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Post subject: Re: Standard, Vintage 58 and Vintage 62 Pickups Comparison?
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:17 am
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JK457 wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
Also, these are just some of the "Standards" and a few well known oddballs. There are ALWAYS interesting exceptions that pop up. 57 and 58 P's with the soft V. 70's U shaped P necks. Fender guitarists talk about the "alchemy" of Fender necks all the time in regards to their guitars. However, the Precision bass has some really amazing history when it comes to necks. Some really incredible playing necks, and some real oddball "holy grail" type stuff. I can tell you that if I ever find a 57 split coil with a 56 spec neck I'd sell my soul for it. It doesn't get as much lip service, but if Brotherdave wanders in here he can give you TONS more info than I ever could.

They've written books about Fender basses, but I don't know if any have really ever delved deep enough. The Precision as an evolution is really something special. When it comes to necks there really is NO substitute for laying hands on a particular model. Until you've played a bunch of different specs you might never grasp it. The amount of diversity in even the current Fender Precision line up is pretty staggering.


Thanks so much for your input! Looks like I have some playing to do. At least I am now more comfortable and good at playing bass and better-informed than when I bought the Squier four months ago. Should be pretty easy to tell if that wider neck will work or not. I don't have much digit span, so could be a problem...or not, we'll see.

Went to the Guitar Center closest to me (smaller GC branch) and they had zero vintage P in stock. But the one in Hollywood has always been the main branch around here, maybe they have some AVS there. Played an American Standard today and it felt similar to the Squire except much better. Played it unplugged, though.

Will report back here when I get some pluck time on more basses. Would love to shine work tomorrow and fart around with this lol.



Sounds good. Enjoy the process. I have small, meaty hands and heavy fingers. You'd think a J bass would be ideal. However, I find the string spacing too cramped. Which leads to cramping in my hand. My main bass right now is my AVS 57RI. At first the neck was a bit "much" to get around on. However, I found I adapted to it rather quickly. Honestly the thing that kills me most is the modern radius. The flatter radii really wreaks havoc with my joints and tendons. I play better on my AVS 57 than I do any other bass I've owned even though the neck almost seems too big for my hands.

Also, if a neck is too thin it makes it "play wide". At least according to my hand. Meaning that my Classic 70's Precision is a killer bass with a B width neck, and vintage frets. However, it's a very thin modern C with a modern radius. So even though it's narrower than my 57RI by quite a bit. It feels wide in my hand because I have to stretch my hand into unnatural shapes to play it. Which causes me to fatigue quicker.

A full, vintage radius neck is more in line with the natural shape of most people's hands when they are relaxed. Even though for some things I play it's more work to deal with the wider neck. I cna play all day on my 57 RI and not get worn out.

Personally, my ideal neck is a first generation P neck from the 50's. B width, vintage radius, vintage frets. Which is why though I love my 57RI my next bass after selling my old FSR Antigua and Classic 70's Precisions will probably be a used CS 51 or 55 RI Precision.

Again, have an absolute blast on the adventure. You may play every P bass under the sun and end up back where you started. You may pick up a model and that "ah-hah" moment will happen. In any event, there's nothing more fun than a good excuse to play a bunch of P basses. Enjoy!

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Post subject: Re: Standard, Vintage 58 and Vintage 62 Pickups Comparison?
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:49 pm
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TheKingofPain wrote:
JK457 wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
Also, these are just some of the "Standards" and a few well known oddballs. There are ALWAYS interesting exceptions that pop up. 57 and 58 P's with the soft V. 70's U shaped P necks. Fender guitarists talk about the "alchemy" of Fender necks all the time in regards to their guitars. However, the Precision bass has some really amazing history when it comes to necks. Some really incredible playing necks, and some real oddball "holy grail" type stuff. I can tell you that if I ever find a 57 split coil with a 56 spec neck I'd sell my soul for it. It doesn't get as much lip service, but if Brotherdave wanders in here he can give you TONS more info than I ever could.

They've written books about Fender basses, but I don't know if any have really ever delved deep enough. The Precision as an evolution is really something special. When it comes to necks there really is NO substitute for laying hands on a particular model. Until you've played a bunch of different specs you might never grasp it. The amount of diversity in even the current Fender Precision line up is pretty staggering.


