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Post subject: The Single Most Important Thing In Getting That Sound ?
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:37 am
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A guy (bass player) came up to me after our set yesterday and asked me that question. The first thing I said without thinking too much was "strings". If I had taken a few moments to think about it I probably would have told him something else at first.

Once I thought about it .... I realized there may be alot more to it.


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Post subject: Re: The Single Most Important Thing In Getting That Sound ?
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:06 am
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I've got an extra light set of strings on my bass that were new when I bought it. Now they're so dull and lifeless and almost sound kinda nylon. I guess I like old strings.

Much of "that sound" comes from your own enthusiasm. Maybe the rest is strength. I can tell if it's Jaco(for instance) no matter what bass he's playing. You can hear the power in his picking fingers.


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Post subject: Re: The Single Most Important Thing In Getting That Sound ?
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:24 am
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I can't narrow it down. There are two tones I've chased in my life and I am happy to say that I have found both of them and know how to get them. However, I can't tell you one thing that is more important then the other factors. pick up/configuration, wood, string, control circuit, it all goes in on top of a thousand other factors. I guess I just know what not to use to get them. :?

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Post subject: Re: The Single Most Important Thing In Getting That Sound ?
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:18 am
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Amplifier. (assuming we're talking about playing with no F/X)

You can have all the special guitars, special strings, special pickups, special whatever, that you like but it doesn't get to your ears until it comes out of the amp. The amp is what makes the actual sound you hear and it will affect your sound more than any other single thing.

I liked what Dalembic wrote about Jaco. It's true that each player has his own sound but going down that road won't gain us anything in a discussion like this. You are always you so you are not a variable in the equation. You are a constant. You and your hands and your style of touch are not things you can just go to the store and swap out for something else. If we're asking the question, "what can you change to get closer to that tone?" then you and your hands have no part in this discussion because you can't change you. At least not without a ton of investment in time and effort while you unlearn what you now know and relearn a new way to play.

The simple answer is amplifier. Besides your hands the amp is the largest factor in your sound.

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Post subject: Re: The Single Most Important Thing In Getting That Sound ?
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:12 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Amplifier. (assuming we're talking about playing with no F/X)

You can have all the special guitars, special strings, special pickups, special whatever, that you like but it doesn't get to your ears until it comes out of the amp. The amp is what makes the actual sound you hear and it will affect your sound more than any other single thing.

I liked what Dalembic wrote about Jaco. It's true that each player has his own sound but going down that road won't gain us anything in a discussion like this. You are always you so you are not a variable in the equation. You are a constant. You and your hands and your style of touch are not things you can just go to the store and swap out for something else. If we're asking the question, "what can you change to get closer to that tone?" then you and your hands have no part in this discussion because you can't change you. At least not without a ton of investment in time and effort while you unlearn what you now know and relearn a new way to play.

The simple answer is amplifier. Besides your hands the amp is the largest factor in your sound.


I don't know about the amp comment. I can run a T-bird through my rig and it doesn't sound like anything I'd want to play. Same for a J bass, though obviously the J would sound better. I eq my rig pretty straight forward. (Noon, Noon, and 10:30) No effects.

The "hands" quote is true, though. Playing bass, or any instrument is a way of communicating. We all have our own way of speaking. Wether with our tongues or our fingers. It's the subtle and not so subtle nuances in the way we each play that makes us as a bassist. However, is that what the OP is asking?

Going back to the T-bird. It would still sound like me. Anyone who knows my playing might know it's me. They'd just wonder why I was playing such an awful sounding instrument. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: The Single Most Important Thing In Getting That Sound ?
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:09 pm
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I was playing a benefit gig . The amp was not mine. It was the smallest Fender bass amp I'd ever seen. It was about 5 inches deep- a foot wide and a foot tall. I couldn't hear it and the "soundman" came over and turned it down. It was miked with a sm57 but it must have sounded okay in the audience.

There are many factors as to how one gets the sound they get. A very important one is the hands . I've noticed that before with a couple bass players I've watched at gigs.


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Post subject: Re: The Single Most Important Thing In Getting That Sound ?
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:17 pm
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stroker vance wrote:
A guy (bass player) came up to me after our set yesterday and asked me that question. The first thing I said without thinking too much was "strings". If I had taken a few moments to think about it I probably would have told him something else at first.

Once I thought about it .... I realized there may be alot more to it.


It's like baking a cake. No one ingredient is the single most important. Leave out any ingredient no matter how small the size and it won't come out right.

It starts with your fingers or pick. Pick players sound more uniform, but there are tonal differences even among pickers. Just follow the sound from there and the strings, pickup, wood, bridge, nut, passive tone cap or active tone circuit, cable, preamp, compression, eq, amp power and color, speaker cab choice and placement are all important. Each detail makes a difference to me but some people can't actually hear any difference! Also, other players and the sound mix itself plays into the equation.

