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Post subject: part of my Fender family
Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:24 pm
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Hi everybody, I've been lurking here for a while but haven't posted until today - we had a nice day so I took some pictures of the family:

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L-R: '96 Bass VI reissue, Donald "Duck" Dunn Signature, '11 MIJ '70s Precision with PJ Alembic Activators

I vacillated where to post this, finally deciding on here because Precisions are mostly what I've been looking into here and they outnumber the Bass VI 2 to 1! I've got a couple of other Fenders, will post more later.

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Post subject: Re: part of my Fender family
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:57 pm
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Nice photo!

The Dunn bass looks really cool. Basically like a late 50s reissue?
What is the name of the color? Looks a little brighter than Fiesta red, but it might just be the lighting.


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Post subject: Re: part of my Fender family
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:13 pm
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The Dunn model (Japanese) is Candy Apple Red (with era correct gold metallic undercoat) and it is based on the Duck's surviving 1958 P-Bass. This is the same bass he would put a Jazz neck on later. It is often claimed there were only 150 Duck Dunn models made, but I keep seeing them around so I don't know if that 150 number is actually true or not. They do look great for sure.

Dunn bought two new 1958 P-Basses. Duck's other '58 was sunburst and was on loan to Bar-Kays bassist James Alexander when it was lost in the plane crash that killed Otis Redding and most of the Bar-Kays in Wisconsin's Lake Monona near Madison in December 1967. While the bass was lost, Alexander was flying on a commercial airline that day because Redding's plane was full. Duck's sunburst '58 P-Bass was on Redding's plane though. Trumpeter Ben Cauley was the sole survivor of the seven who boarded the chartered Beechcraft. Cauley and Alexander would rebuild the Bar-Kays later. I was 13 when my father read the story to me from the Atlanta Journal. I cut it out and saved it for a long time but it got lost.

Nice Fender bass collection!


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Post subject: Re: part of my Fender family
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:21 am
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Dunn moved to the Lakland camp a couple of years later.

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The Duck Dunn signature model became the 44-64 after the Hanson buyout.


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Post subject: Re: part of my Fender family
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:50 pm
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brotherdave wrote:
The Dunn model (Japanese) is Candy Apple Red (with era correct gold metallic undercoat) and it is based on the Duck's surviving 1958 P-Bass. This is the same bass he would put a Jazz neck on later. It is often claimed there were only 150 Duck Dunn models made, but I keep seeing them around so I don't know if that 150 number is actually true or not. They do look great for sure.

Dunn bought two new 1958 P-Basses. Duck's other '58 was sunburst and was on loan to Bar-Kays bassist James Alexander when it was lost in the plane crash that killed Otis Redding and most of the Bar-Kays in Wisconsin's Lake Monona near Madison in December 1967. While the bass was lost, Alexander was flying on a commercial airline that day because Redding's plane was full. Duck's sunburst '58 P-Bass was on Redding's plane though. Trumpeter Ben Cauley was the sole survivor of the seven who boarded the chartered Beechcraft. Cauley and Alexander would rebuild the Bar-Kays later. I was 13 when my father read the story to me from the Atlanta Journal. I cut it out and saved it for a long time but it got lost.

Nice Fender bass collection!



Dave - I thought you were an old guy cause you know so much stuff- but you are only a year older than me and I don't know squat. What's up with that?

That Dunn in the op's pic is beautifull man- what a cool bass! Is the original Dunn bass the one he played in the Blues Brothers band?

Heiroglyphicness- Those are some good looking family members! Nice. Sorry if I may have your handle wrong- my eyes have gone geezer on me . :shock:


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Post subject: Re: part of my Fender family
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:02 pm
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brotherdave wrote:
Nice Fender bass collection!

Thank you!

chromeface wrote:
Dunn moved to the Lakland camp a couple of years later.

The Duck Dunn signature model became the 44-64 after the Hanson buyout.

You just had to post that monstrosity in my thread??!!! :twisted: JK!

To get back on track, how about a pic of my early/mid-'70s Telecaster Bass:

Image

I bought it around 1993 or '94 from a friend who had mangled it - he didn't like the humbucker, so he had someone put in a single-coil (and GAVE AWAY the humbucker!) and bastardize the pickguard so it kind of looked like the earlier Tele, but it really didn't work - I'm actually glad I don't have any pictures, I'd prefer not to remember it. He didn't like the way it sounded - he was more of a regular P-Bass kind of guy - so he had it re-routed for the split-single coil! In the meantime he also had it refinished black. Oh well, my gain - I bought it for $250!

