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Post subject: Fender USA Standard 80's era Fullerton production model
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:54 am
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I have an '84 vintage white Fullerton USA Standard P bass w/ maple neck (June 16th 1984 stamped on neck heel, and 1378411 pots.) It looks like it has the "squarish" mylar orange drop cap (?) At least that is what I am thinking, it could be poly though. I got it "new old stock" at a guitar show.

These are good sounding, and playing basses. IMHO the build quality is pretty good, although mine has the dreaded gap at the side of the neck pocket where it should tightly meet the body, and the wiring is cheesy- with the wire insulation coming apart a little. I also wonder if these basses could benefit from some shielding in the pickup cavity, at least.

There are some unique things about these Fullerton USA Standard basses that I have never seen before, or since. The obvious white pickup covers, the single ply pickguard with 15 holes, and the neck profile. I also wonder about the body profile, compared to maybe one of the custom shop re-issue precisions coming out of Fullerton. I don't have anything to compare that with, or evidence in that regard. I am just wondrin'... (?)

The neck profile, I have seen referred to as a "pancake" neck. It is wide and flat. I have always been curious about that. Looking at a neck profile chart, it is like a modern flat oval, or a flat C. I have also found a chart at http://proguitarshop.com/andyscorner/fr ... -explained , that shows a profile of what he is calling a D shape. That actually seems more accurate.

If anyone out there has more information about this neck profile, or these production basses, I would like to hear from you.

These production basses from the last days of the Fullerton factory, are not that easy to find although I see a few here and there. I like mine a lot and would like to find a J bass from that era with those same features.

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Last edited by hubcapserf on Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:51 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Fender USA Standard 80's era Fullerton production model
Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:59 pm
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Post subject: Re: Fender USA Standard 80's era Fullerton production model
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:46 pm
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Hi hubcapserf, Any photos of the "cheesy wiring" that you describe? It should have the cloth covered wiring which may look cheesy but actually was quite easy to work with and has a very high silver content.

At some point in 1984 Fender/CBS started using Sprague Mylar Orange Drop caps in tone circuits of some passive instruments at Fullerton. These will be stamped with a two line stamp. The top line is the value and voltage such as ".047 200v." The second line is the tolerance factor followed by the Sprague type number reading like "+/- 10%" followed by a "2" inside a circle, which is the Sprague hallmark, and right after that Sprague origin hallmark comes "P225X" which is the Sprague type number indicating a Mylar Orange Drop. Sprague Mylar caps still use that same "225" type designation today. These cost a few cents more than cheaper alternatives like ceramic. But ceramics had gone out of production and the sources for them had dried up, so the remaining ceramic disc caps were probably reserved for the launch of the newly conceived Vintage Reissue Series which all have the vintage ceramic discs. The Mylar Orange Drop is a good smooth sounding tone capacitor and I'd absolutely leave it totally alone. Some people like them better than ceramics, including me.

If it is a boxy looking Sprague orange colored cap then it is Mylar. Poly Orange Drops are more tubular than rectangular or squarish and would never be confused with a Mylar. They didn't use Sprague Poly Orange Drop tone control caps that I've ever seen at Fullerton. How and why the Poly Orange Drops became such a popular aftermarket cap is a puzzle. They inject some harmonic distortion but less of it than a ceramic. The Mylar is almost as distortion free as a Paper In Oil Vitamin-Q type. My ear struggles to tell any difference between Vitamin-Q and Mylar. I'd be hard pressed to pick them out in otherwise identical instruments using the same very clean preamp.

While some people say that they were using up any old in stock parts near the end, I was "straightened out" quite emphatically on that by someone working at Fender Fullerton in the end time. It would have had the exact parts specified or it would not have shipped even up till the very last day of mass production. This person assured me any conjecture to the contrary is salesman hype trying to unload a modified instrument while claiming it is stock because near the end it was "anything goes" and they had to use up all the parts they had. Just not true at all.

