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Post subject: Question #1
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:09 am
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Hi, new to the forum, thanks for the welcome, here's my first question.....

My new PB V offers the option of anchoring the strings either on the bridge or through the body.

On the bottom B & E strings, the bridge option means that the string winding lies on the saddle, (because these saddles are closer to the anchor point, as a consequence of setting intonation), not good for sound or intonation I would think.

Using the through body option means that the string break angle on these two strings is almost 90%, which I would figure may give rise to string breaks, again, not good !!

I have heard a little about "tapered" strings, but I know little about them or how they would effect this issue!

How do you P bass experts deal with it, any advice on the correct way to deal with this or ideas on the ideal solution?

Cheers...........Brian


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Post subject: Re: Question #1
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:32 pm
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[quote="theonemanband"]Hi, new to the forum, thanks for the welcome, here's my first question.....

My new PB V offers the option of anchoring the strings either on the bridge or through the body.

On the bottom B & E strings, the bridge option means that the string winding lies on the saddle, (because these saddles are closer to the anchor point, as a consequence of setting intonation), not good for sound or intonation I would think.

Using the through body option means that the string break angle on these two strings is almost 90%, which I would figure may give rise to string breaks, again, not good !!

I have heard a little about "tapered" strings, but I know little about them or how they would effect this issue!




I trim just a tad of the winding (thread) with an exacto so it's metal sitting on the saddle-

The 90% angle over the saddle will not make the strings break. In fact it's a good thing- look at Teles and Strats.

Tapered means you just adjust the saddles to compensate- I think you can only use tapered on the bridge and not thru the body.

Thru the body takes strings long enough for the windings(thread) to not be on the playing side of the nut(E and A).

I always go thru the body as my first choice. I buy extra long rotos so I can do it. I like the idea of the 90% thing and I've never broken a string doing it (long time). Thru the bridge is not bad- it's a matter of preference to most.


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Post subject: Re: Question #1
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:30 pm
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stroker vance wrote:
.......Tapered means you just adjust the saddles to compensate- I think you can only use tapered on the bridge and not thru the body........

Just thought I would mention that my FCS Jazz came with taperwounds mounted through the body. I have continued to use them this way for over a year without any problems.

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2012 American Standard Precision V - Candy Cola Red
2012 Squier Vintage Modified Jazz V - Surf Green
2011 FCS Custom Classic Special Jazz Bass V - Violin Burst
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Post subject: Re: Question #1
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:15 pm
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The point of taperwound strings is to have the core wire rest on the saddles instead of the outer wrap, much like piano string cores do. Taperwound strings will have more sustain and brightness than a non-taperwound set of the identical materials. The saddle has to be raised to compensate for the thinner string diameter at the saddle though.

So far as I know only the distance between the bridge saddles and nut combined with relief in the neck impact intonation. Whether you string bridge-through or body-through the actual intonation settings with the same set of strings should be identical. However I do think that body-through stringing impacts tension a bit as body-through setups do seem to have slightly higher tension. Very slight.

Only metal should contact the bridge saddles and Stoker's advice about removing the silk outer wrap is good advice. You should get all of it off not only at but also superior to all four of the actual bridge saddle contact points.


Last edited by brotherdave on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Question #1
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:49 pm
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Hi, thanks for the advice.

I've just fitted a set of D'Addario Chrome (1st time I've tried flat wound) strings......wow, love the sound.
However, I've had to fit 4th & 5th through the body to avoid the silk wrap passing over the bridge saddles, 1 2 & 3 anchor nicely in the bridge. I think I'm happy to live with that!

Cheers.....Brian


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Post subject: Re: Question #1
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:23 pm
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Fender Super Bass 82505M with the taper wound B & E string are worth mentioning, they're the strings that come stock on American Standard & American Deluxe Basses.


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Post subject: Re: Question #1
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:53 pm
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I will defer to Brother Dave, but somewhere along the line I picked up that, with respect to flatwounds, it is better if they are not through body. I have just started using flats on my Ps so I have no clue personally...just seems I heard that someplace on this forum.

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Post subject: Re: Question #1
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:05 pm
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brotherdave wrote:
The point of tapewound strings is to have the core wire rest on the saddles instead of the outer wrap, much like piano string cores do. Taperwound strings will have more sustain and brightness than a non-taperwound set of the identical materials.


I'm sorry, I'm a little confused from your description above :?

I thought tapewound were just another variation of flatwound, still wound fully to the ball end; on the other hand, I thought it was taperwound that had the winding cut back in order for the core wire to sit on the bridge saddle.


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Post subject: Re: Question #1
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:04 am
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theonemanband wrote:
brotherdave wrote:
The point of tapewound strings is to have the core wire rest on the saddles instead of the outer wrap, much like piano string cores do. Taperwound strings will have more sustain and brightness than a non-taperwound set of the identical materials.


I'm sorry, I'm a little confused from your description above :?

I thought tapewound were just another variation of flatwound, still wound fully to the ball end; on the other hand, I thought it was taperwound that had the winding cut back in order for the core wire to sit on the bridge saddle.


Yes that is a typo. MEANT TAPERWOUND. Not TAPEWOUND. You mentioned taperwound and the "R" didn't take when I typed it so it came out TAPEWOUND instead. I went back and put the "R" in.

