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Post subject: 62 avri neck issues
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:34 pm
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I picked up this sweet Olympic white 62 reissue and love it but the action is so high. I had a shop set it up but they said the truss rod is as tight as it will go. They said it's right in spec with what fender says but still it's to high.

I removed the strings and found the neck bowed backwards, so that means the truss rod is super tight!! I put a shim in the neck pocket, put the neck on, tuned it up. The action is 10 times better but it seems the string tension is off. With them off the neck bows backwards, put them on an tune it and neck has a slight concave? No buzz, dead spots , etc but I've been searching now on different string tensions.

I have no idea what these strings are and it's time to maybe try some low tension strings to get rid of the concave? Does this make sense? I can't tweak the truss rod anymore. With lower string tension I may have to loosen the truss rod a bit.


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Post subject: Re: 62 avri neck issues
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:47 pm
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Based on how you've described the problem, I think your plan is sound. Try a set with a G no thicker than 45 and an E no thicker than 100. When I'm looking for low-medium tension, my go-to set is Rotosound's RS66LC. See my short review at Amazon. I just pulled a set of (horrid-sounding) white DR neons off my Cabronita & replaced them with an RS66LC set. Night and day difference, and the neck loves them.

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Post subject: Re: 62 avri neck issues
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:37 pm
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This is a very interesting post because these necks are noted for stability. If you bought this used it might have been messed up before you bought it.

You had it set up at a shop and didn't put new strings on it? I'm confused. Usually a setup is done when a new and different string set is installed.

I'd find a different tech and get this ironed out. Avoid high tension strings. Mid tension probably is ok. Find one set and stick to it.

The design of the string core has more to do with tension than the outer winding diameter does. Hex core string sets of smaller gauges can have higher tension than round core string sets of larger gauges.

The reason I say to try another tech is you obviously didn't get a pleasing setup the first time and probably would not be any happier the second time either so don't throw good money after bad. A savvy tech can make it play like butter. Spacers (washer type devices) can often be installed to extend the truss rod function if it is maxed out.

Once it is setup LEAVE IT ALONE. Putting strings on, taking all of them off and putting them back on again is a lot of tension extremes for the neck to go through in a short period of time. Huge tension fluctuation like is one thing I try to avoid. Keep doing that and you'll never have a stable neck.

So once you get it setup correctly then only change one string at a time when doing future string changes yourself and only use the exact same set and you may get by with only very minor intonation adjustments or even no adjustments at all. I do this with all my instruments. They always get the same string set over and over and over. If I want to change the string set then I take it to the tech to get it done.

Where I've had neck issues it was because of the following reasons:
1. Ultra-High Tension Strings.
2. Some idiot do-it-yourself type did their own "setup" ruining the truss rod in the process or an inept "tech" did the same. The rod is broken, the nut is stripped, the nut is maxed out or the nut is cross-threaded. Not everyone who calls themselves a "tech" is actually good at setting up basses. Some are better than others and some are great on guitar but less so at bass setups. Find one good at bass setups. It is a good idea to ask top players around your area about who is good and who isn't.
3. Changing string types and tensions every few weeks. This literally can cause premature failure of the truss rod system due over adjustment which wears out the threads on the rod or the threads inside the nut causing slippage. If you adjust the truss rod and a few seconds later hear a pop that is slippage. Truss rods are adjustable but not infinitely adjustable forever. Tension should be partially relieved temporarily on the neck while any truss rod adjustment is made. Never adjust the truss rod with full string tension on the neck, instead temporarily relieve most or at least SOME of the tension by pulling a tad on the headstock while turning the nut because if you don't you can prematurely wear the threads on the both the nut and the rod.

Many people here are fully capable of setting up their own instruments however not everyone is capable of doing a "plays like butter" setup. If the tech says "it measures to factory spec" and it still plays like crap, there's your sign you should get another tech.

I can do setups on my instruments but actually prefer to use a tech I know who is way better at it than I am. Yes he is expensive, but frankly worth it. It is as much art as science. Feeler gauges are a tool, but not as good a tool as the feel in skilled fingers. Feel has as much to do with it as any measurement, which is where the art comes in. A good tech will ask you initially what type setup you want and ask HOW YOU PLAY. A pick setup, a finger style setup and a slap setup can be 3 different things.

A Fender American Vintage Reissue is probably NOT a good place to learn do-it-yourself setup. Ask around and find a better tech for this nicer instrument and then get a cheap Asian one to practice your own setup skills upon. I'd rather see you ruin a cheap starter instrument than an AVRI. It sounds like your AVRI needs some TLC by someone with lots of experience ironing out issues.