This cap spec was changed from ceramic to Mylar for some reason, probably to preserve the existing inventory of ceramics for use in the Vintage Reissues which became the most desirable and collectible of any 1980's Fullerton instruments.

Yes you can copper foil shield one of these, but I seldom mess with it on a passive P-Bass because the humbucking split pickup makes it unnecessary as a general rule. Fortunately copper foil shielding of the pickup and control cavities is completely removable and does not require any desoldering, so it will not harm collectible value. Still I'd probably leave it as is unless it is generating some noise it shouldn't. They should be very quiet stock. Now the Jazz or a P/J is a very different story, but the Standard P-Bass I'd usually recommend leaving alone.


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Post subject: Re: Fender USA Standard 80's era Fullerton production model
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:08 am
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Thanks for your input Brotherdave, I was kind of surprised to hear you say that these should have cloth wiring. Wish it did.

I said the wiring was "cheesy", not only because the insulation is coming apart, but, when I pulled the PUP's out to put some tubing on the screws, 3 of the 4 wires broke off of the solder joint on the PUP. I don't mean the solder came loose, I mean the wire broke in half at the solder joint- from being (gently) moved around. Doh. Luckily, I am pretty good at soldering, but still, now it looks like the PUP's have been removed, and they haven't.

The cap reads .022 microfarad, 200DC volt, and is a 225PX mylar. It has the "circled 2", so yeah, Sprague.

As far as shielding goes, the PUP's are quiet, except when I touch one of the pole pieces, then it buzzes. I have read that putting clear coat nail polish on them will help that. I thought maybe some shielding may help (?)

Any thoughts about the neck profile? Probably a modern "C", although it seems very flat.
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Last edited by hubcapserf on Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Fender USA Standard 80's era Fullerton production model
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:57 pm
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The wire is dry rotted. I have an 83 STD P. The neck is fat like you describe. The bass has the average "clank" sound of an 80's P bass and I'm pretty sure I don't have cloth wire-- but I think the same cap is in mine. Don't put finger nail polish on the pole pieces. By the looks of that wire you should redo all the wiring including the bridge ground. The sound when touching the poles will go away if you re- wire the bass. If you leave it like that it will still be original but I guarentee you'll have more problems with noise and stuff just plain not working.


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Post subject: Re: Fender USA Standard 80's era Fullerton production model
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:04 am
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hubcapserf wrote:
it seems very flat.


CBS did a couple of guitars and basses with 12''-inch radius necks before closing the Fullerton plant and selling Fender to the late Bill Schultz.


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Post subject: Re: Fender USA Standard 80's era Fullerton production model
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:34 pm
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I'm pretty sure my 83 is a 12- .radius


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Post subject: Re: Fender USA Standard 80's era Fullerton production model
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:13 am
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I think those are sometimes referred to as "D" profile necks. They are also sometimes referred to as "pancake" or "blade" necks.

I know some 84 Strats/Teles were still getting cloth covered wiring in early 94 models but maybe like the ceramic disc caps they changed specs to reserve the cloth covered wire inventory for the Vintage Reissues soon to come.

That wiring insulation looks like it has actually been baked but the solder joints look original. I'd replace it like Stoker said and then reevaluate whether you need copper foil shielding in the cavities before doing that as it is time consuming and tedious. I'd order the vintage cloth wire from someplace like Guitar Parts Resource dot com because it is easier to work with. About 3 feet of black and 3 feet of white is more than enough. The people doing the wiring at Fender had rather work with it too probably. You don't strip it, just slide or "push back" the cloth. Easy and fast. If the pots and jack seem ok, leave them in. Do as neat a job desoldering as possible. I'd finish by spraying the pots with Deoxit and then spraying some on a q-tip and scrubbing the contacts on the jack.

Also if you ever de-solder that Mylar cap, be sure to clip a heat sink on the lead ahead of the cap body. Mylar caps are more sensitive to heat than any other type of tone cap and will fail if overheated. I don't think you'll need to de-solder it for a rewiring job in this case though.


