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Post subject: No more Badass?
Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:11 pm
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I have tried to find a Badass II bridge for my bass to help with sustain and weight balancing but it seems no one carries them anymore and I have read that Fender bought Leo Quan. Can anyone confirm this? Are Fender's new high mass bridges just rebranded Badasses?

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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:49 pm
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I think Mr. Quan makes them in batches. Fender bought all of those for the Hwy 1's and Marcus Miller's.


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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:18 am
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They're a good bridge, but they have NO customer service. If you have a problem with one, you're on your own.

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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:54 am
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Leo Quan products are not being manufactured and it is uncertain when or if they will again be available with the exception of Badass II Chrome un-slotted bridges which seem to trickle out in small quantities to dealers and parts houses once or twice a year and many dealers have waiting lists to get them. Frankly the bulk of Leo Quan Inc's output in recent years has been bought by one company, Fender.

The Leo Quan website is gone and the domain is for sale. The business has not vaporized entirely though and Glen Quan is in charge of what is left of Leo Quan now. What is left is the designs and the brand. There is no longer a Leo Quan manufacturing facility and everything is outsourced. The current corporate address of 561 Darien Way in San Francisco is actually Glen Quan's residence and that is where the Leo Quan Inc phone number rings. That company just doesn't need to deal with the public anymore when they can sell their entire output by the boxcar load to Fender.

Before Fender started buying practically everything Leo Quan could produce their customer service was so bad it was for all practical purposes non-existent anyway. There is no need for a web presence since Leo Quan doesn't really care about little guys that buy bridges one at a time, even though that was how their business initially got built. If you want to call Glen Quan in San Francisco the business phone number at his house is 415-681-6650. Good luck with that.


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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:50 am
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Thanks for the info everyone. Can you all suggest a good (or better) replacement for the Badass II? I want it to be a drop in with no modification and that's why I initially wanted the Badass, and why I was turned away from the Schaller 3D bridge.

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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:47 am
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WOW! I had no idea that Leo Quan stopped making bridges. That sucks.


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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:57 am
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What the heck can go wrong with a BA bridge? If something really is wrong, you can see it through the plastic packaging, before you buy it. Customer service for what?


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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:49 am
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There are plenty of them on eBay today.

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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:07 pm
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If you put a BA on a Fender bass there's a good chance if you remove it- that you'll have a big square indent in the body. The Ba is an okay bridge. The BA works good in some situations. It's a shame there is no customer interest on their part. It seems they could jack the price up and sell some bridges to single customers. Maybe they have a deal with Fender to be their only cussamer/ receiver.


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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:50 pm
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WildintheStreets wrote:
What the heck can go wrong with a BA bridge? If something really is wrong, you can see it through the plastic packaging, before you buy it. Customer service for what?


Saddles, screws, springs. Things break, things get stripped, things rust or get filed incorrectly by inexperienced saddle groovers. Also it helps if you lose your saddle hex key wrench to be able to get an answer on what size the thing was. That was what I needed and never got an answer after sending a couple of emails. I just wanted to know the size hex key needed as I had 2 full sets of keys and they were all too big or too little. At one time you could buy saddles, screws, springs, everything for a Leo Quan bridge except the base-plate.

I have no problem with Gotoh bridges. The GOTOH 201 for 5 screw top loading. GOTOH also makes a 201 style bridge called the STRING THROUGH for use on string through body USA models with 3 screws. These run around $50. Both Gotoh bridge styles I've installed have been perfectly stable.

My all time favorite bridge is the Fender Original with the threaded saddles for 5 screw top loaders. It rocks! The new high mass Fender bridges are neat also, but I'm more of a vintage style guy than a high mass bridge guy. This bridge is like $30 or less and was probably ahead of it's time as most things Leo usually were.

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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:17 pm
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I'd go with the new Fender Heavy Bridge rather than a Badass. I like the so called "Vintage High Mass Bridge" that came stock on my 2012 American Standard Jazz.
The Hipshot 'A' is an extremely high quality Made In USA bass bridge. The Babicz bass bridge is also very much worth looking into, as it is quite inovative. Plenty of options available.

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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:23 am
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linnin wrote:
I'd go with the new Fender Heavy Bridge rather than a Badass. I like the so called "Vintage High Mass Bridge" that came stock on my 2012 American Standard Jazz.
The Hipshot 'A' is an extremely high quality Made In USA bass bridge. The Babicz bass bridge is also very much worth looking into, as it is quite inovative. Plenty of options available.


+1000 :) I totally agree,.... I believe the new Fender Heavy Bridge is esentially a Badass II with FENDER printed on top,.... check out the 70's Hot Rod Jazz bass, it has one. I also really like the High Mass Vintage Bridge it came stock on my Select Jazz Bass & 2011 American Deluxe Jazz 5,..... Fender has been doing a good job in this department in recent years,.... I think gone are the day were the first thing bass players
did when they got a new Fender was swap out the bridge
& you're right Linin the Hipsot A Bridge & Babicz Bridges are worth looking into as are Gotoh Bridges.... :)


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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:57 pm
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If Fender, for whatever reason couldn't get any Quan bridges in the future, why don't they just use the High Mass bridges, weather they go on a bass that strings through the body, or not. It's a very well made bridge.

