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Post subject: P-Bass Capacitor Experiment - DiMarzio Matchup
Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:14 pm
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Finally had some free time over the weekend... mainly from being snowed in... but ever since I installed the white DiMarzio DP127 'railroad track' split P pickups on the 2008 MIM P-Bass, I have wanted to experiment with an alternate capacitor value that works best (for me) with the DiMarzio setup. I left the original value in the bass when I upgraded to the DP127's some time ago, and while the tone range using STOCK pot's and cap was OK, I figured that the DiMarzio's might be enhanced a bit with a cap value other than stock. After testing values from .005 to .10 microfarad, the one that works the best, in my particular 2008 MIM Standard Precision Bass, is a .060 microfarad Mylar capacitor. This allows the DiMarzio DP127's to produce a wider range of lows to highs than the stock cap. Anything larger than that rolls off way too much of the highs and using anything smaller than the stock cap value really has no perceptible difference.

If Stroker Vance, Linnin and any other DiMarzio split P fans wish to try this, please let me know what your own results are. Thanks.

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Post subject: Re: P-Bass Capacitor Experiment - DiMarzio Matchup
Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:33 pm
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:arrow: I think my so called vintage buns may have been left in the oven too long. I have 'vintage' ceramic disk 1/2 mirco-farrad tone caps that were new in 197?. And stock CTS pots. That's all I know.

Sounds Good To Me!

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Post subject: Re: P-Bass Capacitor Experiment - DiMarzio Matchup
Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:12 pm
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I'm wondering if the copper shielding I put in the cavity of my P Bass parts Axe is causing capacitance (since it's all grounded together) thus not letting my tone circuit do it's job....?????.... I have 500k pots and an 0473 cap and there just isn't much treble- less than any other 500k 0473 set up I've heard. Any ideas? The cavity is about 6"x4" approx. ( for adding mods etc. and it's in the back of the body.) There's alot of copper in there plus on the back of the cover. Maybe I'm choking it with too much copper-- I mean it's a Hum buck pickup- right? I wouldn't think it needs all the copper maybe. I'm tempted to take the copper out. The treble is only sounding like it's about half way up.


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Post subject: Re: P-Bass Capacitor Experiment - DiMarzio Matchup
Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:48 am
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None of my Fender basses have any supplemental shielding. Stock split P-bass pickups are noise canceling and if you use a high quality cord to the amp, there shouldn't be any hum anywhere. In fact, as you mentioned, an over abundance of copper or other foil in the compartment can do some pretty weird things. Fender didn't deem it necessary to shield those areas with gobs of foil and especially using DiMarzio pickups, it isn't necessary.

The only thing that I have done on my non-fender basses that are ACTIVE is to run a secondary flat ground wire from the body of the commonly grounded controls to make contact under one of the screws that holds the foil covered equipment bay cover in place. And even that may not have been necessary because I noticed no hum before or after.

The .047 mfd. cap that you are using may be rolling off too much or might be acting like a resistor if it has ever taken a static electricity shot. Try a Radio Shack Mylar film cap .060 (brown in color) and you may like the result.

Mine came out of a radio communications kit shown below that I have had in my workroom since the mid 1980's....

Click >>> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... d=12460899

Good luck with your testing.


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Post subject: Re: P-Bass Capacitor Experiment - DiMarzio Matchup
Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:38 pm
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oKAY- THE FIRST THING i'LL do is change the cap. If it still sounds the same I'm taking out the copper. I have other basses with no copper shields and there is no problem with them ever really.

I have removed copper shield from a Strat before.


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Post subject: Re: P-Bass Capacitor Experiment - DiMarzio Matchup
Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:41 am
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stroker vance wrote:
oKAY- THE FIRST THING i'LL do is change the cap. If it still sounds the same I'm taking out the copper. I have other basses with no copper shields and there is no problem with them ever really.

I have removed copper shield from a Strat before.



Is that one of your basses that has the DiMarzio pickups installed?


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Post subject: Re: P-Bass Capacitor Experiment - DiMarzio Matchup
Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:04 pm
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Yes - it has the DP127 Split Rails. I have the 127's in another P bass (74) also. In the 74 the pickups perform like they should- like what I'm used to. The P in question (80's) is a solid Swamp Ash one piece body. It's about 9lbs. I would maybe expect a little less treble with such a dense body or I should say " a little different overall tone". But there is only about 1/2 the treble that it should have. I used thinner wire in the 80's P(23 I think). The 74 has 24 guage. The 80's has a brass Schaller roller bridge.

