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Post subject: Mystery strings
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:28 pm
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Time to replace the factory original flats on my AV57P. I made an assumption that they were 9050Ls. Went to make the change and found out I was wrong. The strings that came from Fender on the bass were slightly heavier and had blue threads. The 9050Ls have green threads.

So I emailed Fender customer service, gave them the serial number, so they could tell me what came on the bass before I bought another incorrect set. They emailed back 7250MLs and included a link to MF, so I bought them. When they came I took the pbass out again, took off the G (and unfortunately cut it to fit waste basket), tore open the package and discovered 7250s are round wound.

Two sets of strings I don't need.

I called a string retailer and asked if 9050MLs have blue threads. No, all Fender flats have green threads.

So what the heck do you think they shipped on my bass? It wouldn't bug me as much except this is my primary and I don't want to mess with it.

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Post subject: Re: Mystery strings
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:23 pm
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Called Fender today and talked with them, gave them a whole story again. They said while their records show 7250MLs, sometimes pbasses get shipped with D'Addario Chromes on them. Called D'Addario and they confirmed the Chromes have blue thread. I think the case is solved, I just have to mic them one more time to make sure they are the lights 45-100 and not the mediums 50-105. I assume, since I bought 7050Ls for it originally, that I already did that, but since I have no memory, I will check once more. They don't make a medium light.

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Post subject: Re: Mystery strings
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:11 pm
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Agree that is a pretty good mystery. And think you might have solved it.

It would be nice to get the right information on the spec sheets. 7250ML is the right answer by the specs. They were specified for the entire run of that model. The best possible guesses for what came on yours (which are out of spec by the way) are the 9050M Stainless Steel Flatwound (.055, .070, .090, .105 Gauges) or 9050ML Stainless Steel Flatwound (.050, .065, .085, .100 Gauges.)

The D'Adddario answer you just got is a wildcard third possibility that is entirely possible, especially if yours was made after they shut down Ensenada string production and before they got their string outsourcing to Fender specs established.

So far as I knew these always were specified with 7250ML rounds. I've seen no stock mass production fretted Fender bass, even those with vintage frets including the '57 AVRI or the Sting that actually need flats, specified as coming with flats except for fretless models.

Once I bought a Jazz specified as coming with a taper wound "E" string. It wasn't taper wound at all, so they obviously don't always adhere to the published specs when it comes to the strings. You'd think they'd change the spec sheet when they change the string sets they are using, but I guess specs are subject to change without notice so far as strings are concerned all through the run of the model. They likely consider it a very minor detail as many or most players change strings right away anyway and care little about using exactly the same set as came stock.

I don't know how long you've had yours or when it was made but Fender changes silk colors and packaging now and then. A packaging change was made not too awfully long ago on all Fender bass flats. It is possible yours got strings Fender had in inventory for a while, or it got the D'Addario Chromes that they owned up to you about using at times. I don't know for sure what happened there or even why yours came with flats at all as it was not specified with flats so far as I know.

Look at photos of a Fender Standard Fretless Jazz and the Jaco mass production artist series fretless here on the Fender site. Both are specified with 9050M's yet the Fender Standard Fretless Jazz has what are apparently either black or navy blue silks while the Jaco specified with the same 9050M set has NO visible silks. The reason is because the silks changed between the introduction of one instrument and the introduction of the other when stock photos would have been made. Apparently the green silk on all Fender bass flats now is the most recent change as Fender also changed the current packaging on all bass flats to a green based color.

So I wouldn't go so much by silk color as by gauge. If you can get your hands on a micrometer to measure the remaining 3 strings you should be able to deduce the correct set. Or just compare them to the stock set on your Jaco if you still have the stock flats on it. If they feel the same as your stock Jaco they are possibly 9050M's, if the Jaco strings seem beefier it is possibly the Fender 9050ML set. The 9050 is the only Fender flat series for a while, so it has to be in that series. UNLESS the D'Addario set got used on yours which is a new and distinct possibility. Still a measurement of the remaining three strings would be helpful even if you go with Chromes. Sounds like you are doing that already. Chromes are a good string and might be the right ones. Had no idea about their use on the AVRI basses. That is good info.


