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Post subject: Identify this P-bass
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:12 am
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My father had an old '71 (according to http://www.guitardaterproject.org/fender.aspx) Precision bass on his basement so I decided I'd do something with it. I've always played guitar but after seeing this bass I decided to try learning bass. So here's the instrument:

https://plus.google.com/photos/11232106 ... 5ZGlif7FEQ

Right now I am in the middle of polishing the guitar, replacing the nut and cleaning the pots (they were cracking). Some pictures show how long this Bass hasn't been used by the amount of dust. I can assure you it looks a lot prettier now.

My dad doesn't know much about the instrument only that he bought it in 88, so I thought I'd ask you about this Precision bass. Can anyone help me identify this bass and tell me what the estimated value is?

Thanks!


Last edited by handyface on Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Identify this '71 bass
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:59 am
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To get it authenticated you'd need to check the date codes and that requires taking it apart. Though I have to be honest. The fact that the thumb rest is on the bass side of the strings means that it's not a 71. (unless the pickguard was replaced and the rest relocated. Which is certainly possible) It looks more like a 74-76 to my eye, but that's meaningless. Again, to really get in the ballpark you need to look at the neck, body and pot dates (assuming they are original) and take the most recent of them. Now, my completely worthless assessment of it being a mid to late 70's Precision in pretty good shape would mean you could likely fetch a couple of grand for it as long as it's all original besides the BAII.

HOWEVER, that neck looks awful narrow. Like A width 70's P bass narrow. Which if that is the case will make it much more rare, and therefore worth more. To collectors and players who dig vintage P basses but prefer the narrower neck. Good luck, I'm sure someone with much more knowledge will be along shortly! She's a beauty and despite prevailing wisdom. Some of those mid to late 70's Precisions can be real gems!

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Post subject: Re: Identify this '71 bass
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:10 am
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Thanks for the quick reply. The '71 date came from typing in the serial number at [http://www.guitardaterproject.org/fender.aspx]. Maybe I don't know whether that info is reliable. So you're saying in order to know more I need to screw the neck off the body? Right now (as I am waiting for a new nut to arrive) there are no strings on the bass so I might as well screw it off. Though I've never done that before. Is it dangerous or difficult to take it off and put it back? Any tips?

I guess the Badass Bass bridge has been on the bass before '88 since my dad assumed it was original. Excuse my ignorance. As this guitar is almost double my age and I am not originally a bass player ;)


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Post subject: Re: Identify this '71 bass
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:33 am
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It's not really dangerous. It's just not something you want to do all the time. The neck code will only give you part of the puzzle. As far as looking up Fender serial numbers. Early Fender, and even CBS Fender were pretty bad at serial numbers. In reality "serial number" isn't even really the correct way to call what they did, or even what many manufacturers still do. "Serial" means literally means to belong to a series and denotes sequence. However, in the early days of manufacturing this was rarely strictly adhered to and as such what we now call serial numbers are really just unique numbers assigned to any individual piece of a certain type of product, and not actually sequential. (ie: David Gilmour's 001 Strat isn't the first production run Stratocaster. Early Precision basses from the 50's are notoriously all over the place)

For instance, from the Fender site in regards to product dating...

"200,000s to 300,000s 1969 to 1970
300,000s 1971 to 1972
300,000s to 500,000s 1973
400,000s to 500,000s 1974 to 1975"

So according to Fender your bass could be a 1969 to a 1973. Again, 73 being the most likely as the thumb rest is in the bass side position. (Again, this could have been changed and was very often. However, the original holes are not on the treble side tugbar position. So if the guard is original. The it's not a 71) However, I believe that change was "official" in 1974 models. So in all likelihood if the guard is original then you are probably looking at a "1974" model year that was built in late 73.

Again, to really narrow it down you'd need to check all 3 dates. (if original and since the pots were crackling I'm guessing they are) Then take the most recent date as your guide line to it being built sometime soon after that date.

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Post subject: Re: Identify this P-bass
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:41 pm
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So much for drawing conclusions too quickly.. The pots seem to be dated 1980, If I am correct. However I can't find any dates on the heel or the neck. I have updated the album with pictures of the disassembled bass. Any suggestions? :)


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Post subject: Re: Identify this P-bass
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:02 pm
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I just unscrewed the Pickups and found out that one of the wires was pretty much loose and held by a simple piece of tape. The other contact points seem to have some sort of silicone on it. I presume that's not the way it's supposed to be? (see pictures)


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Post subject: Re: Identify this P-bass
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:30 pm
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When I get home later tonight I will take a look, but pot dating is better left to the guys with a lot of experience like Brotherdave. As far as tape and silicone without looking at the pics I would say no. That's not stock.