I'm going to cut into it and see what I can do the first chance I get- which may be tomorrow (26th).


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Post subject: Re: P-Bass Capacitor Experiment - DiMarzio Matchup
Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:33 pm
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Thanks, S-V... I'm sure that other DiMarzio users will be interested in several aspects of this discussion so they can fine tune their own basses if necessary.

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Post subject: Re: P-Bass Capacitor Experiment - DiMarzio Matchup
Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:43 pm
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I removed the copper in the electronics cavity (6"x4"). I left the copper on the cavity cover (inside) and I left the copper in the bottom of the pickup route along with the ground wire which is attached to the back of a pot. I did not change the 473 cap.
The bass is fixed. It has the proper amount of treble. There is no noise what so ever AND I sat under my flourescent light when I plugged in to my amp. That causes hum with single coils and some humbucking situatiuons. So no buzz, hum , we have proper response, proper grounding, roundwound strings and a very satisfied bass player with Dimarzio DP127 Split Rail pickups.

Now.. let's get back to the O.P. and I'll concern myself with that.


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Post subject: Re: P-Bass Capacitor Experiment - DiMarzio Matchup
Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:54 pm
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Good News, S-V. Glad that it worked out as it did.

I thought, as you did, that too much shielding material can change the impedance of the circuit, thus changing the characteristics of the controls and how the components interact with each other.

If or when you get around to changing out the tone cap, as a continuation of the experiment, let us know what value you decide on - or if you leave the .047 mfd in there.

Thanks and Happy New Year..

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Post subject: Re: P-Bass Capacitor Experiment - DiMarzio Matchup
Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:32 pm
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PaducahLuke wrote:
Good News, S-V. Glad that it worked out as it did.

I thought, as you did, that too much shielding material can change the impedance of the circuit, thus changing the characteristics of the controls and how the components interact with each other.

If or when you get around to changing out the tone cap, as a continuation of the experiment, let us know what value you decide on - or if you leave the .047 mfd in there.

Thanks and Happy New Year..



Yes my friend at the music store described the "too much copper and too many grounds" thing to me a long time ago. Now I understand. I have other basses with total shields with no problem. It's just not as large an amount as was in the 80's Ash Precision. Which is a fine instrument. It has this "oh.. I like the way that looks- therefore I want to play it" thing going on.


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Post subject: Re: P-Bass Capacitor Experiment - DiMarzio Matchup
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:08 pm
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8)


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Post subject: Re: P-Bass Capacitor Experiment - DiMarzio Matchup
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:53 pm
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PaducahLuke wrote:
None of my Fender basses have any supplemental shielding. Stock split P-bass pickups are noise canceling and if you use a high quality cord to the amp, there shouldn't be any hum anywhere...


Split pickups and shielding each reduce different types of noise. It is not enough to have one or the other. I would never, ever remove one or the other. It may seem noise-free in your basement but, when you take it on the road, you have a much higher chance of being susceptible to different noise sources and you will be screwed.

Split-pickups cancel out the noise from magnetic fields.
Shielding blocks the noise from electric (also electromagnetic) fields.
You want to protect yourself as much as possible from the noise of electric and magnetic fields.


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Post subject: Re: P-Bass Capacitor Experiment - DiMarzio Matchup
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:23 pm
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Thanks for your input.

I mentioned that my Fender basses have "no supplemental shielding"... just what they came with from the factory. I have been "on the road" since the mid 1960's and have NEVER encountered any stage related issues creating hum, static or other electromagnetic noise that the factory shielding and a high quality guitar cord couldn't take care of. The ONLY thing that I have ever added is a new flat ground wire from under the bridge at the grounding pigtail over to a mounting screw for a bridge cover.

Perhaps some performers have issues with stage sources of 'noise', but in 50 years on the road, I have not. I was told recently, however, that the special effects smoke generators can cause noise from the electric motor/fan assembly that pushes out the smoke. We don't use that effect, so I can not confirm that personally.


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Post subject: Re: P-Bass Capacitor Experiment - DiMarzio Matchup
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:56 pm
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With the H Buckers I've never had any problems either- except for an occasional neon light and then that was more of the guitar players problem.

The sound of my bass was effected by all the copper I had in it. I still have some in the pickup route and on the back of the P guard.

I have played in a situation where building grounding was a problem. There's nothing you can do about that except figure it out and fix it. Someone stole the copper wire from the grounding rod outside the building.

I'm currently installing two 500k pots and a 473 in my 03 P bass V neck- It has shielding paint in the routes from the factory so I'm good to go. I'd try a different cap but I'm not real close to the Radio Shark.


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