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Post subject: Re: Mystery strings
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:50 pm
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I am in Wisconsin so I ordered a set of the light Chromes. I am pretty sure I put a caliper on the strings at the beginning, or I would not have ordered the 9050Ls, but upon review, they feel a bit heavier, so I am thinking the ML since both have 100 but wind down more slowly.

I get home Wednesday night/Thursday morning. The D'Addarios should be waiting for me. If it is not those, it would almost have to be the 9050ML from a different time, as you suggested. I do not think it is the 9050L. Nor to I think it is the M of either mfg.

The bass was made in September of 2012, my bride bought it for me for Christmas and I think I got it the week after Thanksgiving, 2012. Played those strings for a year with no noticable deteriation to my ears, but got scared I might be missing something. What a can of worms a simple string change opened. Always learning something.

George, at D'Addario said they sell lots of strings to major guitar and bass manufactures but would have no idea where they are used. I wonder if I would get a similar answer from other string mfgs?

When I see the Chromes, measure the existing string diameter on the remaining three (before I open the package....duh) I will know if the case is closed, and will post that. Great idea to measure them against my Jaco. Not sure my caliper is the most accurate instrument for string measurement. Might have to pick up a micrometer down the road.

Steve

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Post subject: Re: Mystery strings
Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:18 pm
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Dave - as far as you know, has Fender ever used the GHS M3050 blue thread flats on any production or custom shop offerings?


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Post subject: Re: Mystery strings
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:31 pm
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PaducahLuke wrote:
Dave - as far as you know, has Fender ever used the GHS M3050 blue thread flats on any production or custom shop offerings?


Not as far as I know. Custom Shop might if you specifically request them, but usually Fender favors silked end strings and with very few exceptions like the recent transition and a brief use of Labella strings during another transition period Fender tended to use Fender strings since Leo Fender launched the string brand. Fender used Battle Creek made strings for years and years during the pre-CBS and early CBS eras but not from GHS.

I suspect there may have been some less than cordial feelings between Fender/CBS/V.C. Squier and GHS when GHS started up. Both were making strings in Battle Creek but only GHS does now. CBS first cut back and then completely shut down V.C. Squier in Battle Creek starting around the time GHS was founded. Then CBS moved the Squier string machinery and all the associated jobs to Fullerton. The CBS musical instrument division wasn't exactly beloved in Battlecreek after that. Some V.C. Squier people obviously and naturally migrated to GHS and no doubt would not exactly be jumping at the chance to make strings for CBS. V.C. Squier's Battle Creek "Fiddle Factory" had been in operation dating back to the 1890's employing generations in Battle Creek and then CBS comes in and shortly afterwards inexplicably shuts everything down after Leo Fender had left things virtually untouched after buying V.C. Squier. There had to be at least some bad blood between all of Battle Creek and Fender/CBS at the time. In reading historical accounts of what transpired I get the feeling that it was a complete shock to a lot of people in Battle Creek. At one time V.C. Squier was making strings for about anything with strings sort of like Labella does today. V.C. Squier was one of the top string making operations in the free world and developed the early wound metal violin strings. They had been a primary OEM supplier for Fender, then naturally progressed to packaging the first Fender branded strings under contract and then Leo bought the company outright before selling out to CBS.


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Post subject: Re: Mystery strings
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:04 pm
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:arrow: Rumor has it that Fender Flats have already been discontinued, and once the supply chain runs dry that'll be all she wrote. :evil:

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Post subject: Re: Mystery strings
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:29 pm
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What does it matter? Since Fender probably isn't making their own brand strings anyway.

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Post subject: Re: Mystery strings
Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:51 pm
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linnin wrote:
:arrow: Rumor has it that Fender Flats have already been discontinued, and once the supply chain runs dry that'll be all she wrote. :evil:


that's a terrible rumor,.... 9050's are a good flat wound string,... & great bang for the buck & they give Chromes a run for their money IMO..


