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Post subject: Painting a Fender
Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:16 pm
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Hi all

I have an itching to:
- sand back a Fender P-Bass to the wood
- let my 7yo nephew do whatever design he and I fancy
- seal it with a clear sealant.

So, questions:
1. Is this advisable in terms of impacting the guitar quality?
2. If I do it, are there things I need to keep in mind?

Cheers

James


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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:50 pm
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it might affect resale value, but the sound will not be affected, guitar pickups are magnetic wood and paint has no effect on the sound of an amplified electric


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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:58 pm
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Greetings! You ask a very good question but one that no one can answer until they know more about your bass, and many things come into play there. What year is it, where was it manufactured, what model is it, what is the current condition, has it already been refinished at least once, has it been otherwise modified, do you know the current value as it sits, and on, and on, and on. Tell us about your bass, post pictures, serial number if your care to share (or at least the first 4 letters/numbers with *** to indicate the length of the number) and we can give you an educated opinion.

One thing will hold true regardless. If your bass is original and has a factory fresh finish on it, and you refinish it, you have lost value. Figure 50% to have a ballpark idea.

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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:21 am
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Yes the value will tumble - I am not doing it for value. It is just to have a customised look.

I have no idea about the type of bass - I haven't bought it yet. I am just trying to work out whether there is something about the finish of a guitar that impacts quality (outside of not bashing the PUPs)


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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:27 am
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edelstone wrote:
Yes the value will tumble - I am not doing it for value. It is just to have a customised look.

I have no idea about the type of bass - I haven't bought it yet. I am just trying to work out whether there is something about the finish of a guitar that impacts quality (outside of not bashing the PUPs)

the wood an electric guitar is made of, nor the finish will have any affect whatsoever on how that instrument sounds amplified, alot of people will tell you different, there are people that believe in nonsense such as tonewood for electrics, the reason for this is it has been repeated over and over again and people make themselves believe that the wood on an electric has an amplified sound, it doesn't any difference people think that they are hearing is pure pseudo effect,.guitar pickups are magnetic, wood is not a magnetic material. guitar pickups do not pickup the sound of the wood or the finish, what matters on an electric is the electronics, the tuners, the bridge, the nut and the brand of strings, these will affect the sound of an amplified electric,. the wood and finish will definitely not, the quality of the instrument as far as tone and playability will not be affected, I'm sure alot of these cork sniffing tonewood snobs are going to try and discredit what I am saying here,. and they can feel free to, if it makes them feel better to believe the myth then by all means, I am not here to argue with them,. the fact of the matter is wood and finish have no bearing on the sound of an amplified electric,. the guitar could be made of concrete or granite, it wouldn't matter so long as all the components and hardware are all identical in every way. Acoustic guitars are a completely different story, Wood and finish do affect the sound of Acoustics


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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:06 am
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Kreature wrote:
edelstone wrote:
Yes the value will tumble - I am not doing it for value. It is just to have a customised look.

I have no idea about the type of bass - I haven't bought it yet. I am just trying to work out whether there is something about the finish of a guitar that impacts quality (outside of not bashing the PUPs)

the wood an electric guitar is made of, nor the finish will have any affect whatsoever on how that instrument sounds amplified, alot of people will tell you different, there are people that believe in nonsense such as tonewood for electrics, the reason for this is it has been repeated over and over again and people make themselves believe that the wood on an electric has an amplified sound, it doesn't any difference people think that they are hearing is pure pseudo effect,.guitar pickups are magnetic, wood is not a magnetic material. guitar pickups do not pickup the sound of the wood or the finish, what matters on an electric is the electronics, the tuners, the bridge, the nut and the brand of strings, these will affect the sound of an amplified electric,. the wood and finish will definitely not, the quality of the instrument as far as tone and playability will not be affected, I'm sure alot of these cork sniffing tonewood snobs are going to try and discredit what I am saying here,. and they can feel free to, if it makes them feel better to believe the myth then by all means, I am not here to argue with them,. the fact of the matter is wood and finish have no bearing on the sound of an amplified electric,. the guitar could be made of concrete or granite, it wouldn't matter so long as all the components and hardware are all identical in every way. Acoustic guitars are a completely different story, Wood and finish do affect the sound of Acoustics


I disagree. I'm not trying to discredit you, but it is no myth. Resonance effects tone by impacting duration and in fact can color tonal voicing to varying degrees.

