It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:26 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Re: Made in Mexico Precisions
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:32 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:19 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
Thanks for the link PaducahLuke,.... I have to further add a comment regarding Strokers post......I was also gun shy regarding MIM basses until I played a few Road Worn basses & the Roger Waters P Bass,.....& what sold me on MIM basses was my Reggie Hamilton Jazz Bass with P/J setup:

Body: Alder
Neck: Maple with Rosewood Fretboard & vintage frets
American Standard P Bass split coil pickup
Custom Noiseless Jazz pickup
Vintage Fender Bridge
Fender Stamped tuners
Hipshot D-tuner
Active/passive electronics

There's alot of American parts on this unit.....not sure if the bridge, pots & stamped tuners are Mexican or American parts sent to Mexico.....


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Made in Mexico Precisions
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:45 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:42 am
Posts: 42
Can anyone reply to a question of mine that I posted a few months ago but didn't get feedback?
Mineral stains are naturally formed in wood as it's growing. These stains are thin, straight black streaks that basically run with the grain, but many times these streaks will run across the grain.
Do wood connoisseurs appreciate these streaks or find them unattractive?
How do guitarists feel?
Would they affect sound (I wouldn't think so)?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Made in Mexico Precisions
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:24 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:54 am
Posts: 438
Location: Alabama, Michigan, Florida, Wisconsin, Mississippi and Tennessee seasonally
There are many ways to look at that - literally - because there are as many differing tastes in the look of a bass guitar as there are bassists. Since the mineral stains are semi liquid while the tree is still standing, the stain itself is flexible within the grain structire and will not affect resonance. That being said, I doubt seriously if large guitar manufacturers use production line body blanks, going through the inspection process, that have a significant amount of visual disruption - unless it is specifically ordered through the custom shop for 'character'.

That might be a good question for Mike E. over in his chat area to see what their policy is at Fender regarding non-standard grain or natural staining. I'd be interested in his feedback.

Just an FYI - about a month ago I purchased an Ibanez SR600WNF (walnut natural finish) and there are absolutely no grain issues in the body anywhere in this fairly high end Ibanez. I looked at a few in that series at the store and none of them had any abnormal structures within the grain pattern. I also tested an American made 535 MTD bass about a year ago and it had some of the strangest patterning that I have ever seen on a hand crafted bass. The stage lighting bounced off those disruptions through the top coat of finish and created an interesting light show of it's own in the first 4 or 5 rows of the audience... ergo, a 'distraction'... at least for me.

_________________
PaducahLuke

Fender Power Jazz Bass Special
Fender Standard Jazz Bass
Fender Standard Precision Bass
Schecter Diamond Series Stiletto Elite 5
Ibanez SR600
Ibanez GSR200
Bassman 250-210
Peavy MAX115
Peavy MAX115 (II)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Made in Mexico Precisions
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:00 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Albemarle, NC
Regarding the basswood being considered second rate, it is softer so you have to keep a closer check on tightness of screws. Otherwise I actually like basswood tone. It is lighter weight also. Light weight can be a blessing and a curse and lead to a neck dive/poor balance issue. Still I like the tone though with a maple neck and rosewood board.

I agree that MIM finishing has really taken giant steps over the past decade. It has gotten harder to tell the difference between USA and MIM just by looking at the finish.

MIM stock pickups use less costly ceramic magnets as a rule instead of Alnico. I prefer Alnico personally. However ceramic magnet pickups are perfectly viable. I think a lot of it is what you get used to. I often see people playing stock MIM P-Basses and enjoy their sound very much! I notice the difference more when playing than when listening to someone else play. Good play makes anything sound better!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Made in Mexico Precisions
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:08 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Albemarle, NC
Yeah that is a good link! I usually say that I like basswood but lots of people don't. I guess because it isn't a muddy sounding wood and to me it seems pretty resonant because I can actually feel it vibrating sometimes. I think the wood selection of the body doesn't matter as much as other factors. I like basswood fine. I also like swamp ash.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Made in Mexico Precisions
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:17 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 2293
Location: Adirondacks
Brother Dave,
i don't mean to sharp shoot you, but I have a 92 MIM P-bass which is made of Alder and even has Schaller tuners on it. The only mods I have ever done were to put a Bad $@! II bridge and Fender Silver lace Sensor Pups on it back in 93. It is a fantastic bass. I also have 2 2011 MIM Jazz basses both also made of Alder. Could you direct me to where your source specified basswood. I am like you and don't mined it at all. Thanks for all the great reference materials you give for all of us!
Cheers,
ABS :D


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Made in Mexico Precisions
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:01 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Albemarle, NC
airbornestrat wrote:
Brother Dave,
i don't mean to sharp shoot you, but I have a 92 MIM P-bass which is made of Alder and even has Schaller tuners on it. The only mods I have ever done were to put a Bad $@! II bridge and Fender Silver lace Sensor Pups on it back in 93. It is a fantastic bass. I also have 2 2011 MIM Jazz basses both also made of Alder. Could you direct me to where your source specified basswood. I am like you and don't mined it at all. Thanks for all the great reference materials you give for all of us!
Cheers,
ABS :D


The 92 would be solid alder. That was during the time they were using the same specification blanks as the USA instruments which were cut and fretted in Corona then shipped to Mexico for finishing and assembly. You can tell this especially on some semi-transparent finishes where you can actually see the joints in the body. The finishing is what improved most post fire. I also liked the cosmetic changes after that. I was never a fan of the Strat type knobs and expanded pickguards on the Jazzes. While a continuation of the final Fullerton Standard cosmetics I didn't even like it on the late Fullertons.

