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Post subject: Were there Fender JB 5 string in 1973 or 1974?
Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:36 am
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Hello

I have an opportunity to purchase a Fender JB Custom 5 string, natural finish, serial 374944 on the neck plate.
2 pickups: One precision (in the standard position) and one bartolini jazzbass (in bridge position).

Here is one picture of the neck plate

Image

and one of the pickups:

Image

According to the serial number, it would have been built in 1973 or 1974. Were there really 5 string JB then?

Any detail regarding this bass that you can give me would be much appreciated.

I can post other pictures if need be.

Thanks in advance

Mr The V


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Post subject: Re: Were there Fender JB 5 string in 1973 or 1974?
Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:43 am
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From you pictures, the only part of that bass that was made by Fender was the neck plate. That is not a real Fender bass.

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Post subject: Re: Were there Fender JB 5 string in 1973 or 1974?
Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:11 am
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Thanks for the fast answer


Actually, it *might* have been a real Fender bass but if it was, it has been really modified. The 5th string has been added (high C?), the pickups have been changed, the finish has certainly been sanded.

Here are pictures of the headstock:
Image

Image

OK, so be it for this bass, I won't acquire it...

Does anyone know when the first 5-string JB custom have been produced ?


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Post subject: Re: Were there Fender JB 5 string in 1973 or 1974?
Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:00 pm
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OMG!
:shock:
What butcher cobbled together that hack job?!
:evil:
Who cares, really.
:roll:
RUN!

:lol:

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Post subject: Re: Were there Fender JB 5 string in 1973 or 1974?
Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:25 pm
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Yes, now that I have all the pictures I'll run for sure...

Back to my research for a second hand Roscoe Beck, here, in Europe.


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Post subject: Re: Were there Fender JB 5 string in 1973 or 1974?
Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:08 pm
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Says Precision on decal, not Jazz. This is most likely a modified 5 string P-Bass neck either on a Fender or other body. The control plate appears to be a Music Man.


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Post subject: Re: Were there Fender JB 5 string in 1973 or 1974?
Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:59 pm
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Brotherdave is right, this 5er is definitely a "frankenbass".

CBS did a Bass V in the mid-1960s tuned EADGC.

Image

Unfortunately this ill-fated model sold poorly and Fender did not offer another 5-string bass guitar until the 1980s.


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Post subject: Re: Were there Fender JB 5 string in 1973 or 1974?
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:50 am
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With the strings so close together it would seem that bass might take some serious getting used to. That neck is probably worth about zero now BUT it is on a bass. I'd like to hear it and play it actually. It looks heavy. There looks like there is too much wood bordering the neckplate for the body to be a Fender.


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Post subject: Re: Were there Fender JB 5 string in 1973 or 1974?
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:20 pm
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That Fender Bass V was in production from 1965 till 1970. Less than 1000 were ever produced. The body was elongated and sort of a cross between a Mustang, a Jazz and I don't know what else. The pickups were similar also to the Mustang Bass. Notice it only has 15 frets? Very odd duck especially considering the total length is about 3 inches LONGER than a Precision Bass.

When CBS pulled the plug on the Bass V they had many bodies stockpiled for it, so a new short scale 6 string guitar model was released in 1969 that used up the Bass V bodies after some recutting and rerouting. Fender R&D had nothing to do with it at all as it was prototyped totally by production not by R&D or even marketing. This new model took other parts from the Musicmaster Electric Guitar including the neck with a reshaped pointy (like an Arrow) headstock. The new model was a student budget guitar sometimes called THE SWINGER. Since the pickup routing was already done on the surplus Bass V bodies the bodies were rerouted with a second pickup routing closer to the neck and the pickguard covered the original Bass V pickup routing. Existing control routing was used. The bodies were also trimmed down to a more manageable size and weight for a student guitar but you can still see the Bass V influence. The Swinger wasn't very hot either, partly because Fender didn't promote it much. After all it was not intended to be anything but a way to get rid of excess parts! It never actually appeared in the Fender catalog.

Depending on who you source, less than 600 of them or less than 300 were assembled during the short 1969 run. The truth possibly lies somewhere closer to 300 than 600 due the scarcity in the collector market. Fender accomplished two things with the Swinger, they got rid of the excess Bass V bodies plus excess Musicmaster parts, and created one of the shortest run 6 string guitars in their history which are now quite collectible merely because they were such a short run. I've never actually seen a SWINGER decal on one in person and usually in the absence of the SWINGER name on the decal these are commonly called Fender Arrows due to the headstock shape. This model was also known as the Musiclander. But again I never saw a MUSICLANDER decal either. Three different names for the exact same guitar! This model was and remains especially popular with female players who found it more ergonomic to them than a Mustang or Musicmaster.

So if you thought the Bass V was freaky-deaky, get a load of this!

THE FENDER SWINGER/ARROW/MUSICLANDER:

Image


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Post subject: Re: Were there Fender JB 5 string in 1973 or 1974?
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:30 pm
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Thanks a ton for all these details.

Now, all this makes me wondering... do you know when the first "real" 5-string bass (BEADG) was produced by Fender, and what it was? A PB or a JB (or anything else)?

Thanks in advance


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Post subject: Re: Were there Fender JB 5 string in 1973 or 1974?
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:14 pm
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MrTheV wrote:
Thanks a ton for all these details.

Now, all this makes me wondering... do you know when the first "real" 5-string bass (BEADG) was produced by Fender, and what it was? A PB or a JB (or anything else)?

Thanks in advance


The earliest one I remember was the 1995 Fender American Standard Jazz Bass V. This was followed by a DELUXE model Jazz Bass V in 1996, I've seen a commemorative anniversary model of it. Fender Mexico followed with a Jazz Bass V a bit later, possibly as late as 1998.

