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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:58 am
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brotherdave wrote:
Yes that seems like a logical strategy to get one, but it would be at Fender parts prices. For example a CTS pot that costs about $5 loose is $8 at Fender parts prices from the same parts dealer in a nifty little Fender rack-pack. That's a pretty healthy markup. It's the same exact pot. I won't guess what Fender's markup on a BA bridge would be, but it would no doubt be costlier than buying a retail version through a dealer. If you think buying a brand new car is expensive, try building a new car one piece at a time from new parts bought from a dealership. Same principle.

FMIC contracts Leo Quan BA Music of San Francisco to make them and uses them on Fender and Jackson basses like the Jackson David Ellefson "Kelly Bird" signature model, which incidentally is a very unique good looking bass. I've never played one but it looks good.

Leo Quan is the only outfit who actually can make them due to the fact that the design is patented. So FMIC can only get them through Leo Quan BA Music. When Leo Quan gets an order from FMIC they are outsourcing production and having them drop shipped to FMIC. Quan doesn't really need to sell them one or two dozen at a time anymore to parts dealers when they can sell to FMIC in massive lots.

It simplifies things for Quan because FMIC does all the product support for those orders, not Leo Quan. Quan doesn't even need an office, doesn't have to ship to a bunch of different distributors or dealers, maintain a warehouse or shipping department either. No PR, no advertising, no sales department, no support, no packaging operation, no replacement parts or anything associated with the Leo Quan Company of 10 years ago. Remember Quan headquarters now is in Glen Quan's house. Selling mostly to FMIC simplifies things for Leo Quan Company who no longer even has a channel to deal with any customer support issues directly with consumers. Quan doesn't need any employees at all and has practically no overhead whatsoever, meaning they are probably making more money now than 10 years ago.

Now Quan just takes the FMIC order, notifies their outsourced manufacturing facility how many to drop ship to Fender, invoices Fender, waits for the check from Fender, pays the factory and keeps the profit. Done. That's a great business model, on paper anyhow.

When Quan contracts out a run to whatever contractor is actually making them now they probably run enough extra BAII's (with unslotted saddles) to trickle some out to parts dealers on their "waiting list." This builds demand and desirability as everyone wants what they can't get, so the prices get inflated in the secondary market as you are seeing on eBay which makes paying retail price on the few that do trickle out to parts dealers look very appealing. I remember a few years back when about every local Mom & Pop Fender dealer had shiny new Leo Quan bridges blister packed in the showcase with pedals and tuners and such.

The BAIII was the first to get discontinued, then the BAI. The BAIII was an excellent convertible bridge for 3 screw USA body through basses. Now the only BA you can get are top loading chrome BAII's and they are still available from time to time in your typical parts channels like Guitar Parts Resource and Buzzards. The BAII is probably the only one available because it's the only one FMIC orders.

Martin actually was the first company to use BA's on a production instrument, but they didn't sell at the volume that the multiple FMIC models do. Leo Quan has a waiting list of dealers and some of these parts dealers maintain their own waiting lists of customers salivating for the next crumbs to fall from the table.

Leo Quan's present business model is to fill the big FMIC orders first and let a few trickle out to the parts networks that actually built the product's reputation. You can't even get a BAII with slotted saddles from parts dealers anymore as for some reason all of those go to Fender. Those were great for people who just wanted to slap one on a J-Bass but were only available briefly in retail channels.

Before you say this is all stupid realize that Quan is making way more money doing this while also keeping demand and buzz for the product up in the process. As proof here we are talking about them. It's confounding, but it is the way it works now.
James Coderre wrote:

As you know every part on a Fender Bass has a serial number & most piece's can be replaced through any Fender dealer so I wouldn't be surprised if you went to your local Guitar Center & said I have to replace the Badass II on my Geddy Lee bass (or any other bass that has a Badass II on it ..... even if you don't have the Geddy lee Bass just use it as an excuse to see if it's available through Fender) the sales person would check the code for the piece & give you a price to re-order should it be available,..... I'm almost certain that this can be done,.....in fact I have to replace the chrome pick guard on my
Steve Harris P-Bass,.... I contacted Fender customer relations & got a part number & a price......so I think the same thing is possible with the Badass II ...... I also think Fender is contracting some one to make them because as I said they're still available on a few Fender Basses..... :)


Yes that seems like a logical strategy to get one, but it would be at Fender parts prices. For example a CTS pot that costs about $5 loose is $8 at Fender parts prices from the same parts dealer in a nifty little Fender rack-pack. That's a pretty healthy markup. It's the same exact pot. I won't guess what Fender's markup on a BA bridge would be, but it would no doubt be costlier than buying a retail version through a dealer. If you think buying a brand new car is expensive, try building a new car one piece at a time from new parts bought from a dealership. Same principle.

FMIC contracts Leo Quan BA Music of San Francisco to make them and uses them on Fender and Jackson basses like the Jackson David Ellefson "Kelly Bird" signature model, which incidentally is a very unique good looking bass. I've never played one but it looks good.