The Schaller tuners are perhaps LICENSED by Schaller tuners made in Asia for Fender. Also starting in 93 there were multiple levels of MIM instruments that all pretty much looked like today's Standards and it was hard to tell them apart except by the headstock decals. The additional runs were the Traditional Series which had the solid black FENDER headstock logos that appeared to be silk-screened on, and the Squier Series Fenders which had the same black logo but with a tiny Squier Series decal similar to today's Deluxe Series decals. The Standards had the gold Fender logo. There was a price difference between each of the levels and quality differences also.

At some point they started ordering laminate blanks for MIM production and I don't know exactly when that was but it happened while Corona was still cutting necks and bodies for MIM production. These laminated blanks were not rectangular but had a small protrusion where the upper horn would be cut and they were smaller overall so there was less waste. After laminate blanks started being used you no longer saw any joint seams in semi-transparent finishes and the tops and backs actually look like a one-piece body. Of course there is no such thing as a one piece MIM body even though it looks like a one piece body. Lamination makes for a prettier finish but less resonance on paper because for all practical purposes a 3 piece body becomes a 5 piece body and a 4 piece body becomes a 6 piece body and the generally accepted rule is that the more pieces of individual wood in the body the less resonance it has. HOWEVER I've found some exceptionally resonant modern laminate MIM bodies. The same can be said for solid alder bodies also but the ratio of duds to gems is smaller in the non-laminate solid wood bodies.

About 3 years ago they stopped specifying the body woods used in MIM Standards. Where it used to say "body-alder" it said nothing about body wood at all. This doesn't mean they flipped a switch and immediately started using all basswood in Standards. They would continue to use up stocks of alder blanks and replace them in the drying process. By not specifying the wood they can replace them with whatever is less costly at the time of the order be it alder, basswood, poplar, etc. Blank stock can sit around for quite some time before it actually goes into production. The longer it sits the better. The basswood bodies are out there and maybe they are laminated with alder for all I know. Just like any other wood there are varying grades of basswood, some of which is streaked with greenish grains. FSR, Deluxe, Artist, Classic, Roadworn and other series often still specify the body wood. The P-Bass Special specs alder too I think. They are just giving themselves freedom to use the whatever is cheaper in the market when buying wood for Standards or using what they have the most of at the time. They all won't be basswood. Alder is not a particularly expensive wood and in fact is quite cheap compared to some other tonewoods. Alder is also not my favorite body wood, that would be swamp ash. Second choice for tone is basswood but it is not as durable as swamp ash or alder.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Made in Mexico Precisions
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:24 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 2293
Location: Adirondacks
brother Dave,
As always you are a gentleman and a wealth of knowledge!! Thanks much mate!!
Cheers,
ABS :D


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Made in Mexico Precisions
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:19 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:58 pm
Posts: 1051
Location: SW Florida
I'd like to back up a couple posts to Paducah's question about staining. Staining basswood has absolutely made basses more valuable. Back from 66-73 when Fender manufactured the hollow body Coronado and Coronado II Bass they experimented with some thing called a Wildwood finish. Colored dyes were injected into basswood and resulted, in my opinion, in some of the most beautiful basses ever made, yet probably my least favorite to play. Every one looked different, from just a few light stripes, to almost solid deep color. The Wildwood Coronado II basses are valued around $1300-$1600 right now, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It is not unusual to see these Wildwood finishes sell for much, much more. I handed one over, on the spot, a few years ago when a guy offered me $4000. I think that one was a 68??

I don't think it has been done on any other Fender models, but take a look online at how beautiful some of these turned out....I would love to see that finish being used today on a J or P.

Brother Dave, do you know if Fender ever tried that again or considered it as an option?

_________________
Collector of vintage Fender 4 string basses.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Made in Mexico Precisions
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:22 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:19 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
Thanks Dave very informative... :)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Made in Mexico Precisions
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:26 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:14 pm
Posts: 1
This adds to Brother Dave's Fender thread of Jan. 2013...

Generally, when an instrument is intended for export, rules of manufacturing, which all instrument companies adhere to, requires the placement of Country of Origin sticker, decal or impression, somewhere on the instrument.

With respect to certain post-fire 1994 Fender instruments with "MN" starting the serial number sequence, but which do not also indicate "Made In Mexico" on the headstock, it is self-evident that these instruments could not have been made in Mexico. Rules of Country of Origin, which plant supervisors must follow, would preclude "MIM" on the instrument because it was not made in Mexico.

