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Post subject: MIA Precision - Nut slots too wide?!
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 3:25 pm
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Hi all,

This is my first post here - greetings to all of you! :)

A few days ago I got my 2012 American Standard Precision bass (and I love it, BTW!) and it came with the 8250M stock strings. Size is 45, 65, 85 and 110. Those strings perfectly fit into the slots of the nut. They sit in the slots not too tight but at the same time they just cannot move sidewards.

As I wanted to use flatwounds for this bass I put some Thomastik-Infeld flats on it with the size 43, 56, 70 and 100. Well, especially the A string seems to be too thin for the A string nut slot as I can move it sidewards now. Although this has no effect on sounding (no buzz at all) I am a bit unsure now whether the TIs are the correct strings for this bass. BTW, the windings of the A string tuner go all the way down to the bottom. So the pressure of the A string on the nut is at its maximum.

Same for La Bella 760FL, the nut is also a bit too wide for the A string.

I would really like to use the TI flats but am a bit unsure now what to do. On the other side, it would be a pitty if I could only use strings that exactly fit into the slots and it will limit the range of adequate strings also.

So, is this by design? Will I have to use strings which are thicker?

I very much appreciate any reply.

Many thanks and cheers,
Markus


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Post subject: Re: MIA Precision - Nut slots too wide?!
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 3:46 pm
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Hi Markus,

Welcome to the forums. This is a new one on me. I'm sure someone will be able to give you an answer.


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Post subject: Re: MIA Precision - Nut slots too wide?!
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:11 pm
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I know you will have a ton of intonation issues with undersized strings. There has to be a dimensional tolerance a nut will properly accept, but we will both have to wait for another answer to find out what that is.

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Post subject: Re: MIA Precision - Nut slots too wide?!
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 7:23 pm
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The Plot Thickens!


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Post subject: Re: MIA Precision - Nut slots too wide?!
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 8:02 pm
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Hi Markus,
It's funny that I read your thread just now because I put a set of TI Jazz Flats on my P bass today. I've used them before and they're great strings. I had to let some tension off the neck and I'm letting it settle in over night, before tweaking it tomorrow. I might want to raise the saddles a bit too.

Yes, the nut slot for the A string is normally cut for an .085 string and the A on the TI's is a .070, but that shouldn't be a problem. It's best to NOT CUT the A string on this set. If it is left at it's full length you'll get the angle you need and it should sound normal and seat in like it should. But the TI's lower tension can mean you need your set up tweaked, as I did mine earlier today.

Even if you are already doing your own basic set ups you might want to take it to a good repairman for this problem. Don't be alarmed because this is common and can be fixed. Good luck and enjoy the strings!


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Post subject: Re: MIA Precision - Nut slots too wide?!
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 9:18 pm
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You could have a tech make a new nut custom slotted for the JF344 set's funky gauge and put it on your instrument. Nut blanks are pretty cheap, however the files to cut the slots aren't cheap, and it is somewhat of an art requiring some experience at nut slotting to get the proper spacing, depth and smoothness. Some people can turn out a good one using some "home-cooking" but on an instrument of this quality I'd seek someone who knows exactly what they are doing. I would NOT do this myself.

If it isn't causing a problem, rattles etc, you can leave it as it is. Too large a nut slot isn't nearly as big a deal as too small a nut slot.

I've also seen people tear off a tiny part of a matchbook cover and put it in the nut slot under the string. I'm not suggesting you do that, but I've seen it done.


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Post subject: Re: MIA Precision - Nut slots too wide?!
Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 5:47 am
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While I shudder at the thought of not using a set of new strings as they are so expensive. Have you thought about switching gauge or brand? There are guys here who swear by everything. Rotos, TIs, Fenders. Personally, when using flats I always use the Fender 9050 MLs. They have always fit perfectly on every P I've ever owned. Wether it be an MIM Standard or my 51 RI P. The A is an 85. Though you could even try the SLs which will still give you the 100 gauge E, but an 80 A and that should still fit snug enough into the slot. I've only played the Fender Ms once and found the 105 E to be very heavy to move at high speeds. (Flats and rounds responding differently to attack and all)

I would think that unless you are dead set on using the TIs that filling a nut unless you can actually do it yourself is a bit extreme. If you were chasing a specific tone for a recording or a paying gig maybe. For regular playing and gigging I'd just find a set of flats that work for both you and the bass.

