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Post subject: Fender stock bass strings in the 50s/early 60s
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:53 am
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Hi
What were the stock strings that were put on the Precision bass in the 50s/ early 60s? I suppose they were flatwounds but I'm also interested in the gauge. Fender guitars had heavy strings back then but was this also the case with the basses? Strings heavier than 45-100?
Thanks in advance. :)


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Post subject: Re: Fender stock bass strings in the 50s/early 60s
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:28 am
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AFFPROD !!!! OH AFFPROD !!!! He knows just ask him. Bro Dave too. They are smart they have power (StarTrek next Gen.)


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Post subject: Re: Fender stock bass strings in the 50s/early 60s
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:15 am
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The stock bass strings were called Fender 80s. They were highly polished light gauge flatwouds. I don't remember the exact guages of the strings, but they were probably 45- 100 or in that range.


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Post subject: Re: Fender stock bass strings in the 50s/early 60s
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:33 pm
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I am at a loss, so far anyway, to report what the stock string was in the beginning. I find a reference to Fender using steel wrapped gut strings during the prototype stage, but I don't know if these carried forward into first production, later that year.

I think BC is correct on the size. The nut leads me to believe strings were someplace in the 45-100 area, perhaps just a tad heavier. I just put a set of 9050Ls on my 52 and it was a nice fit.

I am going to keep looking because it is a great question. Stay tuned.

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Post subject: Re: Fender stock bass strings in the 50s/early 60s
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:18 am
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(This same topic but regarding 1952 P-Basses specifically came up in Feb of 2011. Copied below is what I wrote then. The gauge would have been your familiar medium gauge flats, nothing huge. While V.C. Squier was likely in on in the development stages of the 51 P-Bass I'm sure Fender would have bought strings elsewhere if they could get them cheaper. There were no Fender branded strings whatsoever until 1963! More often than not they were using V.C. Squier strings and Labella strings came into use for a period in the very early 1960's.)

They were flatwound strings from the low bidder. Leo Fender was a very thrifty man and would bid out, by today's standards, very small quantities. Think one-hundred sets of strings instead of 25 gross. He was only building hundreds of P-Basses per year at first.

There were no roundwound bass strings until Rotosound introduced the first rounds in 1962 which are still in production today as the Swing Bass 66 set. All basses before that had flatwounds. You couldn't get anything else but flats until 1962. Fender was still putting flats on basses long after 1962, but I'm not exactly sure when Fender switched to rounds.

As to exactly WHAT flatwounds were on the 1951, 52 and 53 Precisions this is only a guess. I have no evidence. But there was a longstanding relationship between Leo Fender and the V.C. Squier Company of Battle Creek, MI.

I suspect that since V.C. Squier won the bids to supply strings for Fender's earliest guitars that Leo Fender would have likely given them a crack at developing the first electric bass strings, at least for the few prototypes. He would not have wanted word to get out what he was specifying, so he would not have talked to a lot of different companies. Probably he would have went to just one that he was already dealing with that he felt would keep it quiet, else lose him as a customer. I really don't think he would have put out a lot of bids on the prototypical electric bass strings. It was sort of a secret at this point after all.

Developing strings to his specifications would not have been a challenge for V.C. Squier as one of the leading string makers in the USA at that time. Then, after having made the prototypical sets they would also be in the best position to supply them in quantity quickly and at a much lower bid than any other maker of the day. All the others would have to do the developmental work which the prototype contractor had already done.

V.C. Squier strings were handmade in Battle Creek, MI and the company had been in business there since 1890 and became the foremost violin string maker in the USA by 1900. (Their primary USA competition was Black Diamond.) V.C. Squier Company broadened first to a wide range of string production for classical orchestral instruments including cellos and basses. By the 1930's they were making strings for about any stringed instrument you could name and quickly developed strings for use on the earliest electric/acoustic (Jazz-Box) guitars in the 1930's.

Leo Fender settled with V.C. Squier also as the first official OEM supplier of strings to be branded as "FENDER" starting in 1963.

Then, through the first two months of 65 Leo Fender finalized a buy out of the V.C. Squier Company lock, stock and barrel. V.C. Squier now was a division of FENDER. When Leo sold FENDER to CBS the V.C. Squier Company went to CBS too since it was a FENDER division.

By 1965 CBS began relocating all guitar/bass string manufacturing to Fullerton and the banjo/mandolin strings would follow in turn and then in 1975 CBS suddenly killed off all remaining Battle Creek production including V.C. Squier Company's still viable violin, acoustic bass and cello string production.

The V.C. Squier brand goes totally dormant until resurrection in 1982, minus the "V.C." as Fender's budget SQUIER line of guitars and basses introduced to compete with Asian knockoffs of USA Fenders.

Thus, it is my best guess that the 51 through at least the 53 Precision bass strings were most likely made by V.C. Squier and in fact most, if not all, of the guitar strings through 1964 and into 1965 were mainly made by V.C. Squier as well. But if someone underbid V.C. Squier on a few orders then Leo Fender would be just the kind of astute businessman looking to save a few dollars here or there that he would go with the lower bid as he figured he was not only saving a dollar or two, but was also keeping a major supplier in line.