However, don't feel too bad if that turns out to be the case. That's not to say you don't have a really awesome player grade 70's Precision. They only go for around a grand or a little bit more. However, for genres like classic punk and hard rock those old 70's P's are really hard to beat. I used to own a 78 and if I was still playing punk that would certainly be my weapon of choice.

Also, do me a favor and measure the nut width on the bass. Even if it's a player grade bass with mods if it has a stock A width P neck that will add to the value in certain circles.

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Post subject: Re: Identify this P-bass
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:02 pm
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Don't worry, I don't feel bad at all! It's a nice bass and I am looking forward to playing on it. I am going to have to resolder the pickups and reasemble the guitar first. The Nut width is around 39.5mm


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Post subject: Re: Identify this P-bass
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:42 pm
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Well, "around" is kind of funky when it comes to nut width. If it's exactly 1 and 9/16 (39.5) then it's in between an A and B width. (A very rare and sought after neck) If it's just a hair less than 39.5 then it's an A width. (1.5) Or if it's just a hair more 1 and 5/8 then it's a standard B width. If you're just going to play it then I wouldn't worry about it.

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Post subject: Re: Identify this P-bass
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:11 pm
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Currently there's no nut in the slot. I measured the width of the slot with an ibanez guitar toolkit (0.5mm precision) and it is 39.3 - 39.6mm. Definitely not more/less than that.

You're right about the fact that it might not be important for playing, but I like to know where my guitars come from and what specs they have. Especially when they're this old. Though the estimated value would be somewhat important so I know what to pay the previous owner. Though he says he is fine with €1000, I think that might be a bit low.


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Post subject: Re: Identify this P-bass
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:44 pm
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Oh wow I see the problem here. You mentioned that the bass has '73 thumbrest screwholes. But when you look behind the pickguard you see screwholes for the thumbrest on the G string side. So that probably means the pickguard got replaced. And the body might indeed be from 1971 as the guitar dater project suggests. Now the neck seems to be an odd width. And has no real serial number on it. I see some faint traces of green, but it all seems too faded (similar to this video on 6:00). The back of the neck has this weird curly scribble (also similar to that video 6:10).

Also the neck joint contains a circular stamp with "5 700" on it. Also, there's 'Reza' stamped on it. just like this video on 6:27. That's all I can see for now.

So right now to me it looks like I've got a '71 bass body and neck (according to the guitar dater project and the similarities on the video), with a '74+ pickguard (because of the thumb rest screws), and '80's pots (according to http://home.provide.net/~cfh/pots.html). If this is true, then the guitar might have had way more transformations than I initially thought.


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Post subject: Re: Identify this P-bass
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:43 pm
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The one pot I'm sure about reads from the 20th week of 1980. The other one....I can't see the code due solder. It is possible the pots were replaced but more likely that the entire pickguard assembly was swapped out sometime after the 20th week of 1980 which would account for the finger rest irregularity and the pot code not correlating to the serial date. The neck plate does date to 1971 however....and as pointed out that is absolutely not a 71 pickguard. The original bridge is gone and maybe the original pickups also, but really can't say for sure about the pickups. The tone cap looks original but they used that cap for 30 years. All that is obviously an absolute known fact here is that someone did some parts swapping.

There is no way that neck plate goes with that pot code or with the pickguard. That body does not go with that pickguard either. A BLACK P-Bass came with a WHITE pickguard in 1971. Without a neck date code it is really hard to tell what is what or how it came to be this way. The body neck pocket inspection stamping by "I REZA" and the other inspection stamp both appear normal for an early 70's Fender. I have seen this same "I REZA" stamp many times. So the body appears genuine early 70's correct and the paint stick mark seems to indicate no refinish.

The headstock decal photo is not well lit. If it was a 71 neck then the FENDER logo should have GOLD edging. I have blown up your photos and I simply can not see any gold edging to the logo at all, but they are poorly lit and a bit fuzzy so it could be there and it is just not showing up on my laptop. If there is NO gold outline on the FENDER logo it is absolutely NOT a 1971 neck. In 72 the gold edging went away for a while and in 77 the serial moved to headstock under the FENDER logo. So if the headstock decal is original the neck is a 72 to 76 neck, not a 71.

