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Post subject: American Hot Rodded Precision P/J pups phenomenon, need help
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:47 am
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I had just purchased an used all original 2000 American Hot Rodded Precision bass, control is still in it's original vol-vol-tone and no mods has been done to this bass upon inspection. I've played P-basses in my past and the J-bass for the last three years so I'm familiar with their tonal qualities. On this American Hot Rod P, I love how each pup sound when solo'ed. The P pups sounds like....well....any other Am. Std. P-bass I've played, the bridge J pup sounds much better than my Am. Std. J bass(when bridge solo'ed). I understand this particular model has different pups than the Am. Std. So far so good, I like what I'm hearing.

Here is the weird phenomenon(or perhaps normal), when both pups are on full, I lose a bit of low end, not a dramatic lost in db level, but definitely lost that low end punch enough to be noticed. Either P or J pups has more of that low end kick when solo'ed on their own. When I gradually roll off either volume knob, there are no dramatic "cut offs", but it's most pronounced when I roll off the J pup vol, the low end punch gradually comes back in.

I guess my question is, is this normal for this bass model? Could it be some kind of loss due to loads on the pots or perhaps a faulty pot? Doesn't sound like a phase issue to me but then again I have not tried to rewire anything yet. BTW, I'm planning on modding the control knobs for the Vol-Blend-Tone configuration, just like on my J-bass as it's worked perfectly for me for the past.

thanks


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Post subject: Re: American Hot Rodded Precision P/J pups phenomenon, need
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:55 am
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soundtweakerz wrote:
I had just purchased an used all original 2000 American Hot Rodded Precision bass, control is still in it's original vol-vol-tone and no mods has been done to this bass upon inspection. I've played P-basses in my past and the J-bass for the last three years so I'm familiar with their tonal qualities. On this American Hot Rod P, I love how each pup sound when solo'ed. The P pups sounds like....well....any other Am. Std. P-bass I've played, the bridge J pup sounds much better than my Am. Std. J bass(when bridge solo'ed). I understand this particular model has different pups than the Am. Std. So far so good, I like what I'm hearing.

Here is the weird phenomenon(or perhaps normal), when both pups are on full, I lose a bit of low end, not a dramatic lost in db level, but definitely lost that low end punch enough to be noticed. Either P or J pups has more of that low end kick when solo'ed on their own. When I gradually roll off either volume knob, there are no dramatic "cut offs", but it's most pronounced when I roll off the J pup vol, the low end punch gradually comes back in.

I guess my question is, is this normal for this bass model? Could it be some kind of loss due to loads on the pots or perhaps a faulty pot? Doesn't sound like a phase issue to me but then again I have not tried to rewire anything yet. BTW, I'm planning on modding the control knobs for the Vol-Blend-Tone configuration, just like on my J-bass as it's worked perfectly for me for the past.

thanks


perfectly normal. That's the trade-off of having a J pup. it gives you more versatility, but it robs some of the punch from the split coil. Why the J pup solo'd has more punch I don't know as it's very weak compared to the split coil. However, you have to remember that while you are turning the pups down either way you go, you are not turning them OFF. Having that J pup, or conversely the P pup, in the mix affects the way your bass "hears" the string vibration and the weaker pup, in the weaker position, and the fact that it's a single coil all go into robbing you of that final bit of percussive P punch. A reason why I'm assuming that Tony Franklin outfitted his Sig P with a three stage selector switch so he could get around that problem. Giving him the ability to play a straight single coil P, P/J, or J bridge truly solo'd. Even the "best of both worlds" bass is a compromise. Sorry. :?

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Post subject: Re: American Hot Rodded Precision P/J pups phenomenon, need
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:48 am
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His Royal Highness is correct. What is happening is loading. Pickup switching, installing a 3-position toggle for example, is a good solution but in the position with both pickups on loading will still happen. Fender rarely ever puts a switch on P/J's but did on the JP90 which is precisely why I always liked that bass's control setup so much.

If you dislike the way it is with the factory Vol/Vol/Tone setup I don't think you'll like the Master Vol/Blend/Tone setup any better as this will not improve the loading situation and actually make it worse because it will be loading all the time after the mod instead of just when both volume pots are hot as it is now. While more convenient when gigging Master Vol/Blend/Tone mods will not improve the loading situation. Leo Fender settled on Vol/Vol/Tone as best for the Jazz and it also works best for the P/J either with or without a switch.

While I have a P/J setup in Master Vol/Blend/Tone it has pickups specially designed by Bill Lawrence for that setup and they have extra leads whose function is to somewhat mitigate the constant loading issue inherent in a Master vol/blend/tone control array but even with this custom designed pickup set I'm still not thrilled with the loading situation as it is still an issue!

Another way around this entire mess is to install an active preamp. I am not exactly what you'd call an active bass proponent, but a P/J is one situation where an active preamp is sensible.


