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Post subject: Why do P-Basses get bigger bottom end than Jazz Basses?
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:03 pm
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I read something long ago about the pickup frequency, but have forgotten it. Anyone know?


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Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 1:36 pm
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I'm looking for a technical answer about why the pickup configuration gets a different response.


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Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:54 pm
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I don't know the specific reason in the most technical of terms, but I believe it has to do with the way the pick ups are voiced, wired, wound, their ratings and placement. Split Coil P basses "hear" string vibration more percussively, also they hear different frequency ranges differently. Split Coil P basses have alot of mids and lows, where as the two single coils in a J bass hear things much more evenly. Hence the smoother less punchy tone. However, that same thing is why J basses have their signature growl. The Single Coil P bass, which is my favorite, has almost all the muscle of the split coil P bass due to the pots and placement of the pup, but also has twice the growl of a J bass since it is a Single Coil and has no hum cancelling properties. However, if you don't know how to use it wisely it can get away from you. Just like a J bass in the wrong hands can sound very thin and weak. Split Coil P basses are very hard to make sound bad, atleast from a tone perspective.



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Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:00 pm
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FWIW, we could do an entire thread on the Split Coil P pups throughout Fender's history and why they all have different tonal characteristics and sounds. Even though most of them are technically, from a spec point of view, the same pup. (With the exception of the 57 Raised A, which is hotter then most.) Alot of it has to do with winding patterns. For instance the 59 P bass pup, and the 62 RI pup are "technically" the same. Yet the 59' has a much smoother, even tone, while the 62 gives that classic big thump. The difference is the way the pups are wound. The 62 isn't stronger, it just puts out more lows and less mids, while the 59' has a more even voicing. (Like that of the current NAS pup.)

There's so much you could go into hear, and if you're a gear head or a tone junky it could go on forever.


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Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:20 pm
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TheKingofPain wrote:
FWIW, we could do an entire thread on the Split Coil P pups throughout Fender's history and why they all have different tonal characteristics and sounds. Even though most of them are technically, from a spec point of view, the same pup. (With the exception of the 57 Raised A, which is hotter then most.) Alot of it has to do with winding patterns. For instance the 59 P bass pup, and the 62 RI pup are "technically" the same. Yet the 59' has a much smoother, even tone, while the 62 gives that classic big thump. The difference is the way the pups are wound. The 62 isn't stronger, it just puts out more lows and less mids, while the 59' has a more even voicing. (Like that of the current NAS pup.)

There's so much you could go into hear, and if you're a gear head or a tone junky it could go on forever.


D


Thanks for such a detailed answer (as usual)!

Now you've got me thinking I need a 62 RI P-Bass to compliment my 57 and 59 CS!! Wait until my wife hears this! :mrgreen:


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Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:40 pm
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Mastermold wrote:
TheKingofPain wrote:
FWIW, we could do an entire thread on the Split Coil P pups throughout Fender's history and why they all have different tonal characteristics and sounds. Even though most of them are technically, from a spec point of view, the same pup. (With the exception of the 57 Raised A, which is hotter then most.) Alot of it has to do with winding patterns. For instance the 59 P bass pup, and the 62 RI pup are "technically" the same. Yet the 59' has a much smoother, even tone, while the 62 gives that classic big thump. The difference is the way the pups are wound. The 62 isn't stronger, it just puts out more lows and less mids, while the 59' has a more even voicing. (Like that of the current NAS pup.)

There's so much you could go into hear, and if you're a gear head or a tone junky it could go on forever.


D


Thanks for such a detailed answer (as usual)!

Now you've got me thinking I need a 62 RI P-Bass to compliment my 57 and 59 CS!! Wait until my wife hears this! :mrgreen:


Hey now, don't drag me into this. I'm not sure if you know of it, or if we know each other from another forum, but the FDP is the place for Fender Bass info. Alot of the cats there know soooo much more about pretty much everything then I do. If you get a chance you should check it out. I believe that FMIC still links the board on this site.

FWIW, I feel your pain. The P bass is such a paradox, technically, you could use one your entire life and never actually need another bass. They sound great and can do everything you really ever "need". However, there are soooo many great P tones available it's hard to stop at just one. I have 3 P's in my arsenal now, and my guitarists think I'm crazy. No such thing as too much of a good thing, right? Heck, I'm dying for another 51Ri so I can have one strung with Flats and one with Rounds at all times.


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Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:18 pm
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TheKingofPain wrote:
Hey now, don't drag me into this. I'm not sure if you know of it, or if we know each other from another forum, but the FDP is the place for Fender Bass info. Alot of the cats there know soooo much more about pretty much everything then I do. If you get a chance you should check it out. I believe that FMIC still links the board on this site.

FWIW, I feel your pain. The P bass is such a paradox, technically, you could use one your entire life and never actually need another bass. They sound great and can do everything you really ever "need". However, there are soooo many great P tones available it's hard to stop at just one. I have 3 P's in my arsenal now, and my guitarists think I'm crazy. No such thing as too much of a good thing, right? Heck, I'm dying for another 51Ri so I can have one strung with Flats and one with Rounds at all times.