Different woods and different quality woods not only matter, but matter a lot. The neck structural wood and fretboard material selection will matter as much as the body wood. Almost every bassist with any experience at all can immediately tell the tonal difference in playing a rosewood fretboard and playing a maple board. Therefore I don't agree with you and doubt many bassists with any real world experience actually would.

Additionally some finishes such as the vintage nitrocellulose lacquers allow the wood to continue losing moisture content meaning they continue getting lighter which makes them more resonant. Therefore finishes do matter. Anyone who says otherwise has never played a 1954 or 1957 or 1962 P-Bass lately.

Also you say "wood is not magnetic" and therefore wood can have no impact on magnetic pickups, yet you say the nut matters to tone and I wondered if you used some sort of special "magnetic nut" to interact with the magnetic pickup.

How exactly do the tuners impact tone more than the wood used in the body, neck and fretboard? How are the tuners interacting with the magnetic pickup that is over 2 feet away?

I'm not a snob, after all I'm talking with you. Your "I'm right and everyone who disagrees with me is just a cork sniffing snob" approach is a less than a mature point of view. Everyone has an opinion and should be able to express it. You expressed yours and I've expressed mine. Good luck with your concrete bass.


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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:44 am
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I know for a fact that refinishing a bass does impact the sound of the bass. I've had my 74 refinished 2wice and have learned this thru the experience of having it done. That's not the only guitar painting I've been involved with also. I will go to the extent to say if you stripped the finish off a guitar is may just make it sound better !! Ask some guitar builders about this topic. I think anything more than something like Danish oil or Tongue oil will start to deplete the action of vibration coursing thru the wood. There... I said it. Take it leave it- it's all good and we still get along just fine. :D


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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:11 am
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Just Do It!

You'll both have fun, and a unique piece of art you can play when you are done.

I'd just buy a used Squier bass. You're going to have dismantle it totally. The finish is very thick so I'd recommend using a chemical stripper for furniture, and then sand & seal.

Initiate art process and then clear poly. Presto!

We Fendermen know that our basses are already works of art that you can play, so great choice!

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One day they shall name a GREAT city after me, and they shall call it LINNINGRAD


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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:42 pm
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I am not trying to disrespect anybody either, you all can believe what you like, if you really believe that finish and wood effect an electric guitars tone then have at it, I know it does not. Any effect one thinks they are hearing is psychosomatic, The brain just works that way, If you choose to believe it then it will be realer than real to you,. but the facts are pickups are magnetic, wood and finish are not,


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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:35 pm
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I agree with linnin. If you want to have some fun, pick up a used Squire and have a ball. Just don't do it with a collectable bass.

I also agree with Brother Dave about woods an finishes, and I have first hand experience with these differences, especially as a bass ages. But let's see what the professionals at Fender think about wood effecting bass and guitar tone.

http://www.fender.com/news/tech-talk-ash-and-alder/

As you can see, the company that builds these high quality basses and guitars, believe different woods produce different tonal results. I guess it is up to you which opinion you want to go with. I wouldn't let it mess with your project, either way.

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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:34 pm
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Kreature wrote:
I am not trying to disrespect anybody either, you all can believe what you like, if you really believe that finish and wood effect an electric guitars tone then have at it, I know it does not. Any effect one thinks they are hearing is psychosomatic, The brain just works that way, If you choose to believe it then it will be realer than real to you,. but the facts are pickups are magnetic, wood and finish are not,




Man you are so way off on that. Don't want to argue or anything but a statement like that is flabbergasting. But you are a nice guy maybe. I bet you don't play bass and that's okay too !! Some of us on the bass forum have 40+ years of experience with that kind of stuff. If you ever have a chance to do some comparing - please do- and keep an open mind.