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Post subject: Re: American Hot Rodded Precision P/J pups phenomenon, need
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:29 pm
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The more I look at the Franklin Sig the more I wish it had a vintage neck. I think if I had the P/J set up with the three stage selector AND my SCPB 51RI P I'd be about as set for tones as I'd ever need to be. It's a pretty awesome mod, and one I'm surprised Fender never put into production themselves regularly.

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Post subject: Re: American Hot Rodded Precision P/J pups phenomenon, need
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:28 pm
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The Tony Franklin Signature Precision with the P/J setup is pretty much the same electronic setup as the JP90 of 22 years ago, but with better pickups. One volume, one tone, one three-way switch. I've only ever seen fretless Franklins but I think they have made fretted ones.


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Post subject: Re: American Hot Rodded Precision P/J pups phenomenon, need
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:34 pm
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The Precision Bass Plus (aka "The Boner") came with a 3-way pickup selector.


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Post subject: Re: American Hot Rodded Precision P/J pups phenomenon, need
Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:57 am
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True. Like this Plus:

Image

The Plus used a 3 way Switchcraft toggle. The Franklin uses a Switchcraft 3 position blade switch similar to the 5 position Strat switch. It is a lower profile device and unless you look closely you can miss it entirely.

Find the switch on the Franklin!

Image


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Post subject: Re: American Hot Rodded Precision P/J pups phenomenon, need
Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:11 am
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I DID! I DID! I DID! It's right there :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: American Hot Rodded Precision P/J pups phenomenon, need
Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:02 am
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CONGRATS thebassopotomous!


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Post subject: Re: American Hot Rodded Precision P/J pups phenomenon, need
Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:47 am
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@brotherdave

The Plus you've posted dates from 1993, and more precisely a couple of months before its discontinuation; it does not have the series/parallel push-push switch for the neck pickup.


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Post subject: Re: American Hot Rodded Precision P/J pups phenomenon, need
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:38 am
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I will get a chance to plug this P/J bass in today in my rig for the first time. So we'll see. The bass is still at the "fresh string" stage so the final tone is to be determined.

If by changing my control configuration to Vol-Blend-Tone the load becomes "theoretical" higher, how noticeable will this higher load be to the ear? With my Jazz bass I did not notice any of these loading issue while in it's original Vol-Vol-Tone, and I never noticed any differences by changing to Vol-Blend-Tone. In fact the biggest improve in tone happened when I upgraded to a pio cap(thank you brotherdave).

At the end of the day, if I find usable tone from this bass that I can groove with the loading issues really aren't going to bother me. But I'd love to be able to have a Master Vol. knob either with a Blend knob or a rotary 3-way switch, whichever is better for this set up. A custom P/J pups set is not out of the question also.

last but not least let me open another can of worms......
I've got a spare S-1 switch, would the P/J pups in series help with the loading issue at all?

thanks for all the help


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Post subject: Re: American Hot Rodded Precision P/J pups phenomenon, need
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:27 am
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chromeface wrote:
@brotherdave

The Plus you've posted dates from 1993, and more precisely a couple of months before its discontinuation; it does not have the series/parallel push-push switch for the neck pickup.


True Chromeface, but we weren't talking about phasing. We were talking about pickup switching. I'm sure some people enjoyed trying to figure out what that push on/push off switch did. On some amps it was hard to tell that it did anything at all.


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Post subject: Re: American Hot Rodded Precision P/J pups phenomenon, need
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:27 am
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chromeface wrote:
The Precision Bass Plus (aka "The Boner") came with a 3-way pickup selector.



hahahahah, the "Boner Bass"! I haven't heard that in years. I actually just laughed out loud. Good times. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: American Hot Rodded Precision P/J pups phenomenon, need
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:33 am
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brotherdave wrote:
The Tony Franklin Signature Precision with the P/J setup is pretty much the same electronic setup as the JP90 of 22 years ago, but with better pickups. One volume, one tone, one three-way switch. I've only ever seen fretless Franklins but I think they have made fretted ones.



Yeah, I remember when it came out I was crushed it had a modern neck. I would have gotten it then, and it still kills me every time I see it.

The old JP90's never got the respect they deserved. It's tough for Fender sometimes, I think. They are so good at what they do, but in the end musicians like what is comfortable for the most part. Anything that looks "too modern" or "out there" and it gets pushed back before being given a good chance. At least it seems where Fender is concerned.

Not that I'm one to talk as I play a 51RI, but I always try to pick up any of the "modern" Fenders to at least try them out when I'm in a shop. Most are really nice. I just never like them better then the traditional Ps. :?

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Post subject: Re: American Hot Rodded Precision P/J pups phenomenon, need
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:12 pm
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I think as far as the vintage neck radius is concerned that pretty much is either the Custom Shop's and Fender Japan's forte right now. Such as your 51 Reissue.


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