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Post subject: Re: 62 avri neck issues
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:07 am
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Dave is spot on as always. That being said. I love a bit higher action on a bass. As far as setting up a bass and not putting new strings on it? I get that. I play flats and I never change them. However, I agree that AVS necks should likely rarely need adjusting. Unless of course the bass is subject to extreme changes like fluctuating string tension as you point out or temperature and humidity.

Even my old 51 NEVER got a full set up after it's initial one. Sure I had to check the intonation now and then, but I never had to go back to the neck. I had the same set of flats on that bass for 6.5 years and the initial set up was all it ever got in regards to the neck. I live in a 4 season climate where winter can get pretty darn cold and that neck never, ever moved. I've only had my 57RI for a couple of months now. She had a killer set up already. So all I needed to do was change the strings to flats from the stock rounds one by one and do a couple of tweaks to get the intonation perfect. After that she's been rock solid. Love it.

Dave, I wonder if this is a case of someone trying to get a "Jamerson" type action and thinking the way to do that is to adjust the neck and not the bridge? This is seriously a shame if the neck is maxed out. While I can do my own set up, and even pick up swaps, and the like. In the past year with my Classic 70's and Antigua FSR I started treating myself to good tech work from the only guy I trust in the area. We gigged super heavy last year and the old "saving money" excuse just disappeared. I liked the thought of being able to take it in and have it worked on my someone with a lot more experience than me. Someone who could do serious work. That being said, there are plenty of "techs" in this area I wouldn't let touch any of my basses.

To the OP. I hope this has a happy ending. Those basses are real gems. Good luck.

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Post subject: Re: 62 avri neck issues
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:58 am
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Yeah this bass had a really nice deep tone and the fit and finish is amazing. I'm going to get a set of low tension strings tonight, not sure what brand yet but I'll explain my case tonight at the guitar store and see what they recommend.

I've had a few fender basses now and never have a found a neck so out of wack. My dad always set up my guitars before and I've learned a lot from him and know when it's time to adjust a neck after all else is ruled out, like a loose bridge, neck plate screws or the saddles being to high. I got the guitar back from the shop and he had adjusted the E string saddle so that the barrel was bottomed out on the bring. To me that's not right. Even with the saddles almost maxed out the action was still high. I then put a shim in the neck pocket and brought the saddles up, adjusted until I had no buzz and it's almost perfect but the neck does still have a slight concave.

So my question is, with the strings off should the neck be bowed backwards? Once I put them on and tune it, its pulls it the other way but still not flat, looking down the neck, from about the 8th fret to the nut it starts to bow up.


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Post subject: Re: 62 avri neck issues
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:37 am
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With the strings off it bows toward the back side of the bass, and with them on it bows toward the front?! I'm just trying to get the picture right in my mind.

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Post subject: Re: 62 avri neck issues
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:57 am
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Yeah I know, it's weird to picture or try to explain it without pics. Yeah so with the strings off and the truss rod maxed out it bends towards the back of the bass, put the strings on and it pulls the headstock forward and almost to much. Shouldn't the neck be flat with the strings off, or maybe a slight bow backwards, mine looks like a banana with the strings off.


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Post subject: Re: 62 avri neck issues
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:14 am
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Well the neck should be at where ever you have the tension set with the strings off. Meaning that the tension of the strings will cause the neck to pull forward. The wood has a natural "resting" place. Which ideally is straight. The truss counteracts the tension of the neck, or helps it if the neck has a natural bow. So you would need a little bit of tension pulling the neck to the back. However, and let me stress this. I have NEVER seen a bass that looks as you've described. Normally even without strings the neck is only slightly pulled back. Especially on a monster vintage spec neck like the 62RI.

It's almost as if the truss itself is broken somehow and it's tension is maxed when there are no strings on it, but as soon as tension is place the rod "slips" and yanks the neck forward. In all my years of playing I've never seen that, and I've seen some pretty abused basses. I don't know what to tell you other than to take it to a certified Fender Service Center and be prepared for them to tell you that they will need to order you a replacement neck. Unless I'm just imagining it being much worse in my head.

I'd ask for pics, but I honestly don't want you to mess with it anymore. Yeah, My only advice is be prepared to replace the neck and take it to an authorized service center. If it's as bad as I'm picturing it then that's really the safest recourse. Good luck!