Jim Mouradian in Cambridge, MA found me a NOS humbucker, so I was able to restore it that much. I finally had it refinished "root beer" - it was supposed to be mocha or whatever the '70s Fender brown color was called, but got a little too much red. I like it though - it's not supposed to be a restoration, witness the Alembic Activators in the P position. Got rid of the tone knob for the humbucker. Also had it wired dual-mono with a jackplate from a fake Rickenbacker - you can see there are two separate cables sticking out.

I know it's not a Precision, but at least there's a P-Bass pickup in it! Here are a couple of tracks with it - both are with just the Alembic pickup:

http://soundcloud.com/hieronymous-seven/8b4x4

http://soundcloud.com/hieronymous-seven/ostronato

stroker vance wrote:
That Dunn in the op's pic is beautifull man- what a cool bass! Is the original Dunn bass the one he played in the Blues Brothers band?

Heiroglyphicness- Those are some good looking family members! Nice. Sorry if I may have your handle wrong- my eyes have gone geezer on me . :shock:

Thank you - I do have some questions and comments on the Dunn model, thinking I might start a new thread or dig up one of the older ones - I did a lot of digging around to learn more about it when I first got it a few weeks ago!

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Post subject: Re: part of my Fender family
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:40 am
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stroker vance wrote:
Dave - I thought you were an old guy cause you know so much stuff- but you are only a year older than me and I don't know squat. What's up with that?

That Dunn in the op's pic is beautifull man- what a cool bass! Is the original Dunn bass the one he played in the Blues Brothers band?


I'm just a Stax/Volt/Atlantic/Motown fan, while you are probably actually a better player than me.

Dunn used two P-Basses on screen in "The Blues Brothers." Mostly his sunburst 64 P-Bass with rosewood board and tort guard. However the stickered-up sunburst '58 was his "go to" bass for most other Blues Brothers things including the "Saturday Night Live" segments and it is a safe assumption that it was also close at hand for the recording sessions which followed the wildly popular SNL outings and preceded the motion picture. It is possible that the tort guard on the '64 was preferable for film use due potential glare from the 58's aluminum guard.

Image

Image

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In the film's Cab Callaway 1940's warm up act sequence the Duck switched to a tux and played a white with black guard and maple board P-Bass. This is not the only time I've ever seen him with this bass. I'm pretty sure I saw him use this same instrument with Aretha Franklin once.
Image

Here's Dunn's white with black guard P-Bass but it has a rosewood board.
Image

He was always partial to the '58's though for serious live play of R&B music but the CAR one with maple board didn't get much use out of the studio. If he needed anything sounding upfront with the B-15 in the studio he would use the maple board, but he obviously preferred rosewood when playing live with his own more powerful amps. In the 60's he played out with Fender Bassman stacks and then switched to Marshall Superbass rigs. At some point he went back to playing Fender tube rigs and for the SNL Blues Brothers TV segments there was a B-15 onstage but I suspect there was another amp somewhere out of view. He got an Ampeg endorsement deal sort of late in the game after 2000 and stuck with Ampeg SVT-IV's after that.

The Candy Apple Red with maple board wasn't getting used at all by the mid 1980's. He also had an early 70's Jazz he had never used much at all. He wanted to play out the red '58, but wanted it to have a rosewood board so he put the Jazz neck on it as an experiment and decided he liked it. He used this thing for almost all live gigs in that period including a Crosby, Stills and Nash tour right up until the Lakland endorsement deal and it served as the model for his signature Lakland series.

He bought the sunburst 64 that was used in the Blues Brothers films when he left THE LARGOS and signed with Booker T. & The MG's in '64. Here it is in new shape:

Image

This is the original sunburst '58 and in this photo he's just turned 18:

Image

He bought it brand new in 1958 when he was 16 and already playing in THE ROYAL SPADES, which was his first band formed with neighbor musicians and fellow high school students including Steve Cropper. The Royal Spades became the Mar-Keys after they signed to Satellite Records which was partly owned by Estelle Axton who was also the mom of one of the other Mar-Keys, sax guy Charles "Packy" Axton. Packy's uncle, Jim Stewart, owned the other 50% of Satellite Records. STewart+AXton = STAX and Satellite Records changed their name to STAX in 1961.

