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Post subject: Re: Caps
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:37 pm
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I have a Classic 50's P bass that I changed out pickups and cap. I bet you would agree that the bass sounds better than it did AND that it really didn't sound bad to begin with. I'm glad I modded mine. I don't think I'd ever get rid of it. Same with my Roadworn P which is pretty close to the same thing as a Classic 50's.

From now on I'm 500k pots in P basses and 05 (473 whatever) caps.


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Post subject: Re: Caps
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:02 am
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dunderstorm wrote:
Very glad to have stumbled on this thread. I recently got into wiring my own electronics and have been "cap rolling" with my 50's Classic Precision bass. After swapping out the stock pup with a 62 Original I decided to mess with some other cap values and makes. I replaced the stock .1 cap with a small, blue cylindrical cap that I got from a friend who builds amps. It's a .047 with a small sticker and the word "Molded" printed on it. I much prefer this value and type to the .1 Gudeman PIO I had tried previously. The "molded" cap is kind of a mystery to me as far as type...I see conflicting info that states these are paper in oil and others that say its a poly cap. Either way,
I like it alot. I also have some NOS Sprague VQ .047 200v that I'm going to try next, being that I really like this value and like to tinker. Anyone know about the construction of these "blue molded" caps? I also tried a big green Cornell Dubillier .05 400v that I liked as well but again, couldn't find much info on the makeup.


You got any photos of MOLDED BLUE cap? I have used Gudeman's and they are good Vitamin-Q clones. Any .1 cap is too dark for me on any Fender bass. There may be little difference between it and the VQ 0.047uF.


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Post subject: Re: Caps
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:55 am
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jlarocho wrote:
Okay! So here's my two cents to this topic. Here I found several links that describe or explain the use of potentiometers and capacitors in a guitar/bass! However, some articles say that there is a difference in tone between types of caps. Based on what I know about capacitors in automotive electronics (which by the way work the same but with a different purpose) to me there's no difference. Only when you change the caps value is when you can notice the difference. As stated in the link from Seymour Duncan, the tone cap only works when you roll off the tone potentiometer.

Concerning potentiometers, the higher the resistance the brighter the sound. Standard potentiometers for passive guitars and basses are the 250 to 500 Kohms (250 to 500 thousand ohms) of resistance, but I believe that you can go up to 1Mohm (1 million ohms). Check the last link from Stewart Mac Donald. I think I'm going to try those 1Mohm potentiometers! I'll let you know!

Enjoy reading!




I'm talking CAP TYPES IN BASS APPLICATIONS. Joe Gore is talking Spanish electric probably plugged into a an amp with no tweeter and a whole bunch of inherent distortion of at least 2% to 8%. OF COURSE MR. GORE WILL HEAR NO DIFFERENCE IN CAP TYPES! (It is important to note that saying, "As stated in the link from Seymour Duncan," it is like quoting me here and saying it must be true because it was at a link on the LEO FENDER site. Same thing. Seymour Duncan didn't say it, Joe Gore said it. I'd like to hear what Seymour Duncan or Bill Lawrence have to say about it. If Bill Lawrence says there is no difference in cap types used in a guitar circuit into a hi-fi amp then I'll believe that my ears LIED TO ME OVER AND OVER. I think I already have a good idea what he'd say because he's not an idiot and nobody has experimented with capacitance and inductance mods more than Bill Lawrence.

I have no argument with Dirk Wacker at Premierguitars EXCEPT I don't think Orange Drop Poly Caps sound anything but vanilla and would never describe them as having "Fendery" tone. The vintage ceramics have that.

electric-guitar-info.com doesn't really SAY anything about cap types.

I'm only into passive basses so 1 meg pots are out for me. I also stick to CTS brand audio taper pots as a rule. Do let us know how your 1meg pot experience goes. I don't think you'll like it much.


Last edited by brotherdave on Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Caps
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:46 am
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brotherdave wrote:
dunderstorm wrote:
Very glad to have stumbled on this thread. I recently got into wiring my own electronics and have been "cap rolling" with my 50's Classic Precision bass. After swapping out the stock pup with a 62 Original I decided to mess with some other cap values and makes. I replaced the stock .1 cap with a small, blue cylindrical cap that I got from a friend who builds amps. It's a .047 with a small sticker and the word "Molded" printed on it. I much prefer this value and type to the .1 Gudeman PIO I had tried previously. The "molded" cap is kind of a mystery to me as far as type...I see conflicting info that states these are paper in oil and others that say its a poly cap. Either way,
I like it alot. I also have some NOS Sprague VQ .047 200v that I'm going to try next, being that I really like this value and like to tinker. Anyone know about the construction of these "blue molded" caps? I also tried a big green Cornell Dubillier .05 400v that I liked as well but again, couldn't find much info on the makeup.