Thanks so much for your input! Looks like I have some playing to do. At least I am now more comfortable and good at playing bass and better-informed than when I bought the Squier four months ago. Should be pretty easy to tell if that wider neck will work or not. I don't have much digit span, so could be a problem...or not, we'll see.

Went to the Guitar Center closest to me (smaller GC branch) and they had zero vintage P in stock. But the one in Hollywood has always been the main branch around here, maybe they have some AVS there. Played an American Standard today and it felt similar to the Squire except much better. Played it unplugged, though.

Will report back here when I get some pluck time on more basses. Would love to shine work tomorrow and fart around with this lol.



Sounds good. Enjoy the process. I have small, meaty hands and heavy fingers. You'd think a J bass would be ideal. However, I find the string spacing too cramped. Which leads to cramping in my hand. My main bass right now is my AVS 57RI. At first the neck was a bit "much" to get around on. However, I found I adapted to it rather quickly. Honestly the thing that kills me most is the modern radius. The flatter radii really wreaks havoc with my joints and tendons. I play better on my AVS 57 than I do any other bass I've owned even though the neck almost seems too big for my hands.

Also, if a neck is too thin it makes it "play wide". At least according to my hand. Meaning that my Classic 70's Precision is a killer bass with a B width neck, and vintage frets. However, it's a very thin modern C with a modern radius. So even though it's narrower than my 57RI by quite a bit. It feels wide in my hand because I have to stretch my hand into unnatural shapes to play it. Which causes me to fatigue quicker.

A full, vintage radius neck is more in line with the natural shape of most people's hands when they are relaxed. Even though for some things I play it's more work to deal with the wider neck. I cna play all day on my 57 RI and not get worn out.

Personally, my ideal neck is a first generation P neck from the 50's. B width, vintage radius, vintage frets. Which is why though I love my 57RI my next bass after selling my old FSR Antigua and Classic 70's Precisions will probably be a used CS 51 or 55 RI Precision.

Again, have an absolute blast on the adventure. You may play every P bass under the sun and end up back where you started. You may pick up a model and that "ah-hah" moment will happen. In any event, there's nothing more fun than a good excuse to play a bunch of P basses. Enjoy!


Today was a blast, love being my own boss lol...went to another GC today and they happened to have a 64 Heavy Relic in stock. Price tag was only 5000 bucks! *cough* I played it, then an American Standard, then back to the 64. Actually enjoyed that neck much more than the Standard or my Squire. Lots of room and just a nice comfy, classic feel. Plugged it in and and it was waaaaarrrm and sa-weeeeeeet like biting into delicious hot cinnamon roll...in slow motion lol. I would marry her on the spot if she were not such a gold digger! :>P


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Post subject: Re: Standard, Vintage 58 and Vintage 62 Pickups Comparison?
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:31 am
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Oh, I know THAT feeling! That being said. If you really enjoyed the 64. You will find that she shares many characterstics. Both tonally and from a playability standpoint with the old AVS62, current AVS63, The CS Pino and CS Hurley. So if you dig that early 60's tone monster style P bass then you've got TONS of options. I know for a fact that there are plenty of either used or new old stock 62 AVS RIs out there in the 1k-1400 ball park on line. Either at dealers or privately. The only major difference is going to be that Heavy Relic neck will be super broken in, and the old AVS RI basses had the heavy Nitro all over so they feel "Tacky" when new. However, the current 63 has the "flash lacquer" which is supposed to be a really thin coat so it should wear in real quick. You can find Demo 63AVS RIs for around 1600 all over on ebay and other on line retailers. Have fun, and just out of curiosity. Where are you from roughly? No GC within 4.5 hours of me carries anything above the American Standard line for basses. (Guitars are a different story, of course. :roll: ) That must be sweet being able to go try one out without having it completely eat up half your weekend. Last time I got that pleasure I had to drive all the way to Boston.