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Post subject: Re: MIA Precision - Nut slots too wide?!
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:16 pm
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Hi guys, many thanks! I really appreciate all your replies! :D

@oxfan
Thanks for your welcome - your guess proofed to be correct! :wink:

@affprod
I had no intonation issues with the thinner strings. Maybe those strings are really covered by the dimensional tolerance of the nut.

@63-pbass
As I mentioned the A string is long enough and the windings go to the bottom of the A string tuner. So the angle is sharp enough and puts the string with maximum pressure onto the nut. Hope you get what I mean, maybe 'sharp' is not the correct term.

When I understood you right you have the TIs already on your P bass and you also have a little bit too much space within the A string nut? Similar or equal to what I have? Are you going to let the nut be modified or replaced or will you leave it just as it is?

@brotherdave
I will not let someone replace or modify my nut (or even do it by myself) as long as I have no tonal issues.
What I guess (and hope) is: Fender has designed the nut of the 2012 MIA Preci to be perfect for 45-110 with the possibility to also use somewhat thicker or thinner strings. If this would NOT be the case it would mean that only the stock string sizes are adequate and that using other sizes is not intended. Or in other words, it is logical that using slightly thinner strings will leave some space between the strings and the nut sides. If this is correct then I would be OK with that.

Or do you guys always replace or modify your nut as soon as you want to use string sizes other than the stock strings?

@The KingOf Pain
No, I am not dead set on playing the TIs. I could live with nearly every flats that do not have too much tension. From tension side James Jamerson and Steve Harris are not my best friends.

Any suggestions from you guys on flats that could be used 'string through body'? I know that for instance La Bellas should better not be strung through the body. Are there any flats I could use instead?

THX!


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Post subject: Re: MIA Precision - Nut slots too wide?!
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:10 pm
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I've done exactly teh same with my 2012 USA P: fitted a set of Ti jazz flats as soon as I got the bass. The nut for the A string does leave the Ti 'A' with quite a bit of space, but I've had no intonation, tuning or other problems with it.

At one point early on I noticed a slight 'click' from the A string at the nut when playing hard on the 'D' - my plucking finger was hitting the A & causing it to click in the nut. I just rewound the A a little lower on the peg & its been fine ever since (~12mths).

Fit the Tis & if you don't hear any problems there's yr answer. If you do get problems (unlikely), as another poster said you can stick a bit of paper under the string on the nut to bulk it up, or at worst get a new Ti-specific nut fitted. The Tis are really great strings on a P, so it'd be crazy to not use them just on the off chance there'll be an issue. Just wrap them as far down the peg as poss & go play that thing!

hth


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Post subject: Re: MIA Precision - Nut slots too wide?!
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:38 pm
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Perfect! Glad it worked out.

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Post subject: Re: MIA Precision - Nut slots too wide?!
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:56 pm
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The Fender flats work well on string through body, but they are very high tension. So you might want to skip those afterall. I'm pretty sure Steve Harris uses Rotos and Rotos are definitely lower tension than Fenders in my experience. So if you don't like his sig strings then you likely won't like the Fenders. I like my Flats with high tension and high action so they work for me. Best of luck!

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Post subject: Re: MIA Precision - Nut slots too wide?!
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:04 pm
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Markus, I've used the TI Flats on several basses and have them on my P bass right now.

The fact that the A string is smaller than the slot is not a problem unless the string has been cut too short. It's not uncommon to need to readjust the truss rod, saddle height, and/or intonation to accommodate the lower tension strings though. TI Jazz Flats are low tension strings.


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Post subject: Re: MIA Precision - Nut slots too wide?!
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:35 pm
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I find the variety of strings available to be both a blessing and a curse. Some positives:

1. There is a whole range of sounds available - the thump of flats, the piano-like zing of round-wounds, and some that go against "common wisdom" - Steve Harris's clank that actually comes from flatwounds is one example.

2. The variety of feels, from high-tension flats to super-light gauges. It might seem like all flats are the same, but again there is actually variety Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Flats (TIs) are very flexible and very different from LaBella "Original 1954" flat wounds, which are extremely high-tension. I personally like the GHS Precision Flatwound strings - even in the .045-.105 set they have some flexibility, more than Chromes of the same tension. Within the same brand and version of a string, changes in gauge will probably be easy to predict, but if you go across brands/versions, you may not be able to tell without actually experimenting.

Of course, different people have different preferences and experiences. So the best thing to do in my opinion is experiment. However, strings are expensive! Here's the curse part. Also, you may find that you don't like a string, the way it feels, etc., and then you have to go and invest in another type of string.