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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:30 pm
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I have no desire to make enemies or argue, I personally do not believe the marketing tactics that lead people to believe that the wood on an electric guitar matters, if the pickups are microphonic then yes the wood could attribute to the sound, but the thing is pickups are not supposed to be microphonic, pickups are magnetic, the wood is only an anchor for the neck, bridge, strings etc.. holding a guitar against your body kills most of the body resonance anyway, pickups do not pickup body resonance, they only pickup the string breaking the magnetic field, the body has no affect on how said string oscillates, the factors for string oscillation include only the pieces that the strings come in direct contact with, ie, a pick, the bridge, the nut, the tuners, the fret wire and a players fingers, these factors along with the electronics are where an electric guitars tone comes from, the wood the guitar is made of is the least important factor,. I will admit that if the guitar happens to be a string through body then there might be a slight difference, but that is the only scenario in which I would reconsider, Generally people in groups have a mob mentality, If the majority says one thing enough people tend to believe it, the lie of tonewood on an electric has been repeated so much over the years that people have made themselves believe it, I don't expect to change your mind if you are set in your ways so be it, But the science of how it all works says differently,. If a guitar manufacturer can charge you more for some exotic piece of wood of course they will, and of course they will perpetuate the myth of tonewood on electrics, why would they sabotage themselves ?? they wouldn't, The reason a cheap guitar doesn't sound as good straight off the shelf as a more expensive guitar has nothing to do with the wood, It is because the hardware and electronics are not of equal quality, You can take a cheap 200$ electric guitar and put 250$ worth of upgrades and it will play and sound just as good as more expensive guitars, You don't have to take my word for it, Do your own research and draw your own conclusions, I have researched this topic extensively and have come out on the other end with the truth, Lets just agree to disagree


Last edited by Kreature on Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:33 pm
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To clarify when played acoustically (unamplified) you will hear a difference, but once that guitar is amplified any difference you may think you hear is pseudo effect, Acoustic guitars are a different story entirely and the wood definitely defines the tone of an acoustic, ok I'm done here we can agree to disagree


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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:59 pm
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Personally, I believe in your right to express your thoughts, no matter how much I disagree with them. And everyone on this forum with tell you this response is a first for me.

Two things, and then I am done also.

First. There was a legitimate question posted by someone looking for help. We try to offer help based on known and agreed upon references and data. You came in with an opinion, not unique by any means, but that of a small minority, and introduced it as fact. If this was this person's first bass, or first time using a Fender forum, your "I know it all and everyone else is crazy" response is out of line. If you have an opinion, express it, but express it as an opinion, not a fact.

Second. You try to prove your opinion by making fun of Fender owners with a great many years of experience, which in my case is 48 years since my first jazz purchase in 1965, and a current owner of at least one of every model bass Fender produced in its first 50 years. To support your opinion you resort to "tone wood snobs", " mob mentality" and suggestions that there is a Fender conspiracy, by insinuating it is intentionally misleading its buyers to sell more instruments and etc. Really? You will notice, while disagreeing with you, everyone responded with respect, except you.

Very disappointing on many levels. Sucks the enjoyment right out of life.

Okay, now I am done also. I promise you will not hear from me again.

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Post subject: Re: Painting a Fender
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:27 pm
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linnin wrote:
Just Do It!

You'll both have fun, and a unique piece of art you can play when you are done.

I'd just buy a used Squier bass. You're going to have dismantle it totally. The finish is very thick so I'd recommend using a chemical stripper for furniture, and then sand & seal.

Initiate art process and then clear poly. Presto!

We Fendermen know that our basses are already works of art that you can play, so great choice!


Nice comments.

This what I am planning - buy a MIM or Squier and (carefully) go to town on it for practice - maybe a better one later.

I saw a well used P-Bass not long ago: lost all its finishing paint with drawing all over it - looked as cool as $@!&!


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