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Post subject: Re: Split Coil into single coil???????
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:30 am
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King Of Pain, the pickup you had "trouble" with looked like this one?

Image

That is bizarre as I've done this upgrade not only for myself TWICE but for three other owners of 51's and Stings (which are essentially the same body/electronics) and never had to do a thing to a genuine Fender pickup cavity but drop it in. The knock-offs required some routing work but not the genuine Fender instruments.

So far as a pot swap goes, there is no real tonal nor operational benefit from replacing the stock mini-pots with full sized CTS pots since a 250k pot is a 250k pot regardless of the size of the pot. So long as the pots aren't giving any trouble such as noise or a razor edge, then I wouldn't bother changing the pots out which definitely requires routing out the control cavity and often the control holes on the control plate. If the pots were giving trouble then it should be the owner's call if they want to hack on the cavity or replace with new mini-pots. Either way there is no tonal or operational advantage since the pots are tonally identical. If you swap the pots you may also possibly find that your knobs don't fit the full sized shaft correctly either, so that is more expense to replace with the correct knobs for the larger shaft pots. Not to mention having to drill out the holes on the control plate isn't much fun. I'd just stick to the mini-pots unless they need replacing and then personally I'd prefer to use fresh mini-pots to avoid unnecessary complications.

A far more productive upgrade for a 51 RI would be a better tone cap. The chicklet poly cap on the stock CIJ 51 RI and Sting is one of my least favorite tone caps. The only other upgrade I'd consider for a 51 RI or Sting is a full copper shielding job on the control and pickup cavities. If using a split coil pickup a shielding job has always been optional in my personal experience though since the instrument will be essentially as resistant to RFI as a second generation P-Bass. If using the original single coil or any other single coil then a copper shielding job makes a huge improvement in RFI rejection and it would absolutely be recommended.

The big issue I have with the custom made split coil 51 P-Bass/Tele Bass pickups is that while they have the noise rejection of a second generation pickup, they also sound more like a second generation than a first generation P-Bass pickup. The tone of the original single coil pickup design is far more airy and punchy. I prefer that original single coil tone most of the time myself, but in cases where the instrument will be used in various environments in which the player can't control RFI then putting in the split coil will make the instrument practically immune to RFI. In short while it will look like a first-generation P-Bass it won't sound much like one. The upside is that you can gig or even record with it in RFI hostile environments that would make the stock single coil practically unusable.


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Post subject: Re: Split Coil into single coil???????
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:58 am
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brotherdave wrote:
King Of Pain, the pickup you had "trouble" with looked like this one?

Image

That is bizarre as I've done this upgrade not only for myself TWICE but for three other owners of 51's and Stings (which are essentially the same body/electronics) and never had to do a thing to a genuine Fender pickup cavity but drop it in. The knock-offs required some routing work but not the genuine Fender instruments.

So far as a pot swap goes, there is no real tonal nor operational benefit from replacing the stock mini-pots with full sized CTS pots since a 250k pot is a 250k pot regardless of the size of the pot. So long as the pots aren't giving any trouble such as noise or a razor edge, then I wouldn't bother changing the pots out which definitely requires routing out the control cavity and often the control holes on the control plate. If the pots were giving trouble then it should be the owner's call if they want to hack on the cavity or replace with new mini-pots. Either way there is no tonal or operational advantage since the pots are tonally identical. If you swap the pots you may also possibly find that your knobs don't fit the full sized shaft correctly either, so that is more expense to replace with the correct knobs for the larger shaft pots. Not to mention having to drill out the holes on the control plate isn't much fun. I'd just stick to the mini-pots unless they need replacing and then personally I'd prefer to use fresh mini-pots to avoid unnecessary complications.

A far more productive upgrade for a 51 RI would be a better tone cap. The chicklet poly cap on the stock CIJ 51 RI and Sting is one of my least favorite tone caps. The only other upgrade I'd consider for a 51 RI or Sting is a full copper shielding job on the control and pickup cavities. If using a split coil pickup a shielding job has always been optional in my personal experience though since the instrument will be essentially as resistant to RFI as a second generation P-Bass. If using the original single coil or any other single coil then a copper shielding job makes a huge improvement in RFI rejection and it would absolutely be recommended.

The big issue I have with the custom made split coil 51 P-Bass/Tele Bass pickups is that while they have the noise rejection of a second generation pickup, they also sound more like a second generation than a first generation P-Bass pickup. The tone of the original single coil pickup design is far more airy and punchy. I prefer that original single coil tone most of the time myself, but in cases where the instrument will be used in various environments in which the player can't control RFI then putting in the split coil will make the instrument practically immune to RFI. In short while it will look like a first-generation P-Bass it won't sound much like one. The upside is that you can gig or even record with it in RFI hostile environments that would make the stock single coil practically unusable.



No my 51 RI is a CIJ Fender and I think it's perfect. I would never replace the pup, and should the pots go I'll upgrade to the CTS harness and do the routing. The trouble I had was, as I said, with putting a Duncan raised A vintage split coil into an CIJ RI bass. I've know people to have trouble with putting an aftermarket single coil in SOME CIJ SCPBs. I think it was one of the Paisley models, and a Sting. However as they are all the same plank I'd think it's possible that he may run into trouble with his Squier, especially as it's not a CIJ RI, but a cheap knock off of a CIJ RI. I'm just trying to make sure he's aware that 9 out of 10 times this could go flawlessly. There's always that 10% chance. In the case of a 51, paisley, or Sting? I'd say it's worth the money if you're unhappy with it. In the case of a Squier? I'd think the CBA in both time and money says you'd be better off with a better bass. Again, as to my original routing comment that was in regards to the original question of putting a Split Coil into an SCPB. Which is why I mentioned the Stacked Coil to begin with. To put a true Split Coil in it's place routing would have to be done.

Also, I've shielded my control and pup cavities. I'm not green behind the ears when it comes to the SCPBs.

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Post subject: Re: Split Coil into single coil???????
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:16 am
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That is a Lindy Fralin 51 SPLIT COIL in the photo I posted.


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Post subject: Re: Split Coil into single coil???????
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:36 am
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brotherdave wrote:
That is a Lindy Fralin 51 SPLIT COIL in the photo I posted.



Yeah, I get that. However, as you and I both know that specialty pick up isn't what the OP had in mind. While I'm sure it's pretty damn close to what a split coil sounds like, it's even placement won't hit a traditional split coils balance (or lack there of) exactly. Also, you're talking about dumping 150 dollars into a pick up into a low end bass, with low end electronics. It's not like by the time he's done he couldn't have just gotten a used Anniversary bass, or the Dirnt which has a split coil, and the same early 50's pickguard for the "look" he likes and get a better quality instrument in the process. Just trying to provide a different perspective. It's not like he spent a lot of money on a well crafted single coil only to discover the sound wasn't what he liked. Then I'd agree with dumping money into it. When your pick up is worth almost half your bass' brand new value I think you're polishing a turd. JMO, of course.

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2014 Fender Super Bassman and Bassman 100T/410 Neo


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Post subject: Re: Split Coil into single coil???????
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:51 pm
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Easier to say that putting an expensive PU in a cheap bass-- you'll prob have an expensive pickup laying there when you sell said cheap bass. No one wants to pay anything for a cheap USED bass anyway. Or I could be talking about a narrow field of vision from my perspective. All the cheapo junk I've had never lasts no matter how many Fraley Lindenson pickups I launch at it. That's just me.


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