It seems Dunn liked the '58's the best and was always partial to them. There is no doubt the P-Bass was the Duck's favorite bass and also it is clear he only needed 4 strings. Those strings were Labella 760M's. He was willing to try different things, but usually came back to a 58 P-Bass with Labella 760M's when he wanted to play some serious old school R&B right up until the Lakland deal. He had a regular stable of Lakland signatures after that.

Regarding the '58's. He would replace the lost sunburst '58 many times over. I can't actually count how many different ones but there were at least three of them. Someone wrote on Wikipedia that the sunburst 58 Fender P-Bass was "the first bass he owned" and he kept it until his death. That doesn't jive with the book "What Duck Done" which I put more faith in and is the source for the lost sunburst bass loaned to James Alexander story which I related. Dunn related the story himself to the author of the book. I have no reason to doubt it. And to further torpedo the Wikipedia reference, Dunn's first bass was a Kay, not the sunburst '58 Fender. The Sunburst 58 was his first Fender. So the Wikipedia post is absolutely inaccurate.

MISCONCEPTION CLEAR-UP. The most often seen photo of Duck Dunn with Booker T & The MG's shows him with a 1955 P-Bass with an inverted chrome bridge cover. This leads many to believe the Duck was playing one of these for a while when that was not the case at all. He never owned a first generation P-Bass and as far as I know never played one on a recording. What happened in the photo is simple. Steve Cropper got Dunn to come to Stax and sign up to play with Booker T & The MG's one day about noon. Dunn was being signed to replace Lewie Steinberg who was leaving the MG's to finish his overdue solo album. Stax wanted publicity photos made of the MG's with Dunn fast because the MG's were due to tour soon. The photo was shot immediately after the contract was signed using Lewie Steinberg's 55 P-Bass which was handy since it was in the studio. At the time Dunn was still playing in Ben Branch's big band called The Largos. Both Dunn's P-Basses were locked up at Curry's Club, the northside nightclub where The Largos was the house band. The club was on the other side of Memphis and wouldn't be unlocked anyway for hours. Stax wanted the photo made now, so any old bass would do and who would ever care that it wasn't Duck's bass? Someone grabbed Lewie Steinberg's bass (the one used on "GREEN ONIONS") from the studio and the shot was made against the wall in the Stax lobby. After all it was just a tour PR photo right? That tour promo shot made against the lobby wall at Stax wound up being one of the most enduring photos of the MG's and led many to think Duck Dunn must have played a single coil P-Bass at first. Not true.

Image

EVEN MORE USELESS TRIVIA: Paul Shaffer, not Murphy Dunne, was the original arranger and keyboard player in the Blues Brothers band including the album projects preceding and during the film. Shaffer had a contract conflict with NBC and was also committed to a Broadway show project for Gilda Radner. Shaffer finally got some Blues Brothers screen time in the sequel film "Blues Brothers 2000" in a character role as "Marco" with a French accent and a baroque wig.


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Post subject: Re: part of my Fender family
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:58 am
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What a great thread after just a few posts. I do not own a Fender bass yet, but I have always loved the sound. Besides talking bass is just like being home. Brand names are second to me.

Great lookin' family there Heironymous. I was grooving with some of your tunes briefly. I will be back for more. Very inspiring. Sounds like you have a real drummer in the tunes I gave an ear to.

Always a pleasure to listen to whatever you have to say Brodave. There is a timeless and important quality to the role you are playing. A storyteller, keeper of the tradition sort of thing. Pardon my getting all archetypal here. There is nothing trivial about culture.

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Post subject: Re: part of my Fender family
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:53 am
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hieronymous wrote:
You just had to post that monstrosity in my thread??!!! :twisted: JK!


The picture I've had posted is solely intended for reference purposes, sorry for any inconvenience. :shock:

brotherdave wrote:
He bought the sunburst 64 that was used in the Blues Brothers films when he left THE LARGOS and signed with Booker T. & The MG's in '64.


The Lakland 44-64 is based on that bass except it has a bound tuxedo Jazz neck with blocks.

Of course bound tuxedo necks didn't came into surface until 1966/67.

Quote:
However the stickered-up sunburst '58 was his "go to" bass for most other Blues Brothers things including the "Saturday Night Live" segments and it is a safe assumption that it was also close at hand for the recording sessions which followed the wildly popular SNL outings and preceded the motion picture. It is possible that the tort guard on the '64 was preferable for film use due potential glare from the 58's aluminum guard.


