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Post subject: Found a used P for sale.
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:35 pm
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I recently came across a 1961 Precision for sale and would like some advice. It appears to be mostly original except it was refinned natural(originally burst) many years ago and worn off the body in the normal places. The neck was clear-coated over about the same time. Original tort guard, p-up, etc. Neck is straight and very little fret wear, evidentally strung with flats all it's life. Suprisingly light, plays like butter and sounds great! Missing covers and original case, but the tuners, bridge, "hootananny" button are original.

Now for my question, what should I be looking out for and is there a ballpark price??? Thanks!


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Post subject: Re: Found a used P for sale.
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:36 pm
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Location: Albemarle, NC
Pity about the refinish. It is a Player Class instrument. If possible inspect the usual places of interest. These include inspecting solder joints for originality, pot codes, base of the neck for the date marks, original cap and all that stuff. The usual things. Check the back of the pickguard for factory marks. The back of the pickups for marks like dates and such.

As for a value range, first the usual caution that I'm talking about prices around here in the Carolinas of the southeastern USA. This instrument will bring slightly more in a music center like Nashville, NYC or LA and more still in Europe or Asia. Any vintage instrument is only worth what someone is willing to pay. The vintage market went stagnant about 4 or 5 years ago, then lost ground for about 18 months and has been coming back gradually over the past year or so. At this time for an incomplete player class instrument without original case in fair condition $4,000 would be a reasonable final sale price in a private party sale. In better condition more of course. Dealers might ask $5,000 to $5,500, then take $4,700...but they will only offer something like $2500 at the most to buy it outright. If the pickup or any other parts turn out to be non original you would have to cut that price much more. Deduct up to $900 if the pickups are not original for example. In comparison, an all original complete Collector Class '61 P-Bass in excellent condition (9 out of 10) with original case also in excellent shape would bring up to $19,000 or even more. I saw such an instrument almost 3 years ago at a guitar show in Spartanburg, SC. A near mint Sunburst '62 and it had a $19,900 asking price.

If you can buy this Player Class '61 for something like $2,500 that is basically what a vintage dealer would pay for it around here if everything that is left is original and nothing has been monkeyed with.

Use caution in any vintage instrument purchase. Do not depend on serial number plates alone as they are easily faked and switched. A parts bass can have parts from several basses and some can be newer relic treatment parts. It is easy to get blinded by a pre-CBS serial. If a deal looks too good to be true, it probably is. To quote a famous movie line, "There are vultures everywhere. Everywhere I tell you!"


Last edited by brotherdave on Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Found a used P for sale.
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:35 am
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Thanks Brotherdave! The seller is reputable(I have dealt with him for nearly 20 years), and claims it has been around their local area for many years so I'm fairly confident it is as represented. Part of the appeal is that it is a player instrument, which is the only way I could even remotely consider it.

One more question, would a proper refin be worth the expense?

Again, thanks for the info!!!


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Post subject: Re: Found a used P for sale.
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:52 am
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Amateur natural refinishes are often seen. They are not uncommon at all on any vintage, even 80's & 90's. Fortunately they are pretty easy to refinish properly since they are usually pretty thin. Since it is already refinished you certainly will not lose any value or do any harm when you decide to refinish it properly.

If you are keeping it for your own use and enjoyment and you know that refinishing it would add to the enjoyment for you, then a proper refinish will be worth it. The obvious choice with the tortoise guard is a nitro sunburst refinish to restore it as close to original as possible. Of course if you ever do sell it you have to disclose the refinish up front, even if it is as close to a factory job as you are likely to ever see. The refinish will be obvious to appraisers anyway. I would not get get anything done so far as relic treatment options beyond perhaps some age tint tweaking of the paints. I like them to look like they came out of a time machine myself. Why not have them look as good as possible?

While refinishing to make it look just like it did in '61/'62 will add to the value, it probably will not equal a value increase sufficient to cover the entire cost of the refinish from any qualified and experienced vintage restoration service. A sunburst job usually costs a bit extra. Since this is a pre-CBS bass you need to use someone who has experience refinishing with the same materials in the same method as the original year. This absolutely is not a candidate for a bargain shoot at Bob's Auto Body Shop across town. You already have that. If you can't afford a proper refinish immediately, save up for it.

Two names I know that I personally can suggest to consult with are Gord Miller in Canada http://gmvintagerestorations.com/index.htmand Curtis Novak in North Carolina http://www.curtisnovak.com/restorations/index.shtml. These are among the best vintage refinish gurus for player class vintage instruments on the continent and I've seen work done by both, however I have never seen a Novak sunburst in person, but his solid colors I've seen are on the money. I can vouch for the Gord Miller sunburst though.

Other more economical solutions are out there of course, but refinishing a genuine Pre-CBS instrument is not the time nor place to cheap out. Either of the people I suggest talking with have a reputation of getting it right, both do the work themselves and both are well known as top refinish services for vintage player class instruments.

Since the neck is fine you'd only need to ship them the bare body, retaining everything else which will keep shipping and labor to a minimum. Do not alter the current finish in any way before shipping it as you can do more harm than good. Then be patient as you can expect quite a turn around time. Be sure to inquire about the turn around time in advance and to adequately insure the shipment.


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Post subject: Re: Found a used P for sale.
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:29 pm
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Thanks again, you have given me a lot to think about. The biggest drawback is I will need to part with a couple of my best basses to make this happen and I don't know if I'm willing to let go of them..... however this one is a really nice player and would be a joy to own.


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Post subject: Re: Found a used P for sale.
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:45 am
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Location: In the pocket north of Washington D.C.
I own a 1960 Precision bass and even through it is a refinished player's grade bass, I enjoy playing it more and more as the years go by.

You can always get another new bass. The old ones are hard to find at affordable prices.

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