You also can have the best tone of your career, but if a guitar is too loud or the sound guy loves keyboards you are pretty much screwed no matter what you do. Some sound techs do not know how to make a cake or otherwise have some agenda. Recently Johnny Depp's project band played on "THE LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN." This was a few weeks ago. Johnny can actually play slide electric guitar, but unfortunately the sound was mixed so that his slide guitar was so loud you couldn't hear anything else. Even the vocals were buried under his Stratocaster. There were a bunch of other musicians playing and a vocalist too but they could have stayed home and just let Johnny play his Strat solo because whenever he played you just could not hear anything else. His guitar work was fine but the mix was one of the worst ever on Letterman. Dave Grohl came on a week or two later with his SOUND CITY PLAYERS from the current film project (an excellent film in very limited release) with Stevie Nicks singing and it was a good solid well baked cake.


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Post subject: Re: The Single Most Important Thing In Getting That Sound ?
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:45 pm
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Not to get off the subject BUT to get off the subject- I've always had a bone to pick with soundmen. 99% of the ones I've been around are not soundmen. Sure they might know how to trouble shoot their rigs and they even may know what HRZ to adjust things at but- like I said the ones I've been around just went out and bought some sound equipment and started doing it. You can't really train someone to have an "ear". I know I sound like a Nazi on that but I think bass players are the best soundmen. Okay enough rash generalizations. Sorry. :D


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Post subject: Re: The Single Most Important Thing In Getting That Sound ?
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:16 pm
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stroker vance wrote:
Not to get off the subject BUT to get off the subject- I've always had a bone to pick with soundmen. 99% of the ones I've been around are not soundmen. Sure they might know how to trouble shoot their rigs and they even may know what HRZ to adjust things at but- like I said the ones I've been around just went out and bought some sound equipment and started doing it. You can't really train someone to have an "ear". I know I sound like a Nazi on that but I think bass players are the best soundmen. Okay enough rash generalizations. Sorry. :D


No it is a VERY valid point and part of what I was saying. I think some of them are also musicians, perhaps former players or at least closet players. These techs have an agenda to either make their favored instrument sound great at the expense of everything else. Others seem to try to sabotage that one instrument in the mix so they can rationalize that they would be better in the slot. Try to make a point of getting in front of the mains at sound check and see what the mix is like. Th1is is especially important when someone not used to your band is doing the mix. I went to one show once where about 15 different acts played and I never once heard a bass.


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Post subject: Re: The Single Most Important Thing In Getting That Sound ?
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:27 pm
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stroker vance wrote:
You can't really train someone to have an "ear". I know I sound like a Nazi on that but I think bass players are the best soundmen. Okay enough rash generalizations. Sorry. :D

Actually there are courses on sound. A guitar player that I used to be in a band with took a small number of them while he was studying broadcasting. I'm sure there must be other programs geared more to live sound reinforcement. He told me that one of the topics they touched on was how to hear sound and mix effectively. He was pretty good with the mixing board.

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Post subject: Re: The Single Most Important Thing In Getting That Sound ?
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:24 pm
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Not all but about half of the sound guys we used for the Rock band didn't really have any feelings about bass guitar NOR do most guitarists, singers,drummers and non musicians. They look at bass as "so what?" or "it's too loud". The Country bands I'm in- the musicians love a nice rich deep sound. They never say it's too loud. They seem to appreciate the bass alot more than the messed up brain Rockers. :lol: I love it !!! HA!!!.

But the two guys who are the best soundmen in town really made my Rock bass sound great. It was like extasy feeling it and hearing it. Gave me chills and tons of energy and swet !!! NICE!!!!


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Post subject: Re: The Single Most Important Thing In Getting That Sound ?
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:05 am
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Seems to me that the volume my band plays at has as much to do with finding the sound I like as any other factor. That, combined with the acoustics of the room we're playing, make a difference in whether or not I like my sound that night.

I could be wrong here, but I believe that if any given player (in an un-miked situation) can hear themselves as well as they'd like to, and with the tone they want, then they're probably playing too loud. I usually play just below this level and think that if I cold get the rest of the band to think this way that we could play any room at the right volume.

Sound men: It really bugs me that most of them spend so much time setting the other instruments during a sound check, and when it's my turn I get about three measures into it and the guy says "Ok!". Even the better ones don't ask if I need anything. I have to ask for it if I want something changed. Grrrr! :x

Yes, I think bass players make the best sound men too. And the best recording engineers.


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Post subject: Re: The Single Most Important Thing In Getting That Sound ?
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:52 am
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63p-bass wrote:
Seems to me that the volume my band plays at has as much to do with finding the sound I like as any other factor. That, combined with the acoustics of the room we're playing, make a difference in whether or not I like my sound that night.

