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Post subject: Swapping American Deluxe tuners for Vintage
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:57 am
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Hey everyone,

I've poked around on line and I haven't been able to find any discussions on this. As my quest for a Custom Shop Precision fell through I have been scouring the used market to find something that suits me. I came to the realization that if I really wanted I could probably get two used CS P Basses for the price of the new one I was going to have built that Fender decided they didn't want to do. So while I will definitely still be in the market for a used 51 or 55. I've been eyeballing the two CS limited edition Cabronita models.

I've found a real good deal on a used Boracho which has the reversed Jazzmaster body, the 51 Precision neck. However, it unfortunately comes with medium jumbo frets. This seems to be a "thing" with Fender's custom shop lately. Even their last series of "51 Precisions" had medium jumbo frets. Maybe these cats should go work at Sadowsky and stop ruining perfectly good Fender designs?

However, I can live with the frets, but one thing that was very disappointing is that both the Porazzo and the Boracho is equipped with those awful American Deluxe tuning machines instead of the trusty vintage reverse tuners.

SO my question to those with some experience. Are the tuning machines easily swappable? If it's just a matter of removing the Deluxe machines and drilling the 4 holes for the vintage models then I'm totally down. However, I'm wondering if the posts are the same? I don't want to have to route or fill the headstock to make the swap. Anyone have any idea?

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Post subject: Re: Swapping American Deluxe tuners for Vintage
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:07 pm
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I've done a bunch of those switch-outs. Most times I've made the holes in the headstock bigger to match the size of the barrels/ rings on the vintage reverse tuners. Then 8 small routes in the proper place in the back of the headstock for the tabs on the inside face of the tuner plates so they will lay flush down on the back of the headstock. I drill the holes for the 16 small screws by hand with a tiny drill bit. The tuners must be lined up properly . I do it with a straight edge . I do not know your skill level at working on such things as installing tuners etc.. All I can tell you is that it's not hard to screw it up and I take all the time I need to do it right. You'd be screwed if you broke the tiny drill bit with it still in the hole for instance. Everything needs to be lined up exact or it will look like a hack job. Maybe you may want me to do it for you or you could have a repair guy do it. I'm kind of busy anyway. I wouldn't know what to charge either- maybe $100.

Another thing is-- you may be talking about different tuners. The ones without the tabs are a little easier to do but drilling etc. is still requiered.

OH-- another thing-- I use wax from a candle on all the screws. I've had one of those little screws break off before when installing the tuners to the headstock. That was not fun. Maple is very hard. I always scrape screws across a candle when putting them in a newley drilled hole. Oh geez-- I'll remember something else as soon as I'm done typing. ........the next tip is $5.00....... :D


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Post subject: Re: Swapping American Deluxe tuners for Vintage
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:06 am
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stroker vance wrote:
I've done a bunch of those switch-outs. Most times I've made the holes in the headstock bigger to match the size of the barrels/ rings on the vintage reverse tuners. Then 8 small routes in the proper place in the back of the headstock for the tabs on the inside face of the tuner plates so they will lay flush down on the back of the headstock. I drill the holes for the 16 small screws by hand with a tiny drill bit. The tuners must be lined up properly . I do it with a straight edge . I do not know your skill level at working on such things as installing tuners etc.. All I can tell you is that it's not hard to screw it up and I take all the time I need to do it right. You'd be screwed if you broke the tiny drill bit with it still in the hole for instance. Everything needs to be lined up exact or it will look like a hack job. Maybe you may want me to do it for you or you could have a repair guy do it. I'm kind of busy anyway. I wouldn't know what to charge either- maybe $100.

Another thing is-- you may be talking about different tuners. The ones without the tabs are a little easier to do but drilling etc. is still requiered.