Labella's first electric bass string, the 760M's, debuted in 1954. Says so on the package. I'm not sure exactly when they were first used as stock strings on Fender Precisions but I am sure they were used for a while. For Leo Fender to switch makers, either Labella underbid Squier or the Labellas sounded totally amazing. Not sure which, but my money would be on them undercutting V.C. Squier by a few dollars per gross. But just maybe it was both?

Leo Fender was a genius, but unlike some geniuses who have no comprehension of supply and demand, he understood the nature of business. He knew how to get the components and raw materials he needed at the lowest possible cost. That was the purpose of his strategy of bidding out smaller quantities. He knew a really large order would have the appearance of driving up demand which in turn would drive up the cost.


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Post subject: Re: Fender stock bass strings in the 50s/early 60s
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:59 am
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Thanks for the thorough information. So all the strings sold and put on guitars by Fender in the late 50s were made by V.C. Squier. Did the bass strings have silk ends? I'm trying to get the sound of Jet Harris of The Shadows who is known to have brought the first Precision bass in the UK in early 1960. He used it for a year and a half and, as far as I know, never changed strings. Here's a pic of him in the studio:
Image


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Post subject: Re: Fender stock bass strings in the 50s/early 60s
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:15 pm
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The tone you want may have originated from either the V.C. Squier made flats or Labella 760M's but it is far more likely that it came from Rotosound RS77LD Jazz flats. Being in the UK, Mr. Harris was a lifelong user of Rotosound flats. It is a known fact that he used them on his P-Bass. So for a significant part of his 4 string play my best guess is that his strings were the Rotosound Jazz RS77LD set in .045, .065, .085, .105 gauge. We old dogs are not very adventurous when it comes to trying different string sets and tend to stay with what works for us. For him it was Rotosound Jazz flats on his P-Bass.

If the Rotosound Jazz set doesn't get you there, then you can still buy the Labella 760M set. There are no new V.C. Squier strings sets, except of course in private collections and most of those I've ran across over the past 25 years or so have been single packed violin or mandolin strings. HOWEVER, the GHS Precision Flatwound 3050 set would be the closest contemporary set to the V.C. Squier flat bass sets of the late 50's/early 60's and the GHS has slightly lower tension than the Labella 760M set. The Labella 760M is the highest tension string I ever used and that is the only drawback to the Labella 760M set for me. I used the 760M set for a long time before switching to GHS 3050's and 3025's. GHS started up in Battle Creek about the same time V.C. Squier of Battle Creek was bought out by Fender, then shut down by CBS months later. Workers from V.C. Squier naturally migrated to positions at newly born GHS. So GHS flats are about as close to V.C. Squier as you are likely to get, but of course the GHS are not identical to V.C. Squier flats by any means. They sound brighter when new and last much longer before going dead because they are stainless instead of nickle plated steel like the V.C. Squier flats were.


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Post subject: Re: Fender stock bass strings in the 50s/early 60s
Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:42 am
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WOW, a very complete education on the early development and origin of electric bass strings. You guys really know your stuff. Thanks


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Post subject: Re: Fender stock bass strings in the 50s/early 60s
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:58 am
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Happy holidays! I've heard that Jet used Rotosound strings in his last years but I didn't know he used them back in the early 60s. His strings in the picture have blue silk though and the Rotosound RS77LD have red.


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Post subject: Re: Fender stock bass strings in the 50s/early 60s
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:25 am
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I have to fly with BD on VC Squire as I have been unable to find a reference of anyone that could have come between in house steel wound gut and vendor furnished by VC Squire. They were, without a doubt, on the scene very early on. In my travels on the subject I did stumble across the RDCV history of LaBella on their website. It is pretty bare bones but it was still interesting. Link below.

http://www.labella.com/history/

I think the LaBella760s mentioned are some of the smoothest winds in the business.

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Post subject: Re: Fender stock bass strings in the 50s/early 60s
Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:02 am
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Thanks for the info and happy new year! I still haven't changed the strings on the P bass because there's still some life in them but can't wait to do so. I guess another important thing is to have the dampener under the ash tray cover and have the right amount of muting by adjusting the action. Jet probably didn't setup his basses because he didn't know how. What were the Fender factory setup specifications in the 50s? Were they the same as now?


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Post subject: Re: Fender stock bass strings in the 50s/early 60s
Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:12 pm
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34346strat wrote:
Thanks for the thorough information. So all the strings sold and put on guitars by Fender in the late 50s were made by V.C. Squier. Did the bass strings have silk ends? I'm trying to get the sound of Jet Harris of The Shadows who is known to have brought the first Precision bass in the UK in early 1960. He used it for a year and a half and, as far as I know, never changed strings. Here's a pic of him in the studio:
Image




Isn't Jet looking quite dapper I must say.


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Post subject: Re: Fender stock bass strings in the 50s/early 60s
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:45 am
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Information like what was shared in this thread is what makes this forum special. Reminds me of when I used to frequent the FDP years ago. Good stuff.

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Post subject: Re: Fender stock bass strings in the 50s/early 60s
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:17 pm
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Yes, a VERY interesting read!


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Post subject: Re: Fender stock bass strings in the 50s/early 60s
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:32 am
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Thanks to the people who dug up info--and the ones who asked the questions--this is a cool thread, some interesting history.
It should be in a book.

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