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Post subject: Introduction and a Vintage '51 P-Bass to share.
Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:32 pm
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Hi!
My name is Kerry Kroger I live in Missouri "Collect" and play Guitars and Basses etc.
Some were left to me when my dad died in 1991. I remember them being in the house all the time when I was growing up. Then they were in Mom's house, while I was in the Military. Then in 2011 there was a fire and it occurred in the room where the instruments were kept. My amplifiers were damaged and thought to be a total loss, Sunn Bass Amp and cabs, Marshall Head and cabs, and a Fender head and cabs... Rack equipment, and sadly some instruments did not make it. All received some smoke damage but very MINOR. All the cases were wrecked... The Amps have been rebuilt, the guitars are all in my home now so without further adieu I give you.
1951 P-Bass (Family Member)
Dad bought this bass in 1952 brand new, a Butterscotch blonde original.
Image
Original Receipt
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My Gear and Restored Amps.
Image


Last edited by kkroger on Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:50 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Introduction and a Vintage '52 P-Bass to share.
Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:42 pm
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Hi Kerry,

Welcome to the forum. The 52 looks pretty nice for being through a fire. Glad you were able to salvage it without any restoration. I collect vintage Fenders so if I can ever be of help, let me know.

Nice bass.

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Post subject: Re: Introduction and a Vintage '52 P-Bass to share.
Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:44 pm
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Most excellent! Thanks for sharing the photos and welcome to the bass Forum!


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Post subject: Re: Introduction and a Vintage '52 P-Bass to share.
Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:44 am
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How Cool is that !! :) Wow !! thanks for sharing Kerry & welcome tothe Forum..


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Post subject: Re: Introduction and a Vintage '52 P-Bass to share.
Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:57 pm
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Thanks! The 52 is all original save for the strings, I put Fender Stainless Flats on it.
I do have a question about the Bridge Ash Tray was there a factory applied foam or something Mute in there? There is sign of something having been glued in there.
I don't recollect dad making any changes, I also have some 78 RPM records with his voice and this bass on them. The instrument is 100% original cloth wrapped wire, original pots, pickup is original, years ago I removed the neck to see the pencil marks but the pages I wrote them down on and the pics I took are long gone. before the "Digital" days.
He always played through a craptastic silvertone (sears) amplifier. Would LOVE to have a TV front Bassman to go with it! I want to point out also that Dad only paid $203.49 for the bass when he bought it new. Adjusted for inflation is $1736 and change...
A NEW American Standard P-Bass runs around $1300 these days... Not bad...
Per Census figures the average annual income in 1952 was about $3900.... 2012 Average was about $56k
Here is another shot of the kids... Gibson 1957 Les Paul Junior
2000 Hotrod P-Bass, Gretsch Double Jet, The 52, Tele built from parts, MIM J-bass, Hamer Korina Standard, 12 String Bass.
Image


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Post subject: Re: Introduction and a Vintage '52 P-Bass to share.
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:24 pm
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Hi Kerry and welcome to the discussion board.

Fender basses had foam rubber mutes glued to the underside of the bridge covers up until the late 1970s if not later. Your dad's '52 ,which is very cool, by the way, certainly had a foam mute as part of its stock setup back in the day. Electric basses were trying to sound like an upright bass and that mute was key to the revolutionary tone of the first Fender bass.

That bass is in excellent shape for its age. Was your dad a working bass player or did he major on another instrument and the bass was just to round out a band or do some recording?

Bassists back then were having a lot of fun on the new Fender bass. What would you say to an instrument that was 1/6 the size of an upright bass and sounded louder through its amplifier than you could ever pull out of a string bass? Bass players loved it! :D

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Post subject: Re: Introduction and a Vintage '52 P-Bass to share.
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:46 pm
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I'll take some time one of these evenings to take the neck loose and copy down or photograph the pencil marks and numbers. Good stuff to have.
Here is a shot of another unique instrument that belonged to dad.
1937 Epiphone Electar Spanish.
Image
Dad was a working musician, Bass and Vocalist and played Guitar on a few tunes.
He built an Acoustic Guitar from a kit (I still have that one too)


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Post subject: Re: Introduction and a Vintage '52 P-Bass to share.
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:07 pm
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The foam was Sears brand self-adhesive rubber weatherstripping foam. It was slightly rounded on the side contacting the strings and it was solid rubber, not hollow or layered. Maybe that will help? It started out pretty hard compared to today's foam weatherstripping that is usually squared off instead of round, but it got almost as hard as a rock and shrank to the point where it was not really touching the strings and then eventually it usually fell off or chunked off in pieces. It lasts about 20 years before it starts degrading, that is so long as you don't expose the instrument to extremes. That was good weatherstripping! It was not the squared off spongy foam you see today at most hardware stores but was denser rubber and it was slightly rounded, so it would not compress as much as the spongy foam stuff in most hardware stores will today.