What you have here is a parts bass, assembled from some genuine Fender parts and some aftermarket parts from at least 2 or possibly more instruments. Both pots have the Fender part number as I can read enough of the part number on both pots to make that out, so they came from Fullerton and are probably original to that guard which also appears genuine.

In one angled photo of the neck paddle I thought I saw inspection and neck code sticker residue on the pocket side of the neck paddle but that can't possibly be if that headstock decal is legit since they didn't start using those score lined serial/inspection stickers until 1980 and the headstock should also have a serial number. HOWEVER, if the headstock decal is a reproduction the neck might also be 1980 like the guard and the sticker either fell off or was removed to conceal the neck's actual origin date in an effort to pass the entire thing off as a 71, which it of course is not. If sticker residue is there that explains the complete absence of any a faint, smudged, unreadable neck code stamping on the neck butt.

Without looking at it in person it is really hard to tell what this thing is and even if I had it in hand I'm not sure what I could tell you further. The body might be a 71 to 78, neckplate dates are frequently off by a year or even two in some cases, so the neckplate could be original to the body but without gold edging on the Fender logo the neck plate is most likely not original to the neck. The neck MIGHT be a 1980 neck with a repro decal if that actually is sticker residue I'm seeing. It SURE looks like sticker residue in one photo, but really with these photos it is hard to tell an awful lot except generalities.

The pickguard assembly including electronics is all probably from 1980 because many colors including even SUNBURST got black/white/black 3 ply guards in 1980. Black P-Bass pickguards were super common in 1980 so I'm guessing the pots are both 1980 and were on the guard when the guard shipped on some real Fender P-Bass.

As to value, it has no collector class value whatsoever. As a player class bass assembled from a collection of spare parts with conflicting dates and the obvious non-original parts and possibly dubious headstock decal, it is worth about $1,100 US Dollars here retail and about $600 cash at the most to a dealer who would want to resell it for $1,100. In a private party sale $600 to $850 sounds fair if it sounds and plays good.

Don't get me wrong, this bass may make a good player, but it is not stock and the dates are conflicting. So, it is just not worth as much as you might think from the neckplate date which says 1971 but little else does. The neckplate is probably the most valuable thing on it.


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Post subject: Re: Identify this P-bass
Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:38 am
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That was very helpful! So it looks like this bass has been assembled from different parts. Which drops the collector's value but luckily for me I have no intention of selling it. I am actually right in the middle of buying it to learn bass on. The Fender neck logo has got a golden outline, only very faint due to the bass having hung right above a smoker for quite some years. The headstock looks like it has a sunburst of his own now that I have cleaned most of it off.

About the sticker on the back of the headstock: I peeled that off last week. It was a sticker of a music store in The Hague. Probably the one my dad bought it from. It was all old and dirty so I took it off. What does this info say about the neck?

Now for the pickups, I can't seem to find any dating or marking on there. Is there any way to find out which ones they are? OR is there just no difference?

Judging by your info the bass is intended to be a players bass. So I guess I will have to do that justice and fix some of the sloppy solder work, fit a new nut and play away!


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Post subject: Re: Identify this P-bass
Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:08 am
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Be careful of the designation "players grade" as it gets thrown around on this forum.

You may have a legitimate 1971 Fender bass in black which was a custom color for that year and if so your bass is worth way more than $1100.00 bucks! Just check Bass Northwest for listings of vintage Fenders that would be considered " players grade" for some big money.

Pickguards, pots and bridges get replaced but they also can be replaced with original parts from that year and all of a sudden you have an original bass. People are selling restored parts basses all over the internet for big bucks and why shouldn't you?

Even if you keep the bass and hand it down to your son or daughter, it appears to be an original custom color finish Fender bass and it will appreciate in value over time. Note that it is already 43 years old.

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Post subject: Re: Identify this P-bass
Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:32 pm
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Thanks for your input, PCbassman. I think I am going to put the thing back together and enjoy it. For now I am going to assume it's a custom color black 71 P-bass body+neck with new ~'80s electronics (pickups are still uncertain) and pickguard. Whenever I see a nice 71 pickguard and/or electronics pop-up on e-bay I will definitely restore it to it's original state. But by now the electronics are still considered antique. It's still 11 years before I was born! Which is amazing.

Thanks for all your input, I've learned a lot! If anyone still has information and would like to share it with me (the neck, the pickups, the color or value) feel free! I really enjoy learning more about this beauty :)


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