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Post subject: Capacitors
Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:18 pm
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Brother Dave,
Japanese Fender '51/'54 blue flower P bass:
SD Quarter Pounder p/up will be installed.
I want to upgrade caps. I read from one of your posts that I probably can't upgrade pots for cavity space reasons. I plug straight into eden rig, no effects.
Not sure I want too much "edginess" so vintage discs probably not for me.
Don't want too smooth so "paper vitamin stuff" probably not for me.
I'm guessing the "Orange drop poly" with a little edginess might be the thing.
So, what number do I look for? .022, .047 ????? What other numbers/sizes/specs do I look for and want? Your opinions on sound are trusted.
I'm totally ignorant of "stuff!"
What's in there now...a "Chicklet?"
I don't go inside these things...I never built a dog house in my life?
Luckily I have a competent friend who works on my basses for me.
Your considered response will be most appreciated.
Steve


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Post subject: Re: Capacitors
Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 8:48 pm
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Location: Albemarle, NC
The Japanese made first generation single coil basses I've seen have all had the Asian made green poly chicklets.

The Seymour Duncan SCPB3 "Quarter-Pounder" is a good choice. I have one. For the money I don't think you can do better. It is very sensitive thanks to the large pole pieces. It is not overwound, which is why it sounds full range and the output boost again comes from the larger pole pieces, not additional winding.

With that pickup and stock pots I'd go with the 0.047 uF value in a tone capacitor.

The 200 volt versions of any of the paper in oil or film caps (Orange Drops) are what I prefer over the physically larger 400 volt version, but either will work.

Surprisingly there are some slight tonal differences in film caps between identical materials in different voltage capacities. You might think that a 200 volt Sprague Poly Orange Drop will sound exactly the same as a 400 volt version of the same cap in the same value. Not true though. The higher voltage caps have a larger & thicker film surface. Therefore the film has more impact on the tone. The larger the film the bigger influence on tonal character and the more the film's inherent distortion properties become apparent. Try and stick to 200 volt or less capacity in film caps. The lower voltage capacity caps are also SMALLER which is important in this particular case because there isn't a lot of room to play with in the control cavity on these particular instruments.

Since that pickup has so many upper mids I'd probably not use a vintage ceramic disc as the upper mids are what the ceramic disc caps tend to distort the most, or at least what is most obviously edgy to me. The lows tend to sound thicker but the upper mids tend to sound brittle or harsh. The distortion in the lower frequencies is not as apparent as on upper mids. When I put a really bright pickup in, (like the SD SCPB3) I notice the edge from the ceramic disc cap way more. On most modern P-Basses you can't tell as much difference between different cap types because most of them are overwound so much there are no upper mids there.

Other than the real USA vintage Sprague Vitamin Q paper in oil caps, the other stable options cost from about $2.50 to about $5.50 each so you can actually try all 3 for about $10. Your quality tone cap options are: VINTAGE Ceramic Disc and not the modern miniature ones (which you and I both ruled out), Poly 715p Sprague Orange Drop film (the roundish ones), Mylar 225p Sprague Orange Drop film (the boxy ones) and Vitamin-Q Type Paper In Oil (which you've ruled out.)

Note that there are TWO types of Sprague Orange Drops suitable for the tone circuit in a passive bass. The Poly 715p/716p and the Mylar 225p. They cost exactly the same thing usually. Almost ALL online guitar parts dealers only offer the Poly ones and I have no idea why. If it looks like a ROUNDISH tube then it is the Poly, if it is a SQUARISH BOXY SHAPE it is the Mylar. Both are of course orange. If it says just "Orange Drop" on the website then it is likely the poly film 715p/716p ones.

If I had to pick ONE cap in advance for this application, I think a Sprague Mylar 225p Orange Drop (the boxy one) would be a good choice as a starting point. For $2.50 it is cheap, stable and very smooth sounding with less noticeable edge than a Poly Orange Drop or that Asian poly chicklet that is in there now. By the way that chicklet probably sounds edgier than the Orange Drop poly would. There is only a very very slight edge with the Mylar 225P Sprague Orange Drop and it is really a lot of smooth for $2.50. If you want a little more edge then the Poly 715p/716p Orange Drop would be worth a try, but I think between the two Orange Drops that I'd start out with the Mylar one myself with that pickup since it is so bright. AXEGRINDERZ DOT COM is a good source for all types of caps, including the hard to get Sprague MYLAR Orange Drop 225p's.

If you put in the Sprague 225p Mylar brand film cap and wish it was smoother then from there about the only smoother cap type I know about that is stable enough for guitar use is a paper in oil Vitamin-Q type. Since you've ruled them out too I just deleted about 3 paragraphs I wrote about them before remembering you weren't going there.

You can rout the control cavity some and get standard CTS pots to fit. I've done it with a Dremel tool by hand but I don't recommend it and probably would not do it again. I wouldn't have done it that time but the tone pot had developed an issue that needed fixed immediately and I couldn't wait for new mini-pots to arrive. Since then I try to keep some mini-pots stashed. So you can put in standard pots, but you have to do some woodworking first and I do NOT encourage you to go there. You also have to drill larger holes for the pot shafts in the control plate because even the shaft on them is "mini." It is just a huge hassle all around. There is no tonal benefit from swapping the pots just for the sake of swapping them as tonally 250K is 250K...so if they ain't broke, don't fix 'em.


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Post subject: Re: Capacitors
Posted: Sat May 04, 2013 4:37 pm
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Wow! Thanks, I knew you'd come through. Pickup change, see how "chicklet" sounds, and go to "boxy Orange drop" if needed is my plan.
I'll keep tapping this sight for needed info.
Thanks, Sen Sei.


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