who continue to hold Apple stock shares or vintage instruments can see gains or they can see losses depending on market conditions which can fluctuate wildly. That is true for any speculative investment. The Hunt brothers lost their shirts trying to make a big score on silver some years back. Silver ordinarily is a good long term investment, just not on the scale they did it. Vintage instruments today are an extremely speculative investment and values have proven to be quite volatile over the past 15 years just like a share of stock or any hard asset can be. There are no guarantees.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1965 /66 Pbass?
Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:59 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:09 pm
Posts: 417
They're usually 3 piece with a big center block and a smaller block on each side. The back of this one shows a center block with 2 blocks on bottom and 1 on the upper horn.

There are some 4 and 5 piece CBS bodies out there, just not too many.

I could be wrong. The Standard bodies are 5-7 piece but the blocks are generally in line like a fence. There are some U.S. bodies that didn't make inspection that were sent to Ensenada though, during the mid 90's to 2001-ish.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1965 /66 Pbass?
Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:18 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:31 pm
Posts: 15
brotherdave wrote:

A professionally applied refinish in an era correct color with a light relic treatment might make it sell faster, but it wouldn't add even the cost of the refinish to the actual value. The $3K it sold for is about right for an original parts player class refinished '65 around here on the low end and would be a very fair deal. Anything under that would be a steal from a dealer. A dealer might ask $4K and take 3.5K. In a private sale it might bring closer to 3K.


Very interesting. I'm still surprised someone would put down 3k without being able to confirm the neck stamp / etc. That is cool to know about the finish. If I was lucky enough to get it at the price I wanted, I was going to just touch up the finish a bit on the back where it had run.

WildintheStreets wrote:
They're usually 3 piece with a big center block and a smaller block on each side. The back of this one shows a center block with 2 blocks on bottom and 1 on the upper horn.


Thanks I didn't even notice that. I had assumed it would be 3 pieces, since it seems that is how nicer guitars are made.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1965 /66 Pbass?
Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:20 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:00 am
Posts: 1226
Location: In the pocket north of Washington D.C.
FYI: The Fender logo decal on the bass is correct for a 1965 Precision Bass.
The decals were applied above the finish just as that neck demonstrates.

I can't tell how many pieces of wood make up the body, but three piece bodies were common.

I wish that there were better pictures of the front of the bass. We could tell you more.
If you bought this bass and had it professionally refinished in a custom color it would be much more desirable and therefore more valuable.
It would never be an original finished instrument, however.

While this one got away, you now have more knowledge and information to help you on your hunt for your next vintage bass.

_________________
If thine enemy wrong thee, buy each of his children a drum.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 1965 /66 Pbass?
Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:35 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:31 pm
Posts: 15
BCbassman wrote:
FYI: The Fender logo decal on the bass is correct for a 1965 Precision Bass.
The decals were applied above the finish just as that neck demonstrates.

I can't tell how many pieces of wood make up the body, but three piece bodies were common.

I wish that there were better pictures of the front of the bass. We could tell you more.
If you bought this bass and had it professionally refinished in a custom color it would be much more desirable and therefore more valuable.
It would never be an original finished instrument, however.

While this one got away, you now have more knowledge and information to help you on your hunt for your next vintage bass.


Thanks for the additional information. I love coming across old guitars and trying to "find a deal"... and I always starts with identification. I've never come across an older bass like this before, so it has been exciting learning about them. So far all the exciting ones Ive come across have been sold at a price higher than I was willing to go - but ... well the journey is the destination and all that :)

"professionally refinished in a custom color"

dumb question, but "custom" means ..." other than the colors it came in originally" right? Or does it refer to "custom" colors that fender put out those years?


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: