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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:43 pm
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Roadie
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affprod wrote:
Personally, I believe in your right to express your thoughts, no matter how much I disagree with them. And everyone on this forum with tell you this response is a first for me.

Two things, and then I am done also.

First. There was a legitimate question posted by someone looking for help. We try to offer help based on known and agreed upon references and data. You came in with an opinion, not unique by any means, but that of a small minority, and introduced it as fact. If this was this person's first bass, or first time using a Fender forum, your "I know it all and everyone else is crazy" response is out of line. If you have an opinion, express it, but express it as an opinion, not a fact.

Second. You try to prove your opinion by making fun of Fender owners with a great many years of experience, which in my case is 48 years since my first jazz purchase in 1965, and a current owner of at least one of every model bass Fender produced in its first 50 years. To support your opinion you resort to "tone wood snobs", " mob mentality" and suggestions that there is a Fender conspiracy, by insinuating it is intentionally misleading its buyers to sell more instruments and etc. Really? You will notice, while disagreeing with you, everyone responded with respect, except you.

Very disappointing on many levels. Sucks the enjoyment right out of life.

Okay, now I am done also. I promise you will not hear from me again.

still does not change the fact that wood is not a ferromagnetic material,. Agree To disagree, It doesn't get any more respectful than that, I said nothing of conspiracy, I said in a round about way that guitar companies are in the business of selling guitars, If they can get you to buy a more expensive guitar why would I fault them for that ? It's called capitalism the best system there is, I'm all for capitalism and marketing ploys do exist,. I am not insulting any instrument manufacturer or their consumers, A more expensive guitar is nicer to own than a cheap guitar, better quality control etc.. but the wood on an electric still is not magnetic, you can believe what you like and you are entitled to do so. but the science proves otherwise, I have not disrespected anybody and if you feel disrespected that sounds like a you problem


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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:28 pm
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Professional Musician
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Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:01 am
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This is my last thought= I think everyone knows that wood is not magnetic.

I used to work with engineers at an electronics company. They would swear by what their results were from their research. They'd say "it's all here in black and white". "I worked it out and my results say this works"..... later in the day after the device was built to spec I'd walk by and see them testing the device to find out why it didn't work. Engineers made the big bucks. Often a tech at his workbench in the back warehouse would figure out what was wrong with the device......and knew why it didn't work... because he sat there every day for 15 years - hands on .

This just kind of came to me because of the posts I read. It reminded me of what I used to see where I worked. :)


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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:55 am
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Professional Musician
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some guy on Bass Talk- Dan Atkinson started a thread about how wood has no effect on the sound of a guitar blah blah blah...... it's a bunch of pages and I didn't bother reading all the schlepp about blah blah blah-- So.. that's where I think this whole thing came from. I think some dude saw an opportunity to jump in and start talking to us like we're stupid about how wood has no effect on the sound of a guitar. :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


Last edited by stroker vance on Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:07 am
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Professional Musician
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Location: In the pocket north of Washington D.C.
Hey Kreature-I have one question for you.

If the material made no difference in the tone of the bass then why don't bass manuf. use plastic for bodies instead of wood?

It certainty would be cheaper. Hardwoods like swamp ash, hard rock maple and rosewood are not going down in cost.

They could do an A vs. B comparison and show that the wood makes no difference in the tone.

The reason they don't do this is that they have already tried to make basses out of plastic and they sound different. You can hear the difference in the tone of the bass.

Steinberger made a totally plastic bass called the L-2 starting in 1981. I own one and it is a nice bass but it doesn't sound like my Fenders. It is a different beast.

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If thine enemy wrong thee, buy each of his children a drum.


Last edited by BCbassman on Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:39 pm
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Rock Star
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Location: North of Pittsburgh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zywnb4xiec


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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:06 pm
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A magnet will stick to that Fender. Therefore it has no effect on the sound... of the magnet.


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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:29 am
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I haven't read any of this however I will say a couple of points with a summary:
- the whole structure of a guitar is about optimising the vibrating quality of the strings (the result of which PUPs measure)
- the body of a guitar is a large part of this structure.

I don't believe for a second that changes to the body will have no impact on this quality of the vibrations.

Having said this, you need to get to materiality:

- Will changing the type of paint have a material impact on sound in the short term??
I'd say highly unlikely, though if you measure vibration quality to the n'th degree (some nerd will) I bet you will find a difference.