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Post subject: Re: Standard, Vintage 58 and Vintage 62 Pickups Comparison?
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:57 am
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CA in Los Angeles/Ventura counties area. Went to the one in Sherman Oaks which is about 25 or 30 miles from here. I think the one in Hollywood on Sunset Blvd probably has more AVS and CS stuff; they have always kept instruments in stock that other outlying branches just don't keep. Sherman Oaks has a 74 RI Jazz that is also sweet-ass sweet. Instant love on that one too, just feels so right! lol Yeah I'm on a P quest right now. Once that mish is accomplished, will be on a quest for my first J.


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Post subject: Re: Standard, Vintage 58 and Vintage 62 Pickups Comparison?
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:26 am
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Also what do you think about the "American Design Experience" online design deal? Have you checked that out? What about designing a vintage style bass on there?


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Post subject: Re: Standard, Vintage 58 and Vintage 62 Pickups Comparison?
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:28 am
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I have checked it out. I'm addicted to Nitro. The bodies on there are all Poly. Which is a deal breaker for me. That being said. You can design a "vintage style" P bass with a 58 or 63 pups, neck, and bridge with a poly body and even get it a 58RI case for 300 cheaper than a brand new 63 or 58RI. You'll only be missing the nitro body, case candy, covers, and I'm not sure on this. Possibly the vintage spec wiring harness. To me, that's not going to do it. If I'm spending that kind of money I'm going to spend the extra couple of hundred and get the real deal. Or, as I said. Get a store demo off ebay and actually get the real deal, barely played, a hundred bucks cheaper than the ADE bass. My current number 1 is my used 2012 AVS RI 57 Precision. (in my avatar and sig pic) I scooped it up used for Bass Northwest in Seattle. It still had the stock rounds on it, and just one tiny little dent on the back side of the forearm contour. Couldn't have been played more than 5 times. Everything else was still sealed. Manuals, cable. Everything. Got it for 1100 on sale. It was marked at 1200. Used the 100 I saved to order her a 10 hole Tort guard from WD to give her something to stand out from the crowd.

Considering the new model will cost you 2k unopened. A 63 demo model or a lightly used 62 from a reputable dealer is a steal. Like I said, you can get a 63 demo for 1600 all over on line. In every single color they come in. You can actually probably get an old 3TS 62 for 1k even if you are patient. Honestly, 2k is a LOT of money. However, I'd be very comfortable saying that my 57RI is 2k worth of bass. You can certainly pay a lot more for a lot less. If you get a chance to try a 63RI and really like it. I don't think you could possibly go wrong. However, if you dug the 64. You're probably going to dig the 63.

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Post subject: Re: Standard, Vintage 58 and Vintage 62 Pickups Comparison?
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:39 pm
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TheKingofPain wrote:
I have checked it out. I'm addicted to Nitro. The bodies on there are all Poly. Which is a deal breaker for me. That being said. You can design a "vintage style" P bass with a 58 or 63 pups, neck, and bridge with a poly body and even get it a 58RI case for 300 cheaper than a brand new 63 or 58RI. You'll only be missing the nitro body, case candy, covers, and I'm not sure on this. Possibly the vintage spec wiring harness. To me, that's not going to do it. If I'm spending that kind of money I'm going to spend the extra couple of hundred and get the real deal. Or, as I said. Get a store demo off ebay and actually get the real deal, barely played, a hundred bucks cheaper than the ADE bass. My current number 1 is my used 2012 AVS RI 57 Precision. (in my avatar and sig pic) I scooped it up used for Bass Northwest in Seattle. It still had the stock rounds on it, and just one tiny little dent on the back side of the forearm contour. Couldn't have been played more than 5 times. Everything else was still sealed. Manuals, cable. Everything. Got it for 1100 on sale. It was marked at 1200. Used the 100 I saved to order her a 10 hole Tort guard from WD to give her something to stand out from the crowd.

Considering the new model will cost you 2k unopened. A 63 demo model or a lightly used 62 from a reputable dealer is a steal. Like I said, you can get a 63 demo for 1600 all over on line. In every single color they come in. You can actually probably get an old 3TS 62 for 1k even if you are patient. Honestly, 2k is a LOT of money. However, I'd be very comfortable saying that my 57RI is 2k worth of bass. You can certainly pay a lot more for a lot less. If you get a chance to try a 63RI and really like it. I don't think you could possibly go wrong. However, if you dug the 64. You're probably going to dig the 63.