I haven't used nylon wrapped strings in like 20 years. Anyway thanks for finding the typo.


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Post subject: Re: Question #1
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:07 am
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affprod wrote:
I will defer to Brother Dave, but somewhere along the line I picked up that, with respect to flatwounds, it is better if they are not through body. I have just started using flats on my Ps so I have no clue personally...just seems I heard that someplace on this forum.


Body through stringing flatwounds is something I learned to avoid whenever I can. This was not always possible, such as on the first generation P-Basses. They came with flatwounds and were body-through strung only! In the early and mid 60's all you could get were flatwounds and your choices were very limited on brands since there was no internet dealers. You simply had to buy what the music store had and usually that was a higher tension flatwound set than the old original Fenders came with.

The early stock flatwounds that Fender also sold for a long time labeled FENDER brand were lower tension than some flats that came out later with much higher tension which everyone thought sounded better. The V.C. Squier made FENDER strings were not available after 1965.

The old lower tension flats Fender used and also sold as FENDER brand from about 1952 through 1965 were made by the V.C. Squier Company in Battlecreek, Michigan under contract for Fender. They were very low tension for a flatwound and worked fine for body-through use.

With higher tension flatwounds the 90 degree bend of a body-through setup causes the outerwrap to crack open which exposes the core and can also actually cause the bent edge of the outer wrap to abrade the core. The edge of this outer wrap layer is pretty sharp. The higher the tension the more likely the string will fail as the outer wrap abrades the core with every vibration of the string.

By the time Fender switched to high tension Labella 760M's as their stock string in the early 60's they had eliminated body through stringing on basses completely and all basses were top loaded (bridge-through.) V.C. Squier stopped making their low tension flatwound bass strings about 1965. Today's Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Flats are somewhat similar to them.

Actually Labella 760M's packs today each have a sticker saying "NOT FOR BODY-THROUGH STRINGING." Labella doesn't put that sticker on any other 760 sets, just the 760M's. This sticker was added since I used them in the late 60's through early 70's. I used to body-through string the 760M's on first generation P-Basses and a lot of them broke. Usually the A or D string. I eventually went to rounds exclusively for body through stringing and haven't had any more broken strings. My three instruments with flats are all top loaded (bridge-through) only.

So while other flats might be perfectly OK to body-through string because they are lower tension, I learned my lesson and I'm not going to push my luck and do experiments to find out which sets do and which sets don't like body-through setups. I'm positive the 760M's have trouble with body-through setups and so is Labella. A set of 760M's should last a couple of years but I was having to buy at least 2 sets a month for a while. That got tiresome and expensive.

Labella 760M's are the highest tension strings I've ever used. Other flats might be perfectly fine body-through but to play it safe I now only use rounds body-through.


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Post subject: Re: Question #1
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:35 am
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Hi,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/69592184@N ... hotostream

Am I right in thinking then, that the string in the attached image (link above) IS NOT a taperwound string?
This is the .130tw 5th. (the.110tw 4th is the same) from Fender 82505M set purchased recently from a supplier here in the UK.
I was expecting (as you said) there to be no winding for the first +/- 2" but as you can see, these are fully wound to the ball end.
Is this mis-packaging on Fenders part or is this Fenders take on a "taperwound" string?

My brain is fuddled :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Question #1
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:25 pm
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I used to use Fender 8250 taperwounds on my 4-string P Bass but I found them to be very
inconsistent. I've heard reports of Fender changing sources for this string and, apparently, they
haven't worked the kinks out.

I installed a Fender 8250 (roundcore taperwound) .110 E string and I was certain
that the fat part of the string used to sit on the bridge saddle. On this one, the thin end was
long enough that the thin part of the string sits on the saddle.

So I bought a new set. Look at the difference! These are both Fender 8250M .110tw strings.

And notice how they sit differently on the saddle.
Also, the newer strings don't have the gray silk on the end.
I'm convinced that there were/are at least three different
types of the Fender 8250M strings. These are types 2 and 3.
I want the old type 1's back.

Image

Image

Image

By the way, this was the last time I tried going though-body with the E string. I no longer do that.
It puts too much angle on the string. I'm convinced that isn't good for them.


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Post subject: Re: Question #1
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:53 am
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Blimey, now I'm really confused!! :lol:

From what I can make out then, the "taper wound" strings I was supplied with are not in fact taper wound at all??

I'll return these in due course; meanwhile. can anyone recommend a good FLAT/TAPER WOUND string, available in the UK.

Cheers........Brian.


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Post subject: Re: Question #1
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:58 pm
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theonemanband wrote:
Hi,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/69592184@N ... hotostream

Am I right in thinking then, that the string in the attached image (link above) IS NOT a taperwound string?
This is the .130tw 5th. (the.110tw 4th is the same) from Fender 82505M set purchased recently from a supplier here in the UK.
I was expecting (as you said) there to be no winding for the first +/- 2" but as you can see, these are fully wound to the ball end.
Is this mis-packaging on Fenders part or is this Fenders take on a "taperwound" string?

My brain is fuddled :lol:


That is not a taper wound string.

This is taper wound bass set:

Image


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