- In the medium to long term? Maybe - I like the point about moisture release - this makes sense.

For most people, the difference from changing paint will be immaterial in the short - medium term, even though technically there may be a difference.


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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:45 am
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Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:31 am
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Kreature wrote:
edelstone wrote:
Yes the value will tumble - I am not doing it for value. It is just to have a customised look.

I have no idea about the type of bass - I haven't bought it yet. I am just trying to work out whether there is something about the finish of a guitar that impacts quality (outside of not bashing the PUPs)

the wood an electric guitar is made of, nor the finish will have any affect whatsoever on how that instrument sounds amplified, alot of people will tell you different, there are people that believe in nonsense such as tonewood for electrics, the reason for this is it has been repeated over and over again and people make themselves believe that the wood on an electric has an amplified sound, it doesn't any difference people think that they are hearing is pure pseudo effect,.guitar pickups are magnetic, wood is not a magnetic material. guitar pickups do not pickup the sound of the wood or the finish, what matters on an electric is the electronics, the tuners, the bridge, the nut and the brand of strings, these will affect the sound of an amplified electric,. the wood and finish will definitely not, the quality of the instrument as far as tone and playability will not be affected, I'm sure alot of these cork sniffing tonewood snobs are going to try and discredit what I am saying here,. and they can feel free to, if it makes them feel better to believe the myth then by all means, I am not here to argue with them,. the fact of the matter is wood and finish have no bearing on the sound of an amplified electric,. the guitar could be made of concrete or granite, it wouldn't matter so long as all the components and hardware are all identical in every way. Acoustic guitars are a completely different story, Wood and finish do affect the sound of Acoustics



This is no more true than saying wood 'definitely' affects amplified tone. Why? Because your stance is just as insupportable as saying that it does...there's no solid proof that supports either theory.

That said, if wood had no bearing on amplified tone, then the pesky phenomena known as a dead spot wouldn't exist, now would it?


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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:52 am
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I'm not an expert on refinishing guitars but that is something I have been considering, too.
I have read that, depending on the type of paint it has, it is better (e.g. easier, better results) to strip it than to sand it. Do a little research before you jump in.


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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:59 pm
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Professional Musician
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Take a Fender Strat turn up the volume --- plug it into a Marshall- turn it (Marshall) up about half way. Put your mouth close to the pickups and say hello loudly. Does the hello come thru the amp? Yes it does. Wrap towels around the Strat. As many as you can and then layer tape all around the towels as to encase the body in deadening material, Leave an open space over the pick up. Repeat the amp and guitar thing again. The voice still comes thru. Does it sound different ?


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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:33 pm
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Rock Star
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Location: Albemarle, NC
edelstone wrote:
Hi all

I have an itching to:
- sand back a Fender P-Bass to the wood
- let my 7yo nephew do whatever design he and I fancy
- seal it with a clear sealant.

So, questions:
1. Is this advisable in terms of impacting the guitar quality?
2. If I do it, are there things I need to keep in mind?

Cheers

James


Sorry James, I got distracted and neglected to chime in on your original post.

It might be better to do this on a modern mass produced instrument like a Fender Standard P-Bass than a classic CBS era back instrument. Even a Squier P-Bass would be a good platform for your concept.

Just remove the strings, unbolt the neck from the body, remove the pickguard and all electronics. You'll need to desolder some wires so make careful notes about what wires go where when you desolder. You can also make photos of the wiring. Remove the bridge too. Ok now you are down to just the wood and ready to go. Removing this poly paint and the primer sealer is a real chore. The wood underneath might be softer than you expect. Chemical strippers work on the top layers sometimes better than the primer sealer.

Once you get it down to bare wood you'll want to reapply a sealer primer. Otherwise the paint will just soak into the wood and get blotchy.

I see no reason it would negatively impact anything as long as the paint is not put on too thickly. If put on really thickly it will actually make the guitar heavier. Once done shoot it with a couple of passes of clearcoat.

An alternative might be to get a clear pickguard made from one of the aftermarket sources and have him paint the back of the clear pickguard. I've seen this done recently and if the concept is good such as in the GRUMPY bass you will really have something! Either way, painting the wood or painting an aftermarket clear pickguard it will be something you'll treasure I'm sure!

Here's the GRUMPY Bass another forum member, WI KISSFAN owns. I love this thing! It is a great unique instrument! Better still, to restore it to original condition all you have to do is just put the original pickguard back on!

Image


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