Oh okay. I searched eBay and found pretty much what you describe. That all makes sense. For colors, really want a black bass with tortoise or black pickguard, and AVS finishes seem a bit limited. But I do like the idea of going after the more genuine article. They are all actually perty enough, limited as the color choices are. Still want to try a 57RI or 58RI. Plenty of black 58RI's floating around on the cheap, but I no like so much that gold pickguard. But could always replace it.


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Post subject: Re: Standard, Vintage 58 and Vintage 62 Pickups Comparison?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:40 am
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JK457 wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
I have checked it out. I'm addicted to Nitro. The bodies on there are all Poly. Which is a deal breaker for me. That being said. You can design a "vintage style" P bass with a 58 or 63 pups, neck, and bridge with a poly body and even get it a 58RI case for 300 cheaper than a brand new 63 or 58RI. You'll only be missing the nitro body, case candy, covers, and I'm not sure on this. Possibly the vintage spec wiring harness. To me, that's not going to do it. If I'm spending that kind of money I'm going to spend the extra couple of hundred and get the real deal. Or, as I said. Get a store demo off ebay and actually get the real deal, barely played, a hundred bucks cheaper than the ADE bass. My current number 1 is my used 2012 AVS RI 57 Precision. (in my avatar and sig pic) I scooped it up used for Bass Northwest in Seattle. It still had the stock rounds on it, and just one tiny little dent on the back side of the forearm contour. Couldn't have been played more than 5 times. Everything else was still sealed. Manuals, cable. Everything. Got it for 1100 on sale. It was marked at 1200. Used the 100 I saved to order her a 10 hole Tort guard from WD to give her something to stand out from the crowd.

Considering the new model will cost you 2k unopened. A 63 demo model or a lightly used 62 from a reputable dealer is a steal. Like I said, you can get a 63 demo for 1600 all over on line. In every single color they come in. You can actually probably get an old 3TS 62 for 1k even if you are patient. Honestly, 2k is a LOT of money. However, I'd be very comfortable saying that my 57RI is 2k worth of bass. You can certainly pay a lot more for a lot less. If you get a chance to try a 63RI and really like it. I don't think you could possibly go wrong. However, if you dug the 64. You're probably going to dig the 63.


Oh okay. I searched eBay and found pretty much what you describe. That all makes sense. For colors, really want a black bass with tortoise or black pickguard, and AVS finishes seem a bit limited. But I do like the idea of going after the more genuine article. They are all actually perty enough, limited as the color choices are. Still want to try a 57RI or 58RI. Plenty of black 58RI's floating around on the cheap, but I no like so much that gold pickguard. But could always replace it.



Yup, should I go with a 58 I will likely go with black. I'm not really keen on another black bass, but black with a tort guard and maple neck looks pretty sexy. Plus, I don't really want to be THAT GUY. The guy with almost two identical looking basses. :?

If you end up going the black 58 route WD sells the 10 hole like I got for my bass in most of the colors they offer. I think there are actually 4 different black guards. The Black bevelled edge single ply, the black with no edge. (like a 51 guard) The faux Bakelite black. Then the multi layer black. They may even have the 4 layer black like the 62 style tort where it's Black/mint/black/mint so it'll give you that aged look. Or they obviously have the tort.

Unfortunately The AVS basses (not so much the 60's models, you'll notice the 63 gets 3ts plus Oly, FSB, and SR) don't usually get much in the line of custom colors. The old 57 was just 2ts and white blonde so believe it or not the 58 coming in black is a HUGE step forward for us. You can find some old custom color runs from the 80's when basically the CS guys were still part of the main factory and the basses got a lot of the special treatment that is now only reserved for guitars. For instance, the current AVS 58 Strat comes in Shell Pink, but not the bass :x

Just as those old AVS series 57's sometimes come in custom colors, the 62's definitely got them more often. I've seen them in quite a few different colors. HOWEVER, at that point you might as well go with a used CS bass. Those old mid 80's custom color AVS basses generally run you CS prices. Nature of the beast I suppose. Though to be fair the guys making those basses went on to be the CS. So the craftsmanship is definitely there.

