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Post subject: Frequency Disruption?
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:55 am
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I think this is an amp issue, but since it also includes my AV57P, thought I would post it here.

At practice yesterday, for the second time, I had sound issues. Picture playing the same note on two strings that are slightly out of tune with each other. That kind of wawawawawa not quite right sound. It is making me nuts. With the bass, I am using a Fender Rumble 100 combo.

I have been using this bass/amp combo at practice as primary since late spring, without issue.

There have been some changes in the practice facility setup.

I recently picked up a Yamaha PA with 15's in both the primaries and monitors. For practice, we have the primaries angled towards us too.

I am setting up in gig position, stage right, behind the primaries where I used to set up in front of them, using a primary as a monitor and aiming the Rumble towards the band.

Our lead guitar has recently gone wireless too, but we seem to have worked out channel issues.

Our b/u bass player, jazz w/10" cab, amp unknown, has no issue standing right next to me, amps side by side as a test.

The problem seems to go away if I play through the PA.

At home, although quieter and shorter sessions, I have not been able to reproduce the issue with the same bass/amp combo.

What do you think?

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Post subject: Re: Frequency Disruption?
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:58 am
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PS. I have plugged in directly using a cable and it did not resolve the issue.

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Post subject: Re: Frequency Disruption?
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:57 pm
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Many times I had a problem very similar to what you describe. The thing that was happening was the warble between the bass freq of the bass drum OR the bass freq of the guitar or the bass freq of the keyboards or the bass freq 's coming thru the PA or monitors or both- clashing with the bass freq of my bass. The guys just had too much bass on their stuff and the soundman didn't pan things left and right like he should. I've had this at practice and at gigs. In my case I just told the guys there was to much bass on their instruments. Once they turned down the bass on thier amps etc all was good. With the bass drum - the soundman just eq'd the bass drum differently than my bass. It was very annoying and sometimes caused feedback. This happens alot. Maybe that's what you are hearing.


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Post subject: Re: Frequency Disruption?
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:56 am
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Could be a couple of issues.

Firstly, a speaker phase issue. Since you have bass coming out of the combo, the monitors and the mains you can suspect that something could be out of phase one place which would make them all sound bad. One speaker cable out of phase will cause exactly what you are describing. The XLR patched to the PA could be out of phase, which would also cause it, but it is more likely to be a speaker cable. The monitors or mains could have one cable that is out of phase. Check every cable with a multimeter to make sure a cable isn't out of phase, meaning wired backwards where on one cable tip on one end winds up ground on the other. The speaker will still work like that but being out of phase will cause loss of lows. Usually cabs and monitors are fine and don't have to be checked, but if you've recently added something new I'd check it for correct phasing.

Secondly, could be a standing wave. You changed the setup orientation and that could be causing a standing wave to make that noise. Try repositioning cabs, monitors and mains. They should not point at each other.

Third, power amp/preamp malfunction. Get the power amps checked. I'd only worry about this if you check all cables and they are in phase plus you rule out a standing wave.


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Post subject: Re: Frequency Disruption?
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:12 pm
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Hey Stroker and Brother Dave,

Thank you very much. I have some things to work on now, other than going nuts from the cruddy sound. I really appreciate your input.

Steve

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Post subject: Re: Frequency Disruption?
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:39 pm
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Did you figure out what was causing the problem?


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Post subject: Re: Frequency Disruption?
Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:32 am
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stroker vance wrote:
Did you figure out what was causing the problem?



You left me hangin'. :)


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Post subject: Re: Frequency Disruption?
Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:01 pm
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Sorry, been up to my elbows in alligators and missed your post.

No. I go along with the frequency disruption because the amp works fine at home, and there was no issue there till I bought the new PA.

Last practice I set up and played several riffs before any other equipment was turned on. NP. We turned on one at a time, I still sounded good. We got into practice, same stuff happened.

The sound guy had the primaries turned quarter back towards us. So we had those and the monitors, all 15s, coming in. Saturday, we are going to point the primaries outward and/or, I am going to set up in front of them.

I am also going to take my Bassman 135, 2 x 15 down this weekend, just to see if it is a "who moves the most air" thing. The backup bass was playing with a single 12 cab and had no issue.

I passed along the comments about the drum and keyboard cutting their bass and I think we will give that a shot too.

Meanwhile, I am reading the amp posts "If not Fender, What?" and seeing what else I want to try. I would like a few more watts, but I am an old fart, it has to be reasonable to tote around. Taking my vintage set out of the house Saturday makes my back hurt just thinking about it.

Sorry for missing your post.

Steve

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Post subject: Re: Frequency Disruption?
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:09 pm
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Epifani makes high watt, light weight, killer sounding cabinets.


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Post subject: Re: Frequency Disruption?
Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:31 pm
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Set up out front of the primaries at today's practice. No issues at all. I fell a little better about our upcoming gig. I will run the Rumble into the PA and just use it as a personal monitor.

This will be a unique experience, partly because of the multi national audience, but also..... I mean have you ever played Born To Be Wild in a tuxedo? :)

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Post subject: Re: Frequency Disruption?
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:27 pm
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When I was recording I had a problem with low and middle frequency warble- aka clashing tones. The way I fixed it was to ever so slightly E Q the bass frequencies on all the instruments differently and did the same with the lower mids on guitar and keys. Then I panned everything just a tad. "Soundmans disease" will never get this job done quite right. One has to have reserve and must not adjust to drastically. That is of utmost importance. I can't tell you how often I've encountered guys with "Soundmans Disease". Turn it up. Turn it down . Turn it up. Turn it down, Turn it up and on and on all day. This happens with soundmen AND guitar players mostly. It seems like they can't turn a knob less than 1/4 inch ever.


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Post subject: Re: Frequency Disruption?
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:59 am
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Hey Steve, try some of these for you and your band.
http://forums.fender.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=88674
I think they're great! 8)

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Post subject: Re: Frequency Disruption?
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:14 pm
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And out soundman is new... brand spanking....husband of our female lead singer. So those are points I will bring forward. And Linnin, thanks. I am definitely going to check that out.

I appreciate the input.

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Post subject: Re: Frequency Disruption?
Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:14 pm
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Added subs to the Yamaha PA, now 6 x 15 between the subs, primaries and monitors. Tonight I plugged my Line 6 wireless right into the board and, using the 60J, never sounded so fine on our rock numbers. (I always have fun playing, but tonight was special. Even so, taking my 57(AV)P to the big gig next Saturday.)

The more I learn, the more frustrating it gets to an inquisitive mind, and the more expensive. If only my Bassman weighed as little today as it did when I played my Showman 2 x 15 in the 60s/70s. No problem hauling it back then. But over the years those vintage cabs seem to have gained about one hundred pounds. Dust?

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Post subject: Re: Frequency Disruption?
Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:02 pm
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I was crazy back in the 70's. I would lug 2 ---8/10 Ampeg cabinets, No way I'd even think of one 8-10 these days. The funniest thing was the guys in the band would never help me! Can't blame them I guess. I learned my lesson by the middle 80's.


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