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Post subject: Re: 62 avri neck issues
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:16 am
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The only other thing I can imagine is that if this was previously owned that either as Dave suggests they maxed it out. Or they left it with tension applied with the truss rod and destrung. For a very extended period of time. What a shame, though. Man...

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Post subject: Re: 62 avri neck issues
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:27 am
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I'm going to try a new set of strings tonight and see if there is any difference. I've owned many basses as well and never had this problem. I did buy it used with super high action, the neck relief was way off. I figured a minor set up and it should be nice and low again, not the case at all.

I already contacted fender to get a replacement which would only be $500 or so, which I will pay no problem to have a brand new neck. The only problem is they don't have an 62avri's, the can get a 57' reissue. Ebay has many 62 mexican, crafted and made japan ones but I don't want to do that. I mean it still plays great and the action is somewhat low but still bothers me that the neck has a bow. Maybe low tension strings will help.


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Post subject: Re: 62 avri neck issues
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:58 am
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I believe the Stratosphere on Ebay is now parting out American Vintage Basses. Which is kind of sad when I think about it. Though the temptation is always there to slap a 58 neck on a 63 body. :| Not sure if they have any 62s, but last I knew they had at least one 57 so they might. They definitely have the current AVS basses parted out. Which, other than the difference between the old school thick lacquer treatment and the new thin flash lacquer treatment. They should pretty damn similar. Good luck, man. That's a damn shame that she's in rough shape.

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Post subject: Re: 62 avri neck issues
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:09 pm
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Every bass neck is different and it sounds like you have one that is prone to more flexing than what was the norm from your experience.

There are lots of things that can go wrong with a truss rod and there are lots of ways bass necks can naturally vary. They are made of different pieces of wood so there will always be some natural variation in stiffness and performance.

If you can get the bass playing reasonably well, I wouldn't worry about whether the neck was completely flat with no string tension. I also wouldn't worry that you have some relief in the neck when you have it strung up to tension. I would just play the bass.

If you are concerned that something is changing or that there is a problem with the truss rod, then have it checked out by a more reputable tech than the one you first used.

Good luck with your bass.

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Post subject: Re: 62 avri neck issues
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:43 pm
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I can't pull myself away from my original suspicion: that the current set's tension is too high. Nothing more. It's just a sense I have, and I admit I could be off. But there's nothing this neck is doing (that I can see, anyway) that suggests anything's wrong with it.

By any chance did the previous owner run this bass drop-tuned, and if so, might it have a set of drop-D strings on it? Those are usually extremely heavy gauge. If you try to tune those to standard tuning, you can wreak all kinds of havoc.

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Post subject: Re: 62 avri neck issues
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:17 am
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craig.p wrote:
I can't pull myself away from my original suspicion: that the current set's tension is too high. Nothing more. It's just a sense I have, and I admit I could be off. But there's nothing this neck is doing (that I can see, anyway) that suggests anything's wrong with it.

By any chance did the previous owner run this bass drop-tuned, and if so, might it have a set of drop-D strings on it? Those are usually extremely heavy gauge. If you try to tune those to standard tuning, you can wreak all kinds of havoc.



Good call! This may be the culprit!

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Post subject: Re: 62 avri neck issues
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:31 am
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So I ended up by D'addario chromes flatwounds, 45,65,80,100. Also I removed the neck to see what was going on with the truss rod. The truss rod nut so was tight or seized that it wouldn't move. I oil it a bit and waiting, got it to crack free which scared the crap out of me but it came off no problem.

Inspecting the nut, deep inside the last few threads looked stripped. I ended up putting a few washers down inside the truss rod and put the nut back on. Tightened up the nut just enough so the neck was flat with the strings off, put the the strings on, tuned it, stretched them, tuned it and did this a few more times. Got my ruler out and feeler guages, the neck has some relief to it but I'm happy with it. From going off fenders chart for relief and action it's right at the minium spec. I also love these strings!! They feel so good, they sound really fat, no string clacking or popping.

While I was picking up the strings yesterday, I checked out a few other bass necks, an american deluxe p-bass had a little bow to it and an american standard had the same, so basically it's normal to have a little bow to it. I also picked up a really nice looking squier jazz and looked down the neck from the body to the nut and it was like a sanke, s shaped!! Brand new hanging on the wall to. That would be a good buy.

Anyway thanks guys for the help and the problem with my bass was a little more in my head than a problem with the bass. Just buying something used with massive high action is a little scary. I always wanted a white p-bass and this being an avri, even better.


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