Fender was way behind the curve on 5 string BEADG basses. By 1979 the prototypical die had been cast in custom jobs from Alembic and Ken Smith, additionally Michael Tobias admits he also built at least one. 5 string BEADG basses remained in the realm of a custom instrument and would not go into anything you could call "mass production" until 1986 with the 5 string MusicMan Stingray. After that other mass producers scrambled to get a 5 string BEADG electric bass to market quickly and within 2 years there were many more brands. But Fender, perhaps because of the poor sales of the 60's Bass V, was about the last major force to offer one.


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Post subject: Re: Were there Fender JB 5 string in 1973 or 1974?
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:23 pm
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The Swinger/Musiclander headstock design became the basis for the shortlived, radically shaped MIJ Performer/Katana series, designed by John Page in the 1980s.

The Katana was also available as a Squier model.


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Post subject: Re: Were there Fender JB 5 string in 1973 or 1974?
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:39 pm
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brotherdave wrote:
That Fender Bass V was in production from 1965 till 1970. Less than 1000 were ever produced. The body was elongated and sort of a cross between a Mustang, a Jazz and I don't know what else. The pickups were similar also to the Mustang Bass. Notice it only has 15 frets? Very odd duck especially considering the total length is about 3 inches LONGER than a Precision Bass.

When CBS pulled the plug on the Bass V they had many bodies stockpiled for it, so a new short scale 6 string guitar model was released in 1969 that used up the Bass V bodies after some recutting and rerouting. Fender R&D had nothing to do with it at all as it was prototyped totally by production not by R&D or even marketing. This new model took other parts from the Musicmaster Electric Guitar including the neck with a reshaped pointy (like an Arrow) headstock. The new model was a student budget guitar sometimes called THE SWINGER. Since the pickup routing was already done on the surplus Bass V bodies the bodies were rerouted with a second pickup routing closer to the neck and the pickguard covered the original Bass V pickup routing. Existing control routing was used. The bodies were also trimmed down to a more manageable size and weight for a student guitar but you can still see the Bass V influence. The Swinger wasn't very hot either, partly because Fender didn't promote it much. After all it was not intended to be anything but a way to get rid of excess parts! It never actually appeared in the Fender catalog.

Depending on who you source, less than 600 of them or less than 300 were assembled during the short 1969 run. The truth possibly lies somewhere closer to 300 than 600 due the scarcity in the collector market. Fender accomplished two things with the Swinger, they got rid of the excess Bass V bodies plus excess Musicmaster parts, and created one of the shortest run 6 string guitars in their history which are now quite collectible merely because they were such a short run. I've never actually seen a SWINGER decal on one in person and usually in the absence of the SWINGER name on the decal these are commonly called Fender Arrows due to the headstock shape. This model was also known as the Musiclander. But again I never saw a MUSICLANDER decal either. Three different names for the exact same guitar! This model was and remains especially popular with female players who found it more ergonomic to them than a Mustang or Musicmaster.

So if you thought the Bass V was freaky-deaky, get a load of this!

THE FENDER SWINGER/ARROW/MUSICLANDER:

Image


CBS did the same thing with the Custom/Maverick, which was essentially a 6-string Electric XII with a Mustang tremolo and a bound tuxedo rosewood neck with blocks.

The Custom/Maverick was offered in 3-tone sunburst with a tort pickguard as standard, though I saw Cheap Trick's lead guitar nut Rick Nielsen having one in Fiesta Red with a 3-ply mint pickguard and a matching headstock.

Image

THE FENDER CUSTOM/MAVERICK

Image


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Post subject: Re: Were there Fender JB 5 string in 1973 or 1974?
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:17 pm
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Chromeface that is truly a rare instrument! I've never actually seen one in person!


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Post subject: Re: Were there Fender JB 5 string in 1973 or 1974?
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:08 am
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As stated in my recent post concerning the Swinger, its "arrow" heastock served as a template for the Performer and Katana.

The only Performer Bass I saw to the date was the Standard, which was crafted in Japan. But I never heard anything from the USA Elite Performers, which lacked off a pickguard and sported three special design active humbucking pickups and an ebony fretboard.


I believe the USA Elite P-Bass I and II were more common than the Performer.

John Page, the man who was behind the Performer and Katana series, designed a five-string version of the Performer Bass in 1987 that never made it past the prototype stage.

Image

Although it didn’t catch on with players and it too suffered from Fender’s post-CBS instability of the mid-1980s, the Performer Bass nonetheless had notable strengths and was a well-conceived attempt at a modern direction for Fender basses quite apart from the long-established Precision/Jazz tradition. It was discontinued after only a year. Performer basses are regarded today as a something of a curiosity, albeit interesting and well-built ones, and they command high prices in the infrequent instances when they show up for sale.

Squier’s short-lived Katana Bass was released concurrently with Fender’s equally short-lived Katana guitar of 1985-1986. The genesis of both came with the mid-1980s rise of hair metal, during which Fender jumped on the pointy-guitars bandwagon with perhaps the most extraordinarily non-traditional models the company has ever made.

Image

Like the Fender and budget Squier Katana guitar models, the Katana Bass was built in Japan and named for that nation’s traditional samurai sword, with an asymmetrical V-shaped body, arrow-shaped headstock and the additional unusual distinction of a medium (32”) scale length. Although actually quite well built, the Katana instruments were not successful and it didn’t help that they arrived during one of the most tumultuous periods in Fender history.

Katana guitar and bass models lasted barely a year; all were gone by late 1986.


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