D


Okay what's the FDP? I just checked the links section here and didn't find anything that looked like that.

So what flats do you like? I've been using the Fender 9050MLs on just about everything lately, but I also really liked the D'Addario chromes (mediums) I was using on my 59CS. I just changed them out a few days ago for the Fenders, but I'm not sure which I'll end up sticking with.


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Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:52 pm
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Fender 9050ML's are what I swear by, and will play no other flatwounds. I know alot of cats dig the Labella 760, or the Tomastik Infields. The Labella's can be problematic on String through Body basses, but all three sound good. Just depends on the sound and feel your after. The Fender's definitely scream old school Rn'R and soul to me, even though they are a newer string. I like the higher tension on my Flats, too.


D

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Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:54 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
Fender 9050ML's are what I swear by, and will play no other flatwounds. I know alot of cats dig the Labella 760, or the Tomastik Infields. The Labella's can be problematic on String through Body basses, but all three sound good. Just depends on the sound and feel your after. The Fender's definitely scream old school Rn'R and soul to me, even though they are a newer string. I like the higher tension on my Flats, too.


D


I've had good luck with the 9050MLs too, but after a few days on my CS 59 P-Bass I took them off and put the D'Addario's back on (medium guage flats -- ECB82 Chromes) as their tone (deeper bass and warmer) works better with this particular bass. But I'm keeping the Fenders on my 57 RI as their tight/punchy tone sounds good on that bass.

It's funny how two P-basses would sound so different, but as you pointed out, they really do. Even with the same strings on, the 59 is deep and warm where the 57 is bright and punchy. So I decided to keep the strings that best match the natural tone the bass is already giving.


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Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:06 am
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Yeah, the 57P is really an animal unto itself. Up until recently it was still the hottest stock P bass pup Fender put out. The Classic 50's P usually comes in a bit hotter, but is set up similar to the 59 in pattern from what I can tell. Which is why they sound a bit like both the 59 and 57. The 57' and 59', I believe have similar built pups, both racetrack shaped, though the difference in the way they are wound and the 57's added horsepower is what gives that bass it's super aggressive mid range. Great for poppy and older soul music with a nice broken in set of flats. The 59' I always thought would sound great with the old school Fender 7150m's. SOmething about Nickel Rounds I always loved.


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Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:02 pm
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Hi, speaking of the True Master of Basses (the p of course) do you guys think that the "Fender Original P" its an upgrade for a Standard P I have a 70's MIJ that I guess its standard, thanks for the input


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Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 10:50 am
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TheKingofPain wrote:
Yeah, the 57P is really an animal unto itself. Up until recently it was still the hottest stock P bass pup Fender put out. The Classic 50's P usually comes in a bit hotter, but is set up similar to the 59 in pattern from what I can tell. Which is why they sound a bit like both the 59 and 57. The 57' and 59', I believe have similar built pups, both racetrack shaped, though the difference in the way they are wound and the 57's added horsepower is what gives that bass it's super aggressive mid range. Great for poppy and older soul music with a nice broken in set of flats. The 59' I always thought would sound great with the old school Fender 7150m's. SOmething about Nickel Rounds I always loved.


D


See this is interesting because my 57 RI doesn't sound hotter than my 59 CS, it sounds mellower. It's definitely got more mids, and sounds brighter, but has a very nice mellow tone, what I consider to be the classic old school P-Bass tone. My 59 CS has more low end and more sustain (even with identical strings), and is a little more harsh or "in your face."

What I think I've concluded (at least for now) is that my 57 RI makes a better blues/jazz bass, and my 59 CS makes a better rock bass (or heavy blues). So depending on what I'm playing, I'll use each to play to their best attributes.


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Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:50 pm
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hat's the thing, the way we "hear" bass. We assume that the louder the lower freqs are in volume comapred to the rest, then the "hotter" the sound. Why most people consider the 62' to be the most beefy P tone. It's the most bass-heavy, but it's output is exactly the same as the cs59, and both are actually less then the 57. It's just that the 57's aggressive mid punch makes the bass freqs seem less, when actually the 57 has more of everything. The way that comes across gives it that smooth old school sound. It's very nice, like I said, one of my favorite sounds in the world.


D

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Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 3:19 pm
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TheKingofPain wrote:
hat's the thing, the way we "hear" bass. We assume that the louder the lower freqs are in volume comapred to the rest, then the "hotter" the sound. Why most people consider the 62' to be the most beefy P tone. It's the most bass-heavy, but it's output is exactly the same as the cs59, and both are actually less then the 57. It's just that the 57's aggressive mid punch makes the bass freqs seem less, when actually the 57 has more of everything. The way that comes across gives it that smooth old school sound. It's very nice, like I said, one of my favorite sounds in the world.


D


Would you recommend the 62 RI P-Bass? I've not played one, and if it sounds indistinguishable from my 59 I wouldn't need it, but if there's a noticeable difference I may "need" one. :lol:


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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 2:41 pm
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Why not? A 62' RI will give you that Big Fat Bottom. (Mowtown style) Where as the 59' should give you a nice warm "fuzzy all over" feeling.
If I was a rich man, I'd have one of each in my stable.


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