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Post subject: Re: Fender USA Standard 80's era Fullerton production model
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:45 am
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Another tip= "tin" the wire. Dip or apply some flux to the bare wire then put some molten solder (not a lot) on it and let it wick into the braid. Then go on about your business soldering like any other time except now your wire is well preparred.. The "tinned" wire takes hold faster/better when hooking up. You'll spend less time adding all that heat from the iron to the delicate pots . caps and switches.


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Post subject: Re: Fender USA Standard 80's era Fullerton production model
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:55 am
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brotherdave wrote:
...That wiring insulation looks like it has actually been baked but the solder joints look original. I'd replace it like Stoker said and then reevaluate whether you need copper foil shielding in the cavities before doing that as it is time consuming and tedious. I'd order the vintage cloth wire from someplace like Guitar Parts Resource dot com because it is easier to work with. About 3 feet of black and 3 feet of white is more than enough.

Allparts sells a cloth wiring "kit" that is cut lengths of wire. I just push the cloth back and use an alligator clip to hold it in place when soldering, that works good.

About the wire having been baked. I do have something going on with that circuit on the volume pot. You can see from the picture that the pot is heating up by the color change of the pot itself. I am the original owner of the bass, and this is only time the cover has been off, there have never been any changes done. What could be the cause of this?
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Post subject: Re: Fender USA Standard 80's era Fullerton production model
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:14 am
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stroker vance wrote:
Another tip= "tin" the wire. Dip or apply some flux to the bare wire then put some molten solder (not a lot) on it and let it wick into the braid. Then go on about your business soldering like any other time except now your wire is well preparred.. The "tinned" wire takes hold faster/better when hooking up. You'll spend less time adding all that heat from the iron to the delicate pots . caps and switches.


1+

I de-solder using a copper braid, and clean the contacts with alcohol. Then, always tin the tip of the iron, and the wire.


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Post subject: Re: Fender USA Standard 80's era Fullerton production model
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:23 pm
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I have a solder sucking bulb. I used to have one of those nice spring loaded solder suckers at work. I have the copper wick braid stuff too. It's all good !


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Post subject: Re: Fender USA Standard 80's era Fullerton production model
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:36 am
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You bass looks like a 1983-84 by its specifications. That's the only time Fender did the all white pick guards and pickups on every model. I own a Jazz bass from 1983 and I can tell you that the wiring harness was originally plastic insulation just like yours is showing and it has all white pickups and a one piece white pick guard.

The volume pot may be discolored because it was a more reactive pot or it was worked on at the store where you bought the bass.

I would only replace the wiring that has gone bad and I would rec. that you replace it with plastic insulated wire so that it looks original. Too many basses are being done in cloth wire and it is not correct for this year Fender bass.
Every Fender bass is potentially collectible and your bass is now appreciating in value since it is over 30 years old.

The body dimensions on these 1983-84 basses reflect the influence of the Vintage reissue basses so their contours are more pronounced that what was common in Fender basses of the late 70's.
The bodies are the same as the Vintage reissues.
I like this change and I feel it makes for a more comfortable bass.

The Precision necks of that year are all very wide and shallow just like the necks on the Elite models of that time period.

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Post subject: Re: Fender USA Standard 80's era Fullerton production model
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:47 pm
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BCbassman wrote:
...I would only replace the wiring that has gone bad and I would rec. that you replace it with plastic insulated wire so that it looks original.


I completely agree with that. I already got the wire.

After I replace the bad wire, I am going to take the control harness- with pickups still attached, out, and set them aside, and then go from there.

I am still curious about what could be baking that wire. It just doesn't seem normal.

Thanks BCbassman for your input.

Does your '83 J have the 3 screw bridge also?


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Post subject: Re: Fender USA Standard 80's era Fullerton production model
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:25 pm
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What baked the wire was time and air conditions over time. It's natural aging in some cases like in Florida or other harsh climates. I've seen all kinds of rotton wire in the warehouse of the factory I worked at. It just happens in some cases over time. With the rotted wire there can be corrosion on the wire inside the casing that you can't see- that's why I mentioned replacing all of it.


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