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Post subject: Re: Introduction and a Vintage '52 P-Bass to share.
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:21 pm
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Somewhere in all my treasures I have a photograph of Carol Kaye playing Bass in the studio, she played always with a pick and had a piece of felt taped across the strings down by the bridge... Muting gives a nice tight groove without a lot of ring...
I like the sound.
I'll see if I can find that picture!
This isn't the photo I had, but it shows Carol's "Double Felt" Mute system for pick players.
Image


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Post subject: Re: Introduction and a Vintage '52 P-Bass to share.
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:32 pm
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That's also a great photo because it shows a Precision bass hot rodded with Jazz p'up at the bridge. Have any idea of the date of that image?

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Post subject: Re: Introduction and a Vintage '52 P-Bass to share.
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:37 pm
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Pretty sure that is Late 60s Early 70s time frame...
Here are a few more pics of Dad's 52
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
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Post subject: Re: Introduction and a Vintage '52 P-Bass to share.
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:41 pm
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Pull off the ashtray and look at the saddles. There was a brass shortage back then and the saddles were made from pressed fiber. They have a tendency to fatigue and bow in the middle. If they look like half circles instead of round, that's okay, that's correct. But if they are sagging in the middle, I would suggest removing them and saving them with the bass. There are both metal and poly replacements available. Not the same, but under string tension the original fiber saddles will fail. IMO, better to keep the saddle in current condition than to let it fail. On the other hand, if the bass was stored with relaxed strings, your perfect saddles are worth almost $800, all by themselves. A nice surprise. I would still keep an eye on them and remove them at the slightest sign of fatigue.

Great bass. Christmas is coming up, I can give you my address.

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Post subject: Re: Introduction and a Vintage '52 P-Bass to share.
Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:30 am
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affprod wrote:
Pull off the ashtray and look at the saddles. There was a brass shortage back then and the saddles were made from pressed fiber. They have a tendency to fatigue and bow in the middle. If they look like half circles instead of round, that's okay, that's correct. But if they are sagging in the middle, I would suggest removing them and saving them with the bass. There are both metal and poly replacements available. Not the same, but under string tension the original fiber saddles will fail. IMO, better to keep the saddle in current condition than to let it fail. On the other hand, if the bass was stored with relaxed strings, your perfect saddles are worth almost $800, all by themselves. A nice surprise. I would still keep an eye on them and remove them at the slightest sign of fatigue.

Great bass. Christmas is coming up, I can give you my address.


Had never heard that about the saddles until now, Thanks!
What do you feel the instrument is worth.
It is not for sale, and I have taken it to "experts" for appraisal several times but once I tell them that it isn't for sale they kind of lose interest....


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Post subject: Re: Introduction and a Vintage '52 P-Bass to share.
Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:05 am
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The brass shortage was imposed by the U.S. government because we needed the brass for munitions to fight the Korean War in 1952. The truce was signed in 1953 and the war never technically ended, which is why things are still crazy over there.

All of the first-gen Precisions have the fiber saddles and most of them warp, so if yours are in good shape, that is a big plus for the value of this bass.

It seems to me that the whole bass is original from the knobs to the electronics and every screw used on it. That is a big plus as to what the value would be and as a result, I would be reluctant to guess what it is worth.

The only fair way is to research what similar basses have sold for.

Its great to see such a fine bass up close. Thanks and good luck with it.

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Post subject: Re: Introduction and a Vintage '52 P-Bass to share.
Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:45 am
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Yes all of the hardware, Bridge Saddles, Electrics, everything except the strings are original, I replaced the strings years back with Fender Stainless Flats.

I love the instrument, and nearly lost it in the fire.
I personally put out the fire in that room, before the fire dept arrived.
The instruments, mine and dad's were in their cases on a shelf in that room.
the plastic case for my P-Bass was like a shrinky dink, same with my strat case.
The Tweed cases that I had my Tele and this bass in were smoked hard, but not shrunk or melted. my Les Paul case was slightly melty but good on the inside it was a tolex case. The case that the Hamer Standard was in was a well road worn case.
Smoke wiped off of it. Mr Clean spray with a Miracle Eraser is amazing on the smoke!
My Marshall Stack received the brunt of the damage, Rusty Chassis, the speaker baffle in one cab was caved in and the fire department poured about a million gallons of water into that room even though the fire was out, they went in there with axes and shovels... Teh speakers in the bottom cab were soft from the water and heat I am sure.
Took several days to be allowed back in, the steel grilles on my SUNN Cabs were bubbled and rusted, Caustics in the smoke along with the initial heat no doubt.
My Fender Cabs were smoked BAD, but otherwise undamaged, Oxyclean in the bathtub to clean the grilles... Mr Clean and Magic Eraser on the outside...
I had Peter Mather build me some new cabs for the marshall so my DSL100 now has a vintage plexi look instead of a JCM800 look... and vintage cabs. The Fender stuff fared well through it all, two speakers in the bass stack 410 cab were damaged so I replaced them, 4 Speakers in the Marshall Stack were damaged so I replaced those.

When working on the insurance claims I discovered that the amount of coverage is limited and the actual VALUE of the items must be declared and itemized on the policy. so had I LOST this instrument I would have just been out.
I lost a Jackson Dinky Pro... and some other electronics not music related, a VOX AC15 Amplifier the Silverton Amp, a Mixer a Recorder, some other assorted stuff, Microphones, Some posters and such.


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