You got any photos of MOLDED BLUE cap? I have used Gudeman's and they are good Vitamin-Q clones. Any .1 cap is too dark for me on any Fender bass. There may be little difference between it and the VQ 0.047uF.
I'll have to figure how to upload from my mobile device but its much smaller then the ones with rounded ends that google images Google images dispalys...apparently they're very popular for amp builds. From what I gather, it's likely a Mallory. I swapped it for the VQ last night and call me nuts, but there was definitely a notable difference, although slight. While the Molded sounded great, the VQ almost has a more musical quality to it that seems to make the tone more 3 dimensional, meaning that the lows, low mids, high mids and treble all seem to leak into one another on every setting. The molded seemed slightly less gradual in its roll off while the .1 was "here's all the bass you want and on this side is all the treble you want"...a little less "in between" if that makes sense. Most notable in the change of values was the creaminess of the tone when overdriving the gain stage on my amp. The .47's definitely seem better suited for distortion applications, which is a good thing because I tend to use a touch of dirt via my VTBass pre.


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Post subject: Re: Caps
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:32 pm
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Here's a pic of the blue "molded" cap:
[img][IMG]http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/sub5ound/a57ce297-927c-4019-bdf8-3624ff5ba77d.jpg[/img][/img]


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Post subject: Re: Caps
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:31 am
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It is a paper in wax cap. Possibly military spec.


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Post subject: Re: Caps
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:00 pm
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What was the most common ceramic cap maker utilized by Fender once they switched over in the 50's?


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Post subject: Re: Caps
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:52 pm
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dunderstorm wrote:
What was the most common ceramic cap maker utilized by Fender once they switched over in the 50's?


Hard to say. Leo Fender's Fender was notorious for having OEM suppliers provide quotes on small lots and going with the low bidder. I honestly don't know for sure who won most often but see a lot with the Circle D stampings which means Dielectron Corporation. Also I see RMC which means Radio Materials Corporation which became associated or owned by Mallory at some point would be one guess. I have seen other brands like Sprague which would be another guess. It actually would have been whoever was cheaper the most times when they got down to a two week inventory at Fullerton. They all are about the same. The Dielectron ones are a tougher find.


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Post subject: Re: Caps
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:54 pm
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I have a few NOS Erie 'red' .05's and I was thinking of throwing one in one my next project. I'd been using 57'/.01 wiring forever and realized I haven't rocked an old school ceramic .05 in the maple neck, late 50's incarnation yet! I never really bothered with them (I've been on the PIO kick) because I wasn't sure if they were as good as the old Circ D's I've always used. They're much smaller and in the 25v range. It seems Fender did in fact use the Erie Reds from what I gather, but its hard to pin a date on when they were used for the P bass. As has been mentioned, lowest bidder got the job so they might have been on production instruments for a day and a half, lol.


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Post subject: Re: Caps
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:47 pm
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bumpity-umpity!

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Post subject: Re: Caps
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:39 am
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This thread should be 'stickied' :wink: jus' sayin'... 8) I just posted a link to this thread over on talkbass :mrgreen:


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Post subject: Re: Caps
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:23 am
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Tell me you can hear the difference in caps, but not between modelling amps and tube amps, different P pick ups, maple vs rosewood, and graphite rods. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Caps
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:45 am
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As an aside. I like the .1's on the Single Coil (51), and I like the .05's on a split coil with a maple board (57). I don't care for modern P tone. While it's still better than other basses. It just doesn't sound as rich and smooth in my opinion. Which is why I never cared for the tone in the American Standard basses. Whether you put 62RI pups or Custom Shop 60's pups in them. They don't sound vintage. To be fair, I've actually played two of the Fender Custom Shop 60's P models. They didn't sound vintage either. So that's not really a mark against the American Standard. It's a mark against the Custom Shop for what they've been churning out lately and calling "vintage".

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Post subject: Re: Caps
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:03 am
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This thread needs to resurface.

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Post subject: Re: Caps
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:43 pm
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Okay linnin, try this then. I have a .022 cap on one of my 63Ps. It's fun. I think I lose a little on the bottom, but the mids are absolutely wonderful, very clear. Since the cap was put in during a complete upgrade, not sure if that is the reason for the cool sound, so I am going to to try others. It is a player bass, so I am not hurting anything.

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