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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:15 pm
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Mr. Nylon wrote:
If Fender, for whatever reason couldn't get any Quan bridges in the future, why don't they just use the High Mass bridges, weather they go on a bass that strings through the body, or not. It's a very well made bridge.


As you know every part on a Fender Bass has a serial number & most piece's can be replaced through any Fender dealer so I wouldn't be surprised if you went to your local Guitar Center & said I have to replace the Badass II on my Geddy Lee bass (or any other bass that has a Badass II on it ..... even if you don't have the Geddy lee Bass just use it as an excuse to see if it's available through Fender) the sales person would check the code for the piece & give you a price to re-order should it be available,..... I'm almost certain that this can be done,.....in fact I have to replace the chrome pick guard on my
Steve Harris P-Bass,.... I contacted Fender customer relations & got a part number & a price......so I think the same thing is possible with the Badass II ...... I also think Fender is contracting some one to make them because as I said they're still available on a few Fender Basses..... :)


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Post subject: Re: No more Badass?
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:05 pm
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James Coderre wrote:

As you know every part on a Fender Bass has a serial number & most piece's can be replaced through any Fender dealer so I wouldn't be surprised if you went to your local Guitar Center & said I have to replace the Badass II on my Geddy Lee bass (or any other bass that has a Badass II on it ..... even if you don't have the Geddy lee Bass just use it as an excuse to see if it's available through Fender) the sales person would check the code for the piece & give you a price to re-order should it be available,..... I'm almost certain that this can be done,.....in fact I have to replace the chrome pick guard on my
Steve Harris P-Bass,.... I contacted Fender customer relations & got a part number & a price......so I think the same thing is possible with the Badass II ...... I also think Fender is contracting some one to make them because as I said they're still available on a few Fender Basses..... :)


Yes that seems like a logical strategy to get one, but it would be at Fender parts prices. For example a CTS pot that costs about $5 loose is $8 at Fender parts prices from the same parts dealer in a nifty little Fender rack-pack. That's a pretty healthy markup. It's the same exact pot. I won't guess what Fender's markup on a BA bridge would be, but it would no doubt be costlier than buying a retail version through a dealer. If you think buying a brand new car is expensive, try building a new car one piece at a time from new parts bought from a dealership. Same principle.

FMIC contracts Leo Quan BA Music of San Francisco to make them and uses them on Fender and Jackson basses like the Jackson David Ellefson "Kelly Bird" signature model, which incidentally is a very unique good looking bass. I've never played one but it looks good.

Leo Quan is the only outfit who actually can make them due to the fact that the design is patented. So FMIC can only get them through Leo Quan BA Music. When Leo Quan gets an order from FMIC they are outsourcing production and having them drop shipped to FMIC. Quan doesn't really need to sell them one or two dozen at a time anymore to parts dealers when they can sell to FMIC in massive lots.

It simplifies things for Quan because FMIC does all the product support for those orders, not Leo Quan. Quan doesn't even need an office, doesn't have to ship to a bunch of different distributors or dealers, maintain a warehouse or shipping department either. No PR, no advertising, no sales department, no support, no packaging operation, no replacement parts or anything associated with the Leo Quan Company of 10 years ago. Remember Quan headquarters now is in Glen Quan's house. Selling mostly to FMIC simplifies things for Leo Quan Company who no longer even has a channel to deal with any customer support issues directly with consumers. Quan doesn't need any employees at all and has practically no overhead whatsoever, meaning they are probably making more money now than 10 years ago.

Now Quan just takes the FMIC order, notifies their outsourced manufacturing facility how many to drop ship to Fender, invoices Fender, waits for the check from Fender, pays the factory and keeps the profit. Done. That's a great business model, on paper anyhow.

When Quan contracts out a run to whatever contractor is actually making them now they probably run enough extra BAII's (with unslotted saddles) to trickle some out to parts dealers on their "waiting list." This builds demand and desirability as everyone wants what they can't get, so the prices get inflated in the secondary market as you are seeing on eBay which makes paying retail price on the few that do trickle out to parts dealers look very appealing. I remember a few years back when about every local Mom & Pop Fender dealer had shiny new Leo Quan bridges blister packed in the showcase with pedals and tuners and such.

The BAIII was the first to get discontinued, then the BAI. The BAIII was an excellent convertible bridge for 3 screw USA body through basses. Now the only BA you can get are top loading chrome BAII's and they are still available from time to time in your typical parts channels like Guitar Parts Resource and Buzzards. The BAII is probably the only one available because it's the only one FMIC orders.

Martin actually was the first company to use BA's on a production instrument, but they didn't sell at the volume that the multiple FMIC models do. Leo Quan has a waiting list of dealers and some of these parts dealers maintain their own waiting lists of customers salivating for the next crumbs to fall from the table.

Leo Quan's present business model is to fill the big FMIC orders first and let a few trickle out to the parts networks that actually built the product's reputation. You can't even get a BAII with slotted saddles from parts dealers anymore as for some reason all of those go to Fender. Those were great for people who just wanted to slap one on a J-Bass but were only available briefly in retail channels.

Before you say this is all stupid realize that Quan is making way more money doing this while also keeping demand and buzz for the product up in the process. As proof here we are talking about them. It's confounding, but it is the way it works now.


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