In the midst of this is the fact that different tensions may require adjustments - for instance, switching to a lighter gauge of strings will result in less tension on the neck, and you might get back bow and need to loosen the tension on the truss rods, not to mention adjust the bridge height, and of course you will need to check and possibly adjust the intonation. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - it's nice to be able to do your own adjustments. It is definitely a good thing to keep in mind. Don't want to go to a gig or the studio and then realize that the intonation on the higher frets isn't where it needs to be. I've done that myself!

So I think it makes sense to find a string that works for you and stick with it. That means a possible experiment period. Once you have settled on something, you can then have someone cut a new nut to fit those strings. In the meantime you can use the matchbook trick. I've done something similar, something like a business card.

This is already a long post, but I will relate an example: one of my Precision Basses I want strung with flats. When I bought it last year it had Chromes, so a good start - in fact, I wonder if that's why people didn't jump on the bass? Anyway, I could see that they were a lighter gauge, they were a little loose in the nut slots. So I played them for a while, used my calipers to find out the gauge, and they were .040-.100. I wanted strings that fit the nut slots, don't want to mod at all at this point, so got the GHS .045-.105 set, and they fit perfectly. Also found that they feel great! It was my first time to use them, and they had the heft that I like and yet they are also flexible, in that I can comfortably bend them a bit for vibrato. Had them on about a year and no complaints, plus I can just pick up the bass and play it, don't need to wash my hands first like I do with rounds.

Then I found some DR "Legend" flatwounds at Guitar Center. I've always wanted to try these! So I bought them, they weren't too expensive. Not my dilemma. I love the GHS strings - I don't "need" to change them. So do I just leave them on? Or do I experiment with the DRs? At this point I'm not changing them. But I've thought about it!

Markus, now that I reread your post, I think I may have written too much. But I also have more to say! Some people are fine with the strings being skinnier than the nut slots. But personally, once I know what I want, I think it's worth it to get the bass set up properly, including a new nut - and actually, you could have fun deciding on a material for that - but that's another thread! 8)

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Post subject: Re: MIA Precision - Nut slots too wide?!
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:09 am
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Good Morning Sirs,
I am impressed by this forum and its helpful members - many thanks!!! :D

@hieronymous
Appreciated your explaination, you have by far not written too much!

I very much like the sound of flatwounds and I like the idea of using strings which are getting better the more I play them. It is also quite comfortable, just put them on the bass and forget them for a long time.

An experiment period is OK of course as long as it comes to an end before I run out of money (my wife would appreciate this too :mrgreen:). Best case for me is to find a sound-wise acceptable set of flatwounds which will fit to my ears, hands and bass - without modifying anything. I don't know why, but I do not like the idea of giving my beloved bass to someone else in order to let the nut or any other component be replaced or adjusted. I would like to keep it in original condition as long as possible. Similar to what you have written in your answer.

The TIs are now on my Mendel P and they perfectly fit to the nut. I had to setup the neck and the bridge but now its fine. I was a little bit afraid that the TIs will not sound good in conjunction with the relatively modern quarter pounder but there was no reason to be afraid. It really sounds good, not as vintage-like as with the 60s CS PUPs but still great.

I will order a set of GHS 45-105 and see how they fit. Do you see any problems with stringing them through the body?

Regards from the other side of the ocean!


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Post subject: Re: MIA Precision - Nut slots too wide?!
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:26 am
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LoveMeFender wrote:
I don't know why, but I do not like the idea of giving my beloved bass to someone else in order to let the nut or any other component be replaced or adjusted. I would like to keep it in original condition as long as possible. Similar to what you have written in your answer.

The TIs are now on my Mendel P and they perfectly fit to the nut. I had to setup the neck and the bridge but now its fine. I was a little bit afraid that the TIs will not sound good in conjunction with the relatively modern quarter pounder but there was no reason to be afraid. It really sounds good, not as vintage-like as with the 60s CS PUPs but still great.

I will order a set of GHS 45-105 and see how they fit. Do you see any problems with stringing them through the body?

Regards from the other side of the ocean!

As long as you trust your repairman then I don't think it's a bad thing for someone else to work on your instrument. However, it isn't easy to have that kind of relationship.

Glad the TIs work on another of your basses - I bet that sounds great!

As far as the GHS strings, I don't have any experience stringing them through body. However, they are made to fit basses from 34"-36" - in fact, on a regular 34" bass, some of the plain string wraps around the post on the E - haven't had a problem with that. But with string through body, they should fit perfectly.

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