Leo Quan is the only outfit who actually can make them due to the fact that the design is patented. So FMIC can only get them through Leo Quan BA Music. When Leo Quan gets an order from FMIC they are outsourcing production and having them drop shipped to FMIC. Quan doesn't really need to sell them one or two dozen at a time anymore to parts dealers when they can sell to FMIC in massive lots.

It simplifies things for Quan because FMIC does all the product support for those orders, not Leo Quan. Quan doesn't even need an office, doesn't have to ship to a bunch of different distributors or dealers, maintain a warehouse or shipping department either. No PR, no advertising, no sales department, no support, no packaging operation, no replacement parts or anything associated with the Leo Quan Company of 10 years ago. Remember Quan headquarters now is in Glen Quan's house. Selling mostly to FMIC simplifies things for Leo Quan Company who no longer even has a channel to deal with any customer support issues directly with consumers. Quan doesn't need any employees at all and has practically no overhead whatsoever, meaning they are probably making more money now than 10 years ago.

Now Quan just takes the FMIC order, notifies their outsourced manufacturing facility how many to drop ship to Fender, invoices Fender, waits for the check from Fender, pays the factory and keeps the profit. Done. That's a great business model, on paper anyhow.

When Quan contracts out a run to whatever contractor is actually making them now they probably run enough extra BAII's (with unslotted saddles) to trickle some out to parts dealers on their "waiting list." This builds demand and desirability as everyone wants what they can't get, so the prices get inflated in the secondary market as you are seeing on eBay which makes paying retail price on the few that do trickle out to parts dealers look very appealing. I remember a few years back when about every local Mom & Pop Fender dealer had shiny new Leo Quan bridges blister packed in the showcase with pedals and tuners and such.

The BAIII was the first to get discontinued, then the BAI. The BAIII was an excellent convertible bridge for 3 screw USA body through basses. Now the only BA you can get are top loading chrome BAII's and they are still available from time to time in your typical parts channels like Guitar Parts Resource and Buzzards. The BAII is probably the only one available because it's the only one FMIC orders.

Martin actually was the first company to use BA's on a production instrument, but they didn't sell at the volume that the multiple FMIC models do. Leo Quan has a waiting list of dealers and some of these parts dealers maintain their own waiting lists of customers salivating for the next crumbs to fall from the table.

Leo Quan's present business model is to fill the big FMIC orders first and let a few trickle out to the parts networks that actually built the product's reputation. You can't even get a BAII with slotted saddles from parts dealers anymore as for some reason all of those go to Fender. Those were great for people who just wanted to slap one on a J-Bass but were only available briefly in retail channels.

Before you say this is all stupid realize that Quan is making way more money doing this while also keeping demand and buzz for the product up in the process. As proof here we are talking about them. It's confounding, but it is the way it works now.

Thanks Dave...It's smart business on Quan's part & Fender's part,creating demand for the Badass II & only being able to find one on a Fender Bass sells more basses for Fender I'm sure....However I do think that at some point you're going to see more of the Fender High mass bridge on more Fender Basses than the Bassass II as they're almost identicle,....I recently got to play a Candy Apple Red Hot rod 70's Jazz bass with a Fender high mass bridge,......it's a nice Bridge (& nice bass too) if I hadn't looked at the name stamped on the Bridge I would of thought it was a Badass II & as for the Hot Rod Jazz Bass it sounds awesome it's up there in the Select catagory with regard to craftsmanship ...this bass has a U neck,..... a little meatier than a C neck yet I still found it comfortable to play.


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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 5:03 pm
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I think the only reason Fender contineus to buy BAIIs is for signature bass models, like the Mike Dirnt, Geddy Lee, and Marcus Miller basses. They want to stay true to the artist's specifications unelss they give approval to change a few parts here and there.

I heard Leo Quan died years ago and the company kind of...dissolved. I got lucky in getting a BAII from someone selling their Geddy Lee jazz bass' parts months ago...


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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 8:12 pm
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shadownet wrote:
I think the only reason Fender contineus to buy BAIIs is for signature bass models, like the Mike Dirnt, Geddy Lee, and Marcus Miller basses. They want to stay true to the artist's specifications unelss they give approval to change a few parts here and there.

I heard Leo Quan died years ago and the company kind of...dissolved. I got lucky in getting a BAII from someone selling their Geddy Lee jazz bass' parts months ago...


Yes Quan Died years ago but I'm sure there's a contract in place for Fender to have who ever is now making them,.. continue to do so for Fender for X amount of years,.... maybe that contract is nearing it's end & Fender is slowly fazing in their version of the BadassII on a few of their basses, ... we may never know what the deal or arrangement is with Quan
I can tell you that I have the BadassII on my Marcus, Geddy , & Steve Harris Bass & the Fender version of this bridge on my Vintage Hot Rod 70's Jazz bass ... & let me tell ya I like both bridges but I give a slight edge to the Fender Hi-Mass bridge...