So, logically, these instruments were made in Corona, and since they lack any Country of Origin indicator on them, one can also deduce that they were not intended for export. Thus, the default Country of Origin would be American made, and furthermore, for sale in the United States only.

I found mine at a San Diego store, a beautiful 40th Anniversary 1994 sunburst Strat, MN4138092, with no Country of Origin on it. It's alder wood, and except for the pots and ceramic "MIM" pickups, it's clearly an American Fender build.

Therefore, I'm resigned to the fact that it's an Amerimex, a hybrid, but a damn good one that probably won't benefit from improving value over the years because of the "MN" serial, which denigrates the evidence that it was probably cut, painted and assembled in the United States.

"On February 11, 1994 the Fender manufacturing plant based in Ensenada, Mexico burned down. Fender President Bill Shultz decided to temporarily move production from the Mexico plant to the U.S. plant. These Fender guitars are fairly rare and can be identified by the unique serial number."

For sure, these historical circumstances make certain 1994 Fenders rare, but only time will tell. To this day, company representatives refuse to reveal the secret of these so-called instruments with the "...unique serial number," withholding from proud owners the truth about this special inventory of Fender guitars.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Made in Mexico Precisions
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:18 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:08 pm
Posts: 474
Great post.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Made in Mexico Precisions
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:55 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Albemarle, NC
cocomeza wrote:
"On February 11, 1994 the Fender manufacturing plant based in Ensenada, Mexico burned down. Fender President Bill Shultz decided to temporarily move production from the Mexico plant to the U.S. plant. These Fender guitars are fairly rare and can be identified by the unique serial number."



What is the source of that quote please? Sounds like something you'd find on Wikipedia.

If Standards were made in the USA in 1994, and let's say for the sake of argument that they were for 2 to 3 months, I would be astounded if they did not say "Made in USA" and here are three reasons why.

1. In late 1989 & early 1990 for only two months Squier production for distribution in the USA was temporarily moved from Japan to Corona before moving to Ensenada. These USA made Squiers are all labeled "MADE IN USA." Yet Fender Standards made in the USA for 3 months were not marked with a country of origin? It doesn't make sense.

2. All Fenders or Squiers made in the USA are marked "MADE IN THE USA" ever since international production on the brands began. Even ones painted in Mexico (Highway Ones) are marked "MADE IN USA."

3. It would serve no purpose to make the instruments non-exportable. To go anywhere but the USA they'd have to be marked with origin by law. So just the ones to be sold in the USA were not marked? OK then. BUT, what about the ones going to Canada, they would have to be marked right? Why have these exported USA made Standards not shown up? EVER? I've never ran across one in the secondary market and you'd think they'd be highly touted as rarities. There were less than a few hundred Duck Dunn P-Basses made in Japan one month, and I've seen 3 of them in person and dozens more for sale online. Surely in 3 months they could have made hundreds of Standards at Corona if they made one. Why have none of the exported USA made Standards shown up in the secondary market marked "Made In USA?"

People who claim Fender trimmed the "MADE IN MEXICO" part from the Standard decals overlook the fact that all the Standard decals with MIM origin on them all burned up in the fire along with everything else. (What I always wondered was how they knew where to pickup the serial format.)

This "Standards made in USA" thing really is a moot point because even if made in the USA they still would not be the same as an American model. The wood, truss rod design, hardware and electronics are all different and they would be no more valuable quality wise than a MIM Standard. The USA made Squiers are still Squiers in every regard except the origin decal and while these USA Squiers are quite scarce they are not really more desirable than the Japanese made ones. Fender was cutting MIM bodies and cutting and fretting the MIM necks at Coronoa before the fire anyway.

I see people claiming all sorts of stuff about the fire. Sometimes when selling a USA made 1989/1990 Squier sellers reference the Ensenada factory fire as the reason why they were USA made. The fire didn't take place until 1994 but that doesn't stop them from saying the fire was the reason why it is so RARE and SCARCE and WHY THE PRICE IS SO HIGH on it and why you should BUY IT NOW before someone else does because it is a real rarity! It's bull.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Made in Mexico Precisions
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:33 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:08 pm
Posts: 474
So I assume some of the Fire Series instruments were resprays of finish flaw USA guitars and basses?
They had to make up on the money somehow. Were they all done in Vintage White? You should see my old 94 Jazz PLus. It's a Vintage White respray(you can see the old red finish on the back side) and has a bunch of Custom Shop and 70's names stamped in the neck pocket. On top of that...it's Ash. Wild stuff.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Made in Mexico Precisions
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:28 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:08 pm
Posts: 474
I should add that I've never seen another in that color(I have seen one in Olympic White) and yes..the serial number of my 94 Plus started with the prefix "MN".

Did Torres work there in '94? He's in the neck pocket. So are the two guys that built the first 100 SRV Strats. The neck heel was stamped, too(not common). Maybe the bass was made of late 70's-80's leftover wood???

Even with the tunnel in the corner neck pocket greatly overdrilled...that was the best Fender I had ever owned, factory refurbish or not.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: