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Post subject: Looking for advice on a P-bass for recording
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:06 pm
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I think I've settled on a P-bass for my style of production, (rock, pop, country & folk).

Now I just need some input on which to get. While I can play bass, I am by no means a bass player, and am contemplating the '50s Classic (MIM?) and the '70s Classic (MIJ?).

Is there an advantage of country of origin or is that no longer an issue?

I like the look of both and wondering which would suit my genres best and which build quality is better?

Thanks,
Ryan


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Post subject: Re: Looking for advice on a P-bass for recording
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:47 pm
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it's my understanding that MIJ models are superior, or at least are more desirable, than MIM models.

i believe that this holds true for all history of fender instruments going back to 1982 when the first MIJ instruments were made, including early squier models


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Post subject: Re: Looking for advice on a P-bass for recording
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:37 am
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I've heard it said many times, MIJ is a better bass. My advice always is, play every bas you can, when you find the right one you'll know it

The bass doesn't make the player, the player makes the bass.


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Post subject: Re: Looking for advice on a P-bass for recording
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:08 am
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Gotcha on the try them all approach, but im in a small town and it may not be an option unless they have them in the big city on my next trip. Which of these two for their tonal characteristics for the genres I mentioned?


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Post subject: Re: Looking for advice on a P-bass for recording
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:06 am
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While it may be worth the trip tp help with your buying decision, i think you'll find the two Precisions very similar. Something else that you may want to consider, http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifie ... 8000000000

lot of us here use Tech 21 products. Opens up a world of sound and power.


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Post subject: Re: Looking for advice on a P-bass for recording
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:08 pm
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I suspected they'd be somewhat similar. I may just have to cross my fingers and hope for a good one by ordering locally. Can I go really wrong by doing this? I get that I might find a definitive "best" if hand selecting, but can there actually duds that make it past QC?

As far as Tech 21, I use their products for guitarm and have suggested them to others for bass. I currently use IK's Ampeg sims, so would the VT Bass be anything above what I currently have? I do notice the difference when plugging in DI guitar vs using their products, even if it's just clean. I assume the same might be true for bass.


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Post subject: Re: Looking for advice on a P-bass for recording
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:14 pm
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Starting at the end and working back. Your experience with DI's will give you a definite advantage in finding your sound. As far as other devices you mentioned, I'm really not familiar with them, feel free to jump in any time people.

Addressing the QA issue, it's pretty much a crapshoot that you'll get what you're expecting. I got a Strat for Christmas (thank you Wifey) from Sweetwater.com, it came in perfect, even had a good set-up. Some others here have had real good luck with them too. I hate to influence you about ordering locally, I'm very pessimistic as of late. Must be old age and the fact that, QA is a thing of the past.

All told, I think you'll do O.K., let us know, good luck.


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Post subject: Re: Looking for advice on a P-bass for recording
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:12 pm
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Lol. Not really starting backwards... I owned a godin active 5 string that someone really liked and I wasn't crazy about, so sold it on a whim. Never did like recording it.

Now I'd like to find a plug n play bass that just sounds and plays well. No fuss, no muss type o' deal.

I went to my local shop and they had a copperburst jazz standard that was nice but only had a Yamaha precision to compare it with and which was no comparison at all. I liked the jazz, but think I'll like the beefy neck better and that pbass might be a better fit with my gengres although they'd both work. I wasn't sold on the thin neck of the jazz, but perhaps I'd be won over if I a/b'd against a fender p. Still all up in the air.

So as far as QA, aside from a pisspoor setup, what kinda reports have you heard about dissatisfaction at this fender price range (classic series)?

Cheers,
Ryan


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Post subject: Re: Looking for advice on a P-bass for recording
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:55 pm
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ryguy76 wrote:
I think I've settled on a P-bass for my style of production, (rock, pop, country & folk).

Now I just need some input on which to get. While I can play bass, I am by no means a bass player, and am contemplating the '50s Classic (MIM?) and the '70s Classic (MIJ?).

Is there an advantage of country of origin or is that no longer an issue?

I like the look of both and wondering which would suit my genres best and which build quality is better?

Thanks,
Ryan


Hi Ryan & welcome to the forum!

If you are getting a bass for recording in my opinion the better choice is a MIM Fender 50's P-Bass or even a MIM Standard. The reason why is simple. Electronics.

The MIM Fenders have better stock electronics. Nobody that knows what they are talking about could possibly take exception to that statement.

Other than the person playing it, nothing else impacts the tone of an electric bass more than the electronics and the strings. The tone woods, the hardware and finish are all important to the overall quality of an instrument and yes these factors do have some impact upon tone, but not as much as the electronics and strings. You can have the best tone wood, finish and hardware in the world but if the electronics are second rate and the strings are wrong for the tone you want then it is not going to sound like you would expect.

The only mod I suggest to a MIM Standard P-Bass is a pickup upgrade to the USA Original Vintage Pickup which is stock in the USA 62 RI and some Fender Custom Shop instrument.

The Fender Mexican P-Bass you select does not have to be brand new! In fact, something like a 2003 to 2009 model actually might have better body wood than a brand new one. Right now there are lots of bargains around on used Mexican Fender basses.

The Japanese Fenders are primarily notable for quality tone woods and craftsmanship. However, the Japanese electronics in particular and the Japanese hardware to a more limited extent will be inferior to Fender's Mexican basses. The Japanese instruments at one time had an edge in finishing, but the finishes have become a toss-up between Mexico and Japan. In fact some basses (such as Highway One models) marked USA are actually painted in Mexico!

You made a good choice in selecting a P-Bass for production work. I prefer a P-Bass for recording due the inherent RFI (hum/buzz/noise) issues with a stock passive Jazz. This issue becomes especially apparent when soloing the neck pickup on a Jazz when trying to emulate the sound of a P-Bass. (The Fender P-Bass is the most recorded bass in all of recorded music history for a reason and many studios actually have a house P-Bass they provide to players who show up with a Jazz.)

If recording I recommend some sort of direct device such as the previously mentioned Tech 21 Sans Amp. Plug the bass into the Sans Amp, run a direct feed to the mixer from the Sans Amp on one track. Then patch out from the Sans Amp to a decent bass amp and mike the amp's speaker onto a separate track from the direct feed track and record both tracks simultaneously. When mixing you can use one or the other, or as is often the case you will find that a mixture of both tracks will give the best tone in the final mix.

Flatwound strings usually are the better string choice for recording due to string noise (finger squeak) reduction except for the most aggressive type of rock or fusion slap style play that obviously will always require steel rounds.

The reason to play before you buy is because there are many variables in a regular production model Fender P-Bass. This holds true no matter whether it is USA, Mexican, Japanese or Chinese. Once you get to the Custom Shop level you can order blind with confidence that the instrument will be superior in every regard because practically every variable that can negatively impact a regular production instrument is minimized in a Custom Shop instrument.

I live in a small town too. I would road-trip to the nearest big city with a couple of big box stores to find many Fender P-Basses to try out.


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Post subject: Re: Looking for advice on a P-bass for recording
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:19 pm
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BrotherDave,

I'm very appreciative of your in depth reply. You've made a lot of great points on things I had mixed feelings on and things I hadn't even thought of. The noise issue on the jazz bass is something I hadn't even thought about but one of those "now that you mention it..." type things. Nice.

I showed some restraint waiting for a p bass to try before I acted on the jazz bass locally. I really liked the copperburst, never had seen that before. The owner said he'd see if he could get a p bass in the same color, but it would be a $@!& in the dark due to its limited run.

Is there any difference in the electronics when dealing with the mim standard vs 50's? Would you still suggest the upgraded p'ups if I went with the 50's?

Well I guess a road trip may be in order...

Suggestions for flat wounds?

Thanks again!

Ryan


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Post subject: Re: Looking for advice on a P-bass for recording
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:32 am
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Hey Ryan,

Let me give you my two cents based on the fact that I'm a Telecaster player first, a bass player a weak second. I take about 99% of my advice on bass guitars from Brother Dave. I'd take anything Dave tells you to the bank - I do, and I'm very happy with the advice I've received from him.

1st - the Mexican vs Japan vs whatever... my Telecasters range from Custom Shop to American to Mexican to Japanese, and I think what Dave says about the electronics on the Japanese models is spot on. My Japanese Telecasters are works of art, but their electronics just always seem to need just a bit "extra". They are not bad, but my American and newer Mexican Telecasters sound better.

My primary bass guitars are exactly what Bro Dave recommends - I have 2 standard Mexican P-Bass and 2 Mexican '50's P-Bass guitars. I don't have a Japanese P-Bass to compare, but I do know that my Mexican models are far better bass guitars than I am a bass guitar player.

Here's some links to MIM Copperburst P-Bass on eBay. All have 14-30 day return policies, so you can give them a good once-over when you get them delivered.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Fender-Stan ... 4cf71e33a0

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fender-Standard ... 3a71ce5776

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fender-Standard ... 35b50aac62

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fender-Standard ... 256f6c2260

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fender-Standard ... 3a71cdff5c

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fender-Special- ... 1c2368a57d

There's at least a half dozen more listed...


Here's a '50s P-Bass - there are a lot more on eBay with 14-30 day returns as well:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fender-50s-Prec ... 27c41200a4

I have a copperburst P-Bass and not only does it sound good, the copperburst is pretty nice to look at. Same w/ my '50s - I have one in honey blonde and the other is fiesta red. They are very nice playing and looking bass guitars.

If I could only have one of them, I'd keep my '50s P-Bass in fiesta red. It's just a super sweet playing and looking bass guitar.

Anyway - that's my ramblings from a Telecaster and P-Bass player.

Let us know what you decide to do!

RickyD

_________________
Old age and treachery will win every time over youth and enthusiasm.

"You can never have too many Tele's." A quote from my Sweetwater Sales Engineer


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Post subject: Re: Looking for advice on a P-bass for recording
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:40 am
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Have you considered any American series Precisions? Or are the MIM, MIJ your only interests?


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Post subject: Re: Looking for advice on a P-bass for recording
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:56 am
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Ricky,

Thanks for your input as well. I figured that Dave's advice was rock solid but the confirmation is nice to hear.

I appreciate to links, but am weary of buying like this. Anyone have any issues from ebay purchases of instruments? The sellers seem reputable although.

Is the fiesta red more like an orange as it appears in photos?

I haven't considered American just because of the pricing difference. I think that I can get a MIM to do the job I need it for at half the cost. Can you talk about the necks on the standard vs the 50's?

Cheers,
Ryan


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Post subject: Re: Looking for advice on a P-bass for recording
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:37 am
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ryguy76 wrote:
Ricky,

...I appreciate to links, but am weary of buying like this. Anyone have any issues from ebay purchases of instruments? The sellers seem reputable although.

...Is the fiesta red more like an orange as it appears in photos?

...I haven't considered American just because of the pricing difference. I think that I can get a MIM to do the job I need it for at half the cost. Can you talk about the necks on the standard vs the 50's?

Cheers,
Ryan


There of course have been issues with buying online from eBay, especially on used instruments. Many posts here regard used instruments on eBay and Craigslist. "Is this genuine?" "Is this worth it?" Those are some of the type questions asked. But the most frequent question is, "I bought this on eBay and something isn't quite right, what do you think?" Of course it is too late by then as the buyer already has the instrument. The disadvantages of buying on eBay are multiple. Seldom do you have any prepaid shipping return privileges, so you wind up eating shipping both ways if they offer a refund or exchange for something that isn't right. The eBay seller may expect YOU to deal with the shipping company for shipping damage. Then of course there are slow shipping sellers, sellers who sell items they don't actually have in stock and sometimes even outright fraud. Many legitimate dealers, especially online ones like Music123 and Carvin, also do direct eBay sales. However the prices are practically identical to their own website and sometimes these sites have special deals and sales and offer free shipping and customer satisfaction guarantees on their website that don't apply to eBay sales. Of course there are bargains galore on eBay and Craigslist but the trick is to separate the bad from the good and that is hard to do when all you have to go on is some blurry photos and the seller's word. You really can not put a price upon the "service after the sale" that a brick and mortar local dealer can offer. When buying new I suggest trying to buy from the local dealer whenever possible. When you need service, setups, etc you will be glad you did because they may give you a break. Also the dealer is your first point of contact for any warranty issue.

I'd say Fiesta Red is more of a soft tangerine color. Sometimes it looks more pinkish than others and the white pickguard usually used on Fiesta Red bodies tends to make it look even pinker. Due to light exposure over years and years more pinking up is evident on vintage instruments and duplicated on some Custom Shop recreations. It isn't Competition Orange, but it isn't really Red either. It lives in between and I consider it more tangerine than red. Fiesta Red's formula is actually a mix of red and white.

For recording I prefer a rosewood fretboard. Rosewood sounds slightly mellower and somewhat less clanky however it also has just a tad less sustain and brightness. The 50's has a maple fretboard and the Standard comes in both maple and rosewood fretboards. The Standard has the modern C-shaped neck which is a bit thinner in profile than the vintage C neck. The Standard has a 1.625" nut width and a modern 9.5 inch radius. The 50's has more neck thickness with the late 50's C-shape which is chunkier/beefier than the modern profile. It is a tad wider with the nut measuring 1.75" but more noticeable to me in use is the sharper curve to the 7.25" neck radius.

You mentioned you were looking for specific string recommendations. Part of that depends upon your style of play. Will you pick or pluck? Another part of the equation is who do you want it to sound like? Sometimes you can find out exactly what string set is used by the famous player whose tone you'd like to find. For example, if you are looking for a Duck Dunn/James Jamerson type thud then Labella's 760M is the set they use/used on all their electric bass recordings. The GHS 3050 REGULAR comes very close also to that tone for less money. Many recording bassists use Thomastik-Infeld JF344 Jazz Flats because they offer the reduced finger noise of a flat set while retaining more brightness and much more sustain than traditional flats and sound better with a pick. Changing to a different string set will necessitate a setup due the differing tensions and string diameters. You can't just throw a set of flats on without some adjustments.


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Post subject: Re: Looking for advice on a P-bass for recording
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:27 am
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Ya, I am much more comfortable with brick and mortar, or big box online if need be.

I am starting to think that the standard might be what I end up with, but I discussed with my wife last night about the potential for a buying trip. I threw the clothes shopping in for her to get immediate buy-in... she went for it. classic.

The radius and width of the 50's might be too chunky for me, but I'll know when I try I suppose.

My thoughts on fretboard was going to be maple, as I have never owned a maple board with the several guitars I have/had. But, I'll decide that upon playing both I guess too.

As for strings, I'll most likely stay with the gauges that are on it to avoid the need for a new setup outta the gates. Just swap out the factory ones.


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