In all honestly, I'd keep an eye out for a used 62RI in black. Black was a stock Custom Color on the 62's run. It comes with a stock 4 ply Tort guard. It would basically be the exact bass you want. All that early 60's monster tone. Great neck. Black. Tort guard. They are really, really nice basses. One of my old bands used to share a lot of gigs with another band whose bassist had one. Sounded incredible.

I know I've seen a ton of new old stock 62s in 3ts, and a few in white. Keep looking. There has to be a black one out there. NOS they go for less than 1500. Usually right around 1450. To me, given everything you've said you're looking for. That would be the bass that meets all the criteria. It's pretty much the gold standard in terms of mainstream tone, too. So you can't really go wrong. I'm always on the look out for used custom color AVS basses and used CS models. If I you want I can always message you with a link if I stumble across a black 62.

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Post subject: Re: Standard, Vintage 58 and Vintage 62 Pickups Comparison?
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:22 am
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Brother, your knowledge and help is so appreciated. Yeah the black 62 sounds like the one, but if that doesn't pan out, I do like the Faded Sonic Blue 63. And yes, please let me know if you come across anything, thank you. Probably won't be in a position to buy until at least mid summer or fall. We'll see how the stars line up.

Thanks,

Jody


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Post subject: Re: Standard, Vintage 58 and Vintage 62 Pickups Comparison?
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:03 am
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No problem, man. The 63 is a really nice bass, too. Both the Sonic Blue and Oly White look great with that mint guard.

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Post subject: Re: Standard, Vintage 58 and Vintage 62 Pickups Comparison?
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:25 am
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So yesterday afternoon work sent me to Syracuse which also happens to have our closest GC. The errand was supposed to take me all afternoon. It only took a few minutes. So I swung by GC. (they never, ever have stocked anything above an American Standard before) They actually had the 63 in FSB. So I spent a little time with it. WOW. A really gorgeous bass. Incredible tone, and I don't know what is different about the neck profile from my 57 as they are the same width, but that was a seriously comfortable neck. Just full enough to fill your hand, but not to make you struggle. Whatever it was it made the width completely unnoticeable. One thing I LOVE about the New AVS P basses is they come with the covers and mute already installed. It made getting classic sounds out of that bass completely effortless. A real treat to play. I think the only way I could say that could be improved upon would be if they started shipping these basses strung with flats instead of rounds. Other than that it was perfect, and that's just a matter of taste.

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Post subject: Re: Standard, Vintage 58 and Vintage 62 Pickups Comparison?
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:40 am
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Oh cool, stoked you got to check it out, sounds awesome. Nice that those are so readily available, at least online. Is that color even perty-er in person? I can't find any AVS P anything around here right now. All Jazz Basses.

The Fender factory and Visitor Center in Corona is about two to three hours from here depending on traffic. They have a jam room and should have enough instruments there to play the gamut. Going to do the factory tour, just have to take a day off from work to do it. Planning on the Friday after next. Hopefully my work won't get all hectic and put pressure on to work that day! F*** it, I'm goin'! :D

I live only 25 minutes from the DW Drums factory and have done their factory tour three times. It never gets old! You get to jam on all these sick drum kits at the end, so fun. So am pretty excited to see what Fender has in store, should be cool.


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Post subject: Re: Standard, Vintage 58 and Vintage 62 Pickups Comparison?
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:23 pm
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It really is beautiful. The FSB and mint combo give it a beautiful almost aged vintage look. When you look down at what you're playing it certainly transports you. It sounds, looks and feels straight out of the past. It's a real trip. TONS of vibe.

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Post subject: Re: Standard, Vintage 58 and Vintage 62 Pickups Comparison?
Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:43 pm
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TheKingofPain wrote:
It really is beautiful. The FSB and mint combo give it a beautiful almost aged vintage look. When you look down at what you're playing it certainly transports you. It sounds, looks and feels straight out of the past. It's a real trip. TONS of vibe.


Sweet, can't wait to get my greasy clubs on one. Looks amazing in pics. Usually like natural wood finishes and black, but the FSB/mint has a real cool and refined look. Love it against the Rosewood.


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