I could be wrong here, but I believe that if any given player (in an un-miked situation) can hear themselves as well as they'd like to, and with the tone they want, then they're probably playing too loud. I usually play just below this level and think that if I cold get the rest of the band to think this way that we could play any room at the right volume.

Sound men: It really bugs me that most of them spend so much time setting the other instruments during a sound check, and when it's my turn I get about three measures into it and the guy says "Ok!". Even the better ones don't ask if I need anything. I have to ask for it if I want something changed. Grrrr! :x

Yes, I think bass players make the best sound men too. And the best recording engineers.


yeah I think the average sound Joe does the same bass check as you got. I'd play "A" for about 15 seconds and that was it. The good guys get the bass sound pretty fast but when THEY get it --it just shakes the building. The rest of the bands volume fits with that bass rumble-- I'm talking about Hard Rock loud stuff. I think it sucks to play stuff like Whitesnake and Led Zep and Van Halen at wedding levels.

I had alot of problems making the guys in the Rock band understand that the bass is going to sound loud on stage when playing the type music we did. The drums always thumped louder than my bass anyway but they complained to me about the bass. I even told the soundman (the good one) that I thought it was loud-- he told me "don't touch it-- it sounds great out front". So what do you do about guitards that want to be the loudest thing on Earth? I think they are deaf to an extent and the bass tones are all their hearing can handle. I don't see many bass player pointing their cabinet up at their ears. Do you? NO!!! It's the guit heads who want to ruin their ears if they"re not already. HA!!

Really, I can deal with it no problem. Why? Because bass players rule--- but few know it.....shame.


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Post subject: Re: The Single Most Important Thing In Getting That Sound ?
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:34 am
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stroker vance wrote:
63p-bass wrote:
Seems to me that the volume my band plays at has as much to do with finding the sound I like as any other factor. That, combined with the acoustics of the room we're playing, make a difference in whether or not I like my sound that night.

I could be wrong here, but I believe that if any given player (in an un-miked situation) can hear themselves as well as they'd like to, and with the tone they want, then they're probably playing too loud. I usually play just below this level and think that if I cold get the rest of the band to think this way that we could play any room at the right volume.

Sound men: It really bugs me that most of them spend so much time setting the other instruments during a sound check, and when it's my turn I get about three measures into it and the guy says "Ok!". Even the better ones don't ask if I need anything. I have to ask for it if I want something changed. Grrrr! :x

Yes, I think bass players make the best sound men too. And the best recording engineers.


yeah I think the average sound Joe does the same bass check as you got. I'd play "A" for about 15 seconds and that was it. The good guys get the bass sound pretty fast but when THEY get it --it just shakes the building. The rest of the bands volume fits with that bass rumble-- I'm talking about Hard Rock loud stuff. I think it sucks to play stuff like Whitesnake and Led Zep and Van Halen at wedding levels.

I had alot of problems making the guys in the Rock band understand that the bass is going to sound loud on stage when playing the type music we did. The drums always thumped louder than my bass anyway but they complained to me about the bass. I even told the soundman (the good one) that I thought it was loud-- he told me "don't touch it-- it sounds great out front". So what do you do about guitards that want to be the loudest thing on Earth? I think they are deaf to an extent and the bass tones are all their hearing can handle. I don't see many bass player pointing their cabinet up at their ears. Do you? NO!!! It's the guit heads who want to ruin their ears if they"re not already. HA!!

Really, I can deal with it no problem. Why? Because bass players rule--- but few know it.....shame.


I'm in a blues band and we can get a bit loud, but we focus on dynamics too, so we're not overly loud most of the time. We play a lot and some rooms are more difficult than others, so occasionally the guitars or drums get too loud in a small or boomy room. Many times all it takes is the right placement of your amp to correct this problem. I stack my cabs vertically to get them up to my ear and that helps me hear myself without getting too loud for the room (hopefully).

I don't understand the logic of some small clubs wanting concert level volume when their occupancy is less than 100. They have a house PA and that is where you normally find the 'hobbyist' sound man. "Just crank it up man, it'll sound great" :roll:

Maybe I'm too old or just being anal, but I hate playing too loud for the venue. It's not professional!

Getting back on to your original topic though, I agree with the posts above that everything; bass, strings, amp, and hands all play a part in finding the tone you want. The hard part is putting it all together.


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Post subject: Re: The Single Most Important Thing In Getting That Sound ?
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:35 pm
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63p-bass wrote:

Maybe I'm too old or just being anal, but I hate playing too loud for the venue. It's not professional!

Any band I've ever been in we always play at a level that fills the room from front to back but doesn't make people's ears bleed. I have something I always step up to the mic and say whenever we get that small percentage of people who say we're too loud.

"If we're too loud then you're too old."

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