Donald used the stickered-up sunburst '58 extensively while on tour with Eric Clapton in the early-to-mid 1980s.

Image


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Post subject: Re: part of my Fender family
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:08 am
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chromeface wrote:
hieronymous wrote:
You just had to post that monstrosity in my thread??!!! :twisted: JK!


The picture I've had posted is solely intended for reference purposes, sorry for any inconvenience. :shock:

No, I apologize - I was just joking around! Sometimes people only know about the Laklands, but others have never heard of them - I spent so much time digging for info that I got sick of seeing the Laklands, but for archival purposes it's good to have the info you posted - thank you.

chromeface wrote:
Donald used the stickered-up sunburst '58 extensively while on tour with Eric Clapton in the early-to-mid 1980s.

Image

Thank you for posting this pic - the Live Aid performance was the first visual I had of Duck Dunn - yes, I lived a sheltered life and never saw the Blues Brothers until MUCH later in life!

OK, let's have more pics of the Signature Bass:

Image

Image

It was strung with light gauge Chromes when I got it - they were a little too thin, the A was swimming in the nut - so I replaced them with GHS M3050 flats based on a recommendation by Brother Dave in a different thread - just be aware that the low E is quite long and as you can see in the picture some of the un-silked portion has to wrap around the tuning post - no problems though, they feel and sound great! Slightly lower tension than the Chromes. I'll be rehearsing with the bass for the first time tomorrow night - I'll report back!

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Post subject: Re: part of my Fender family
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:08 am
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You can add a set of ashtray covers to complete the vintage look (since the pickguard is drilled for) and a '62 Jazz Bass pickup in the bridge to complement the '57 Precision Bass split-coil humbucker. :)

You'll get two versatile PJ basses to cover all the bases.


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Post subject: Re: part of my Fender family
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:30 am
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chromeface wrote:
You can add a set of ashtray covers to complete the vintage look (since the pickguard is drilled for) and a '62 Jazz Bass pickup in the bridge to complement the '57 Precision Bass split-coil humbucker. :)

You'll get two versatile PJ basses to cover all the bases.

Nah, I'm keeping this one stock! These are quite rare, and to me it works just fine as-is - this is my flatwound thump machine, the white one has rounds - if I do any more mods, it will be to the white one - Badass II bridge perhaps? :twisted: Dimarzio Model One by the neck? 8)

brotherdave wrote:
The Dunn model (Japanese) is Candy Apple Red (with era correct gold metallic undercoat) and it is based on the Duck's surviving 1958 P-Bass. This is the same bass he would put a Jazz neck on later. It is often claimed there were only 150 Duck Dunn models made, but I keep seeing them around so I don't know if that 150 number is actually true or not. They do look great for sure.

Brother Dave, like you, I am not sure how many they made. I have seen 150, 200, 400 & 1000. My guess is 200, since I have #153! But I have also met someone with both #7 and #233 - he said that the way the 233 is written on the headstock is different than his #7 - not sure which one is different, haven't seen pictures. The plot thickens!

Oh yes, thanks also for the Duck Dunn info - your knowledge is amazing and helps clear some of the muddy waters. The Blues Brothers movie was on the other day and I really enjoyed watching it - I think I "got it" for the first time this time around. The thumb rest next to the pickguard is interesting, makes the bass instantly recognizable - it's hanging on the wall behind Ray Charles at the pawnshop in the credits at the end of the movie!

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Post subject: Re: part of my Fender family
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:51 am
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I've only ever owned one (1) bass with a maple 'board, a black Ernie Ball Stingray, probably 6 or 7 years ago. Not sure why, but maple just never seemed to float my boat and I don't think it was a sound thing. I just prefer the rosewood (or even ebony) look and feel.

But the more I look at the Dunn bass, the more I'm digging it. That dark amber tint on the maple fretboard is stunning against the red.


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Post subject: Re: part of my Fender family
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:22 pm
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jasonthefox wrote:
I've only ever owned one (1) bass with a maple 'board, a black Ernie Ball Stingray, probably 6 or 7 years ago. Not sure why, but maple just never seemed to float my boat and I don't think it was a sound thing. I just prefer the rosewood (or even ebony) look and feel.

But the more I look at the Dunn bass, the more I'm digging it. That dark amber tint on the maple fretboard is stunning against the red.

I hear ya - personally, I've never gone for Candy Apple Red but I love this bass! Same with gold anodized pickguards. Oh well, our tastes change and that keeps things interesting.

Received some VERY INTERESTING NEWS - Duck Dunn signature bass #233 exists, but its serial number is totally different - printed rather than engraved. Maybe they made an initial run of 200, then made 50 or so more to fulfill outstanding orders?

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Post subject: Re: part of my Fender family
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:32 am
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hieronymous wrote:
.... I'm keeping this one stock! These are quite rare, and to me it works just fine as-is - this is my flatwound thump machine, the white one has rounds - if I do any more mods, it will be to the white one - Badass II bridge perhaps? :twisted: Dimarzio Model One by the neck? 8).....

...like you, I am not sure how many they made. I have seen 150, 200, 400 & 1000. My guess is 200, since I have #153! But I have also met someone with both #7 and #233 - he said that the way the 233 is written on the headstock is different than his #7 - not sure which one is different, haven't seen pictures. The plot thickens!

Oh yes, thanks also for the Duck Dunn info - your knowledge is amazing and helps clear some of the muddy waters. The Blues Brothers movie was on the other day and I really enjoyed watching it - I think I "got it" for the first time this time around. The thumb rest next to the pickguard is interesting, makes the bass instantly recognizable - it's hanging on the wall behind Ray Charles at the pawnshop in the credits at the end of the movie!


I would not dare touch a screw or solder joint on the Fender Duck Dunn myself either. There is no telling what they will be worth in another 5 years. You are right they were limited. I wouldn't say rare, but limited. I'm thinking the scenario was possibly 150 for USA and 150 more for Japanese domestic and Europe combined perhaps. There are surely more than 150 in all and you finding number 233 proves that they kept them rolling out longer than 150 copies. That 150 number is thrown around a lot by dealers who have one they are trying to sell you. If there truly were only 150 of them I could not have possibly run across so many of them. There are Fender Japanese basses that I hardly ever see around like the Fender Performer which were made in unlimited numbers. But about once every couple of years I run into a Fender Duck. They show up on eBay way more often than a Performer too.

I have seen about 5 Duck copies in person. I've played 3. I wanted one badly when they first came out.

Starting sometime after 1961 Dunn always removed the chrome pickup cover so he could play over the pickup while using the top of the pickup for a thumbrest. The bridge covers lasted longer than the pickup covers but they too would get lost eventually. For sure chrome pickup covers absolutely have no place on any Duck Dunn model. Screw holes maybe, but not the covers.

The maple necked '58 in Candy Apple Red was a Fender Fullerton REFINISH that started out sunburst. It was stripped down to bare wood by very early 68 and he played it stripped for a while using it in the studio ala John Lennon's Epi Casino, then eventually Duck sent it back to Fender for a refinish. (Back then Fender was still doing factory refinishes.)

If you think about it that this was just after the Wisconsin crash. I've seen photos of him playing the stripped 58 at multiple late 60's sessions. It looked sort of funny being just bare raw unfinished wood. I often thought that maybe seeing it in sunburst at that time reminded him of things he didn't want to think about so he stripped the sunburst off, bought the two white ones (again one rosewood and one maple) and then sent off the remaining original '58 for a refinish. I can see how someone might confuse the Candy Apple Red 58 P-Bass with a 64 since Candy Apple Red wasn't introduced until 1963. But Duck's Candy Apple Red bass with maple board was for sure a 1958, not a 1964. And one of two he bought when the Royal Spades signed at Satellite Records.

I'm assuming all that about the reason behind his apparent sudden aversion to sunburst as I've no proof of it, but it does make some sense when you think about the timing of the change, how you'd react yourself to such a huge tragedy and then take into account Duck's sometimes over-reactive personality. Duke knew every musician on that plane on a nickname basis. They were essentially about one-fourth of the the Stax family. In a few year's time though he did acquire at least two other sunburst 58's so his sunburst aversion obviously passed. Someone should have asked him about that, but he was notoriously shy when talking to writers and never volunteered much he was not asked about directly. An insight into his over-reactive personality was his vocal post-1975 position on revoking the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution. Following the 1975 shooting death of MG's drummer Al Jackson, Jr. by an intruder at Jackson's residence Duck wanted guns eliminated in America. He did not want guns controlled but instead totally eliminated.


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