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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 12:57 am
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Brotherdave, can you tell me if the American Standard hi-mass bridges can fit a Mexican Fender jazz bridge mount? I do love the looks of those


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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 5:03 am
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I have a pre-slotted model on my Classic 70's P. Picked it up a few years back. Great bridge. I've used them on many P's through out the years and I've never, ever been disappointed in one. Never once a single issue. When going for a harder rock sound, whether with flats or rounds I prefer them. I'm sure the new Fender model will work just as well. Fender ought to start offering a non-CS branded version of the CS RSD Bass Bridge at somepoint. Those things look killer.

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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 5:45 am
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The Fender version of the bridge on the Vintage Hot Rod 70's Jazz, and Precision basses looks to almost be a BAll, and makes the most sense to replace the Quan BAll if needed.

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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 6:14 am
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Mr. Nylon wrote:
The Fender version of the bridge on the Vintage Hot Rod 70's Jazz, and Precision basses looks to almost be a BAll, and makes the most sense to replace the Quan BAll if needed.



I noticed that. You know, I have to wonder with the troubles that Quan was facing as a company and Fender's propensity to buy things out. I almost wonder if they entered into some sort of crazy contract with Quan or something. Part of it being limiting competition or releases of product in leiu of a steady fee. Those bridges almost look like rebranded BAIIs, honestly. It's certainly not unheard of for large manufactures to have components done by a contract manufacturer and simply branded with their name.

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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 2:51 pm
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TheKingofPain wrote:
Those bridges almost look like rebranded BAIIs, honestly. It's certainly not unheard of for large manufactures to have components done by a contract manufacturer and simply branded with their name.


They really do,....the only difference is the Bridge Saddles look a little different,.... I think we'll eventually find out the Fender bought Leo Quan's Company & Bridge designs.


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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 5:06 pm
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James Coderre wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
Those bridges almost look like rebranded BAIIs, honestly. It's certainly not unheard of for large manufactures to have components done by a contract manufacturer and simply branded with their name.


They really do,....the only difference is the Bridge Saddles look a little different,.... I think we'll eventually find out the Fender bought Leo Quan's Company & Bridge designs.


The saddles do appear to be more of a traditional Fender style design. The Fender Bridge also uses 5 mounting screws as the Quan BAll.

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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 5:58 pm
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Mr. Nylon wrote:
The saddles do appear to be more of a traditional Fender style design. The Fender Bridge also uses 5 mounting screws as the Quan BAll.

I placed my Vintage Hot Rod 70's Jazz Bass next to my Marcus Miller Jazz bass & examined the Fender Hi-Mass Bridge next to the Badass II Bridge & they're almost Identical ....except for the Bridge saddles,.... the Saddles on the Fender Bridge are not slotted like the Badass II,.... they're rounded on the outer edge with the center part of the saddle squared off,... (if this makes any sence) ..... the string sits on the middle squared off part of the saddle,..... as I said earlier I really like this Bridge & I think it's slowly becoming one of Fenders Standard Bridge options along side the Hi mass Vintage
Bridge, the 4 saddle American Vintage bridge & the 4 saddle American Vintage with single Groove steel Barrel saddles.


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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 11:01 pm
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shadownet wrote:
Brotherdave, can you tell me if the American Standard hi-mass bridges can fit a Mexican Fender jazz bridge mount? I do love the looks of those


I think the high mass bridge is a three screw convertible, meaning for top loading or string through. The MIM basses mostly use 5 screw top loading only bridges. So it would not be a straight swap and you'd have to drill. I hate that.


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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 5:47 am
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Dave,

Is the Vintage Hi Mass the one that drops in on the single coil P basses? I remember being confused about that when the modern one came out along with the BAIII. They fit the newer American Standards, but I wasn't sure which if any would work with a 51 or 55 RI or comparable model.

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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 9:55 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
Dave,

Is the Vintage Hi Mass the one that drops in on the single coil P basses? I remember being confused about that when the modern one came out along with the BAIII. They fit the newer American Standards, but I wasn't sure which if any would work with a 51 or 55 RI or comparable model.


The Fender Deluxe bridge would fit a '51. This is the one used prior to the current high mass model. The problem I found with that bridge on a '51 RI is that the short saddle travel would not allow one of my 51's to intonate correctly and I needed more saddle travel.

Notice in the photo the short saddle travel guides on the bass plate.

Image

The BAIII also worked and provided at least twice the saddle travel.

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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 11:08 am
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Good info! Thanks, Dave. It certainly got confusing there for a bit. The available string travel on that first bridge is crazy limited. What were they thinking?

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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 12:48 pm
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I have BadAz bridges on several of my basses and I think they are more trouble than they are worth. The bridge saddle hex screws are very small. The bridges corrode terribly if you have a problem in that area and they can become impossible to adjust.
The base of the BA bridge is not flat so you can have a grounding wire not make as good a contact as it would under a conventional Fender bridge.

I am with Bro Dave on liking the vintage Fender bridge best. Its easy to adjust and they make sense. Simple is better.

If you want a more modern replacement bridge, I would look at the Babicz , Hipshot or Gotoh bridges for some good choices.

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