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Post subject: Re: Mystery strings
Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:27 am
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affprod wrote:

So what the heck do you think they shipped on my bass? It wouldn't bug me as much except this is my primary and I don't want to mess with it.


"affprod" some good info above regarding your strings. Brother Dave hit on something which reminded me that I have an old set of Labella with blue silks. If Dave is correct (and I think he is) you could have a set of Labellas on your bass. Let me ask, is the winding very tight-spaced on the strings? In other words the strings would feel VERY smooth to the touch. Also are the silks on both ends of the strings? If so you may have rare placement of Labella on dat dere bass!


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Post subject: Re: Mystery strings
Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:31 am
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brotherdave wrote:
PaducahLuke wrote:
Dave - as far as you know, has Fender ever used the GHS M3050 blue thread flats on any production or custom shop offerings?


Not as far as I know. Custom Shop might if you specifically request them, but usually Fender favors silked end strings and with very few exceptions like the recent transition and a brief use of Labella strings during another transition period Fender tended to use Fender strings since Leo Fender launched the string brand. Fender used Battle Creek made strings for years and years during the pre-CBS and early CBS eras but not from GHS.

I suspect there may have been some less than cordial feelings between Fender/CBS/V.C. Squier and GHS when GHS started up. Both were making strings in Battle Creek but only GHS does now. CBS first cut back and then completely shut down V.C. Squier in Battle Creek starting around the time GHS was founded. Then CBS moved the Squier string machinery and all the associated jobs to Fullerton. The CBS musical instrument division wasn't exactly beloved in Battlecreek after that. Some V.C. Squier people obviously and naturally migrated to GHS and no doubt would not exactly be jumping at the chance to make strings for CBS. V.C. Squier's Battle Creek "Fiddle Factory" had been in operation dating back to the 1890's employing generations in Battle Creek and then CBS comes in and shortly afterwards inexplicably shuts everything down after Leo Fender had left things virtually untouched after buying V.C. Squier. There had to be at least some bad blood between all of Battle Creek and Fender/CBS at the time. In reading historical accounts of what transpired I get the feeling that it was a complete shock to a lot of people in Battle Creek. At one time V.C. Squier was making strings for about anything with strings sort of like Labella does today. V.C. Squier was one of the top string making operations in the free world and developed the early wound metal violin strings. They had been a primary OEM supplier for Fender, then naturally progressed to packaging the first Fender branded strings under contract and then Leo bought the company outright before selling out to CBS.

Dave, an amazing history lesson there, thanks!


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Post subject: Re: Mystery strings
Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:43 pm
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Flight is delayed, now not getting home until earlyThursday...still, glad to have left Wisconsin where it is supposed to go minus 10-15 tonight.

I do play some LaBella flats, just the fat flats, but they are very smooth. If their lighter gauge is as smooth, that it not what is on the bass in question. But I am certainly going to explore that if the D's are not right.

When I finally get this right, I will have to open a string store online just to sell open package overstocks....lol.

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Post subject: Re: Mystery strings
Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:03 pm
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affprod wrote:
When I finally get this right, I will have to open a string store online just to sell open package overstocks....lol.


Hire me, Steve. I've been unemployed for almost three years.

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Post subject: Re: Mystery strings
Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:41 pm
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Mr. Nylon wrote:
What does it matter? Since Fender probably isn't making their own brand strings anyway.


Nope they aren't. The long running string operation in Ensenada is history. Sort of sad when one knows that packaging Fender branded strings is how Fender Ensenada got started in the first place. Fender Ensenada was born in a small former church building with only a handful of employees packaging string sets. That was how the Fender Ensenada operation started up and look what it grew into! I'm 99% certain that D'Addario is making Fender strings now. They are outsourced to Fender specs and different from other D'Addario string sets. Outsourcing strings for the Fender brand is nothing new as Leo Fender did it with V.C. Squier who even packaged the Fender branded strings for over 20 years. They weren't great strings, but OK enough.


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Post subject: Re: Mystery strings
Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:07 pm
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It really is sad, but business hasn't been fair for some time. Just another instances of good people out of a job.

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