OH-- another thing-- I use wax from a candle on all the screws. I've had one of those little screws break off before when installing the tuners to the headstock. That was not fun. Maple is very hard. I always scrape screws across a candle when putting them in a newley drilled hole. Oh geez-- I'll remember something else as soon as I'm done typing. ........the next tip is $5.00....... :D


Hahaha, yeah. I don't know if this is "beyond" my skill level, but it would certainly be beyond my comfort level on a Custom Shop neck. I'm not a big fan of taking wood out of instruments other than drilling holes for screws. They are making the new "Proto P" with the same neck but with the vintage tuners. The downside there is they have alder bodies instead of ash. Sign o' the times, I guess. The custom shop seems to think they can improve on perfection. smdh. Thanks for the low down. If this was a MIM neck I might take a swipe at learning the new skill. Doing it on a Custom Shop neck is kind of like learning to drive stick on a brand new Porsche. Probably not the best idea. :shock:

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2012 Fender Custom Shop 55 Precision Bass
2012 Fender American Vintage 57 Precision Bass RI
2014 Fender Super Bassman and Bassman 100T/410 Neo


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Post subject: Re: Swapping American Deluxe tuners for Vintage
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:03 pm
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I hear ya' on that. I'd prob not mess with a custom shop anything. Too bad about the alder. I prefer ash also but most of my basses are alder. A couple are the agathis wood and I'm not quite sure but I think that's related to basswood or notsogood wood.


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Post subject: Re: Swapping American Deluxe tuners for Vintage
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:51 pm
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King, I am working a Precision project right now and am swapping tuners from a Nate Mendel neck to vintage reversed type. I don't think I can give any more constructive advise than Stoker did but what I do suggest is Gotoh Resolite vintage reverse style tuners. Helps greatly with neck-dive issues for sure and they look very similar to Fender's vintage reverse tuners....just a LOT lighter. Since my project is a mild relic, I also gave the Gotohs an acid fume treatment to patina/dull them until they looked very close to the Custom Shops relic'd tuners, and they took it well (just with no CS fake rust which I don't care for).

I prefer and am used to long stem, reverse wind Fender tuners and the Gotohs do a great job of replacing them. I hear you about the vintage fret wire also as the Nate M is medium jumbo but I wish they were vintage size. Nothing like a neck slide over that thinner fret wire!
Good luck with your quest.

-Joe


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Post subject: Re: Swapping American Deluxe tuners for Vintage
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:58 am
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Interesting. I'm really tempted to try and order one of these "Proto P's" from The CS now, instead of the Single Coil like I had planned. They are MUCH cheaper than a 55 Precision as a platform, and I could change all the options I don't like in the build. Simply swap the Medium Jumbos for Vintage, and the Alder body for Ash. Maybe do a really sharp trans finish in the Nitro to make it stand out. Hmmmm.... though it would be front routed like a 51-55 and not rear routed like the Cabronita. That might be cool, though. I could have them leave the guard off and get a custom cut Cabronita style guard with the slot cut for the control plate. It'd really be something special. It would probably also cost a grand less than the 55 I was going to order. :shock:

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2012 Fender Custom Shop 55 Precision Bass
2012 Fender American Vintage 57 Precision Bass RI
2014 Fender Super Bassman and Bassman 100T/410 Neo


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Post subject: Re: Swapping American Deluxe tuners for Vintage
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:37 pm
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jazzbassjo wrote:
King, I am working a Precision project right now and am swapping tuners from a Nate Mendel neck to vintage reversed type. I don't think I can give any more constructive advise than Stoker did but what I do suggest is Gotoh Resolite vintage reverse style tuners. Helps greatly with neck-dive issues for sure and they look very similar to Fender's vintage reverse tuners....just a LOT lighter. Since my project is a mild relic, I also gave the Gotohs an acid fume treatment to patina/dull them until they looked very close to the Custom Shops relic'd tuners, and they took it well (just with no CS fake rust which I don't care for).

I prefer and am used to long stem, reverse wind Fender tuners and the Gotohs do a great job of replacing them. I hear you about the vintage fret wire also as the Nate M is medium jumbo but I wish they were vintage size. Nothing like a neck slide over that thinner fret wire!
Good luck with your quest.

-Joe





Okay- I've used etching acid to age parts but not with fumes. Chrome is very hard to age . Or is it? I've had to really work at it.
How does the fume thing work??


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Post subject: Re: Swapping American Deluxe tuners for Vintage
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:23 pm
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Is the American Deluxe caught off the Northeast coast? And, in the vintage the stuff that's already in the cans?


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