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Post subject: Question - Matching headstock on pre-CBS Precision?
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:37 pm
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Hey guys,

Does anyone know if 1960 PBasses or any pre-CBS pbasses came with matching head stocks? Was this a custom option?

I have seen matching headstocks on Jazz basses from this era but not PBasses.

Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Question - Matching headstock on pre-CBS Precision?
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:19 pm
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A matching headstock was not offered prior to CBS on a Precision, only on the Jazz.

I have seen a 61 Precision with matching headstock, but do not know if it was a factory special order, or a refinish. It is the only example that comes to mind.

I took a peek back to other threads on this subject and cannot find any evidence of a matching headstock. The most current thread was from March of 2013 and Brother Dave, whose knowledge is immense, stated that they were not offered during "The Golden Age".

I have Precisions from the 50s and early 60s. No matches there either.

Steve

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Post subject: Re: Question - Matching headstock on pre-CBS Precision?
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:23 am
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From what I recall Fender didn't offer matching peaghead Precisions until the early 1980s, when the first active P-Bass Specials came into production.

But there were exceptions, Fender did a few P-Basses with matching headstocks during the golden era, however these basses were special orders.

Here's an example of an original 1958 with a matching painted head:

Image


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Post subject: Re: Question - Matching headstock on pre-CBS Precision?
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:20 am
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Thanks guys. Great info.

I should have worded the question better.

So in 1960 could someone have ordered a matching headstock as a special order?

I am refinishing an original 60 slab board ( other than the finish it was covered in house paint which destroyed the original finish). Since I wouldn't be destroying the value since it was already stripped I was playing with idea of an aged matching olympic white headstock.

I am not too hung up on value. I am an all out player not collector. I have the opportunity to start from scratch.

Here's how I am looking at it. - Think about what you would do if you had the opportunity to go back in time to 1960 and purchase a Precision bass and bring it back with you. If you would bring back a standard sunburst, then do the bass that way. But, under those circumstances, you might custom order exactly what you want from the Fender factory. If I went to a Fender dealer in 1960 and said "I want to custom order a Precision bass in Oly white with a matching headstock", would I get it?


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Post subject: Re: Question - Matching headstock on pre-CBS Precision?
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:11 am
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Kmrumedy wrote:
Here's how I am looking at it. - Think about what you would do if you had the opportunity to go back in time to 1960 and purchase a Precision bass and bring it back with you. If you would bring back a standard sunburst, then do the bass that way. But, under those circumstances, you might custom order exactly what you want from the Fender factory. If I went to a Fender dealer in 1960 and said "I want to custom order a Precision bass in Oly white with a matching headstock", would I get it?


There's the Fender Custom Shop for that.

Bear in mind that custom-made Fenders (and more particularly the Masterbuilts) are extremely expensive and you must fill your pockets with enough bucks before ordering a Time Machine 1960 Closet Classic Olympic White over 3-Colour Sunburst Precision Bass with Matching Headstock.

Go to the "Let's Talk Custom Shop" subforum and start a new thread there:

viewforum.php?f=14

Kindest regards,

John


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Post subject: Re: Question - Matching headstock on pre-CBS Precision?
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:07 pm
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Would you get it if you ordered it? I don't know.

I have found nothing that indicates matching headstocks as an option for order, but I know for a fact that some special finishes on Ps have not been recorded in their database, around that time. I saw a 61P with a matching headstock, oly/oly...could have been an old refinish I guess. I would ask them. They always try to help.

I really appreciate your wanting to stay vintage correct, but honestly, I would go ahead an match the headstock. It is what you want, and it is not really going to have a big affect on the value. House paint? I think your period correct refinish would be a heck of an improvement.

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Post subject: Re: Question - Matching headstock on pre-CBS Precision?
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:07 pm
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We expect a reply from Fender bass guru Brotherdave soon, I hope he'll shed us his lights.


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Post subject: Re: Question - Matching headstock on pre-CBS Precision?
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:15 am
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First, the original neck in original finish has substantial value on it's own. The neck is actually where the bulk of the value lives. Painting the headstock will hurt the value of the neck alone which impacts the overall value of the instrument. How much will you lose? Maybe 50% or more of the value of the neck. You'll also lose the original decal which is irreplaceable. Doing anything to the neck is a bad idea to me unless you just don't care about value at all and you want to be happy. I don't think you'd find a reputable vintage restoration guru who could actually do the headstock painting job with a clear conscience.

I see no problem with refinishing the trashed body because it will increase the value, but around here the neck alone is worth around $3000 in decent shape as it is. Other places it could be worth more or less. Figure $4000 to $5000 for the total instrument roughly with only the body refinished around here. Painting the both body and headstock is going to kick the total instrument value down to as little as $2500 here.

There are matching headstock pre-CBS P-Basses out there like the one pictured which are said to be 100% factory original finished. But whether they are truly factory original or not is a can of worms I really hate getting into without physical inspection of each instrument.

The only thing I can say as an absolute fact is that a pre-CBS P-Bass with a painted headstock is always going to be suspect as a refinish because it just doesn't "look" right for a pre-CBS P-Bass. I would never feel comfortable owning such an oddball. It isn't a scarcity so much as an oddball. When one pops up there will always be debate about whether they are legit or not and to me that hurts desirability.

There's a photo of a 1958 painted headstock P-Bass posted on this thread. Even the very limited Mary Kaye P-Bass of 1958, which is one of the most collectible pre-CBS second generation P-basses, had an unpainted headstock in 1958. Even when FMIC-Fender did a reissue of the Mary Kaye P-Bass in 1989 they again did NOT paint the headstock. The Mary Kaye P was about as nice as a pre-CBS second generation P-Bass ever got. Guess which is more collectible, the Mary Kaye or the 1958 painted headstock P-Bass? The Mary Kaye. I'd shoot for a Mary Kaye treatment and leave the headstock be.


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Post subject: Re: Question - Matching headstock on pre-CBS Precision?
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:20 pm
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Thanks Dave. The neck is already stripped. Agreed, I would never consider this if the neck was stick intact with original finish but the guy also got house paint on the neck! Don't ask me how?!!

Here are some pictures as it is ready for the refin shop. Will be shipping it out next week.

Image

Image

You can see here where the logo was.

Image

She is a beauty and was stuck in a closet for 20 + years. Time for her to get out and get played. I want to dress her up nice. If I did ever sell it and I do get the head stock to match I would be quite upfront about the refin. The headstock should be a dead giveaway. It should be obvious but there are inexperienced buyers.

If I don't do the headstock I was going have the finish slightly aged to look like this.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gI_XrvPCr8s

Better?


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Post subject: Re: Question - Matching headstock on pre-CBS Precision?
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:24 pm
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Beautiful! Hope you post more pictures when it is done.

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