It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:42 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Early 70's P Bass ID
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:29 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:46 am
Posts: 8
I purchased what I thought was a '73 P Bass about 7 years back at an auction. It was in like new condition. I recently had someone interested in buying it so I removed the neck and pickguard to check out the pots and the pickups. The stamp on the neck is 5 JAN 72 P, the body looks like a 72. It's sunburst with a black pickguard and the thumb rest on the G string side. The serial number on the neck plate is 413XXX. The pots are '73 (137-7342 &3). The pickups are black and have no markings. There were no signs of the bass ever being previously disassembled. The workmanship all looks original but the whole thing just doesn't seem to add up. Can anyone shed some light on this??


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Early 70's P Bass ID
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:12 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:34 pm
Posts: 10760
Location: Athens, Greece
Pics?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Early 70's P Bass ID
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:14 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Albemarle, NC
plastic cloud wrote:
I purchased what I thought was a '73 P Bass about 7 years back at an auction. It was in like new condition. I recently had someone interested in buying it so I removed the neck and pickguard to check out the pots and the pickups. The stamp on the neck is 5 JAN 72 P, the body looks like a 72. It's sunburst with a black pickguard and the thumb rest on the G string side. The serial number on the neck plate is 413XXX. The pots are '73 (137-7342 &3). The pickups are black and have no markings. There were no signs of the bass ever being previously disassembled. The workmanship all looks original but the whole thing just doesn't seem to add up. Can anyone shed some light on this??


Welcome to the forum. The first clue that something was not quite kosher came seven years ago when you bought a 32 year old 1973 P-Bass in "LIKE NEW" condition at an auction. Something was almost certainly suspect about that in the first place.

As to the discrepancies. The pots and serial are a reasonably good match. The pots date to the 42nd and 43rd weeks of 1973, late in the calendar year. It is sort of unusual that they don't match down to the lot week. Most do, but not always. The serial plate is a 1974 plate, which more often than not means it was assembled after July 1, 1974 but before June 30, 1975. CBS was still buying pots in large quantities then, not whole boxcars though like in 1966 but still fairly large quantities, so it is not unusual at all to see 6 month to 10 month lags before they went into a guitar in 74. So the pots and serial plate are a reasonable match. What I can not explain is why a neck would have laid around for 2.5 years. But you see all kinds of stuff that doesn't make rational sense and some of it is strictly legit and some of it isn't. Are there any numbers or stickers in the neck pocket? Serials are NOT the final word by any means but usually taken at their face value until you get other hallmarks. In this case I'd say you have a 72 neck on a 74 body until proven otherwise.

I think the body and serial may belong together but not sure about the neck. So that is a maybe or a maybe not. A maybe from me and $4.50 will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

You were pretty close in your guess of 1973 because if you average 72 and 74 together and you indeed get 73, so in a way you were correct all along!

Photos might clear some of this up. I especially would like to see that neck stamp. Nice big clear photos of Fender bass neck stampings, neck pocket marks on Fender bass bodies and decal headstock closeups are like guitar porn to several of us here!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Early 70's P Bass ID
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:31 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:46 am
Posts: 8
Thanks for the response. This is my first post on this forum. I do have some good pics but I don't know how to post them. Can anyone help?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Early 70's P Bass ID
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:52 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Albemarle, NC
Upload them to a free photo host like photobucket.com and then start a post here. When ready to insert the image in the Fender Forum post, click the "Img" button at the top of the Fender Forum post a reply window, then copy and paste the DIRECT LINK to the image on the free photo host where the cursor lands. Then move the cursor beyond the closing image tag and proceed typing your post or go ahead and click PREVIEW to make sure the image is displayed correctly. When complete with your post and it is previewing correctly, just hit submit. I also have instructions posted about this on my website and it is the last section of the webpage HERE: http://brotherdave.com/add_comm.htm


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Early 70's P Bass ID
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:51 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:46 am
Posts: 8
Thanks for the instructions to download my pics, I'll get started on that. I mentioned buying this bass at an country auction barn in Blackstock On. There were 7 guitars that came from a storage auction. Apparently the owner couldn't be located and he wasn't paying the rentals so they ended up sold. Interesting because I noted all the guitars and serial #s. There was a '77 Les Paul Custon, a 1958 ES335, a 1966 SG, a 1967 ES335. a Telecaster Squire, A 1983 Stratocaster, and the Precision that I bought. Someone lost a very nice collection of guitars. It was kind of funny because the auctioneer and owner of the auction barn had no idea of the value. He had them all out on tables where they were being man handled and played with by kids and farmers. I was having a fit. A once in a lifetime experience.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Early 70's P Bass ID
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:01 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:46 am
Posts: 8
Some pics

Image

Image

[imghttp://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s518/plasticcloud/2012_021672bass0001.jpg][/img]

Image

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Early 70's P Bass ID
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:03 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:46 am
Posts: 8
Some more

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Early 70's P Bass ID
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:44 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:44 am
Posts: 78
Location: malaga Spain
Hi, Scuse me for being a bit thick but why has the neck got 2 truss rod adjusters ? or is the top one a blank ? I can`t tell by the photo, And the logo looks a bit too pristine.... unless this bass did not come out of its case/bag for 40 years ? if Brother Dave concludes that this is the genuine article ...you really have fallen on your feet !!! Best Wishes Pete Bass


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Early 70's P Bass ID
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:19 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:46 am
Posts: 8
There is just the one truss rod adjustment. That's a blank on the top of the neck. It doesn't look like this bass was ever played much. It's been in the case sinse I bought it. I have played it at home and sounds great compared to my 92 USA Precison and my 92 USA Jazz. Brian


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Early 70's P Bass ID
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:23 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:43 pm
Posts: 670
Looks like my '75 when I first bought it used in '78. It's definitely a genuine road worn now. :lol:

A couple of differences though.
Mine has the thumb rest above the "E" string.
Also the face of the head on mine isn't the same color. I know that age has changed it, but I don't ever recall it looking as light as the one in your pics. Even when I first bought it. I'm pretty sure it's stained.
Might be due to the basses being different model years?

Image Image

_________________
2012 American Standard Precision V - Candy Cola Red
2012 Squier Vintage Modified Jazz V - Surf Green
2011 FCS Custom Classic Special Jazz Bass V - Violin Burst
1996 MIM Stratocaster HSS - Black
1975 Precision Bass - 3 Tone Sunburst


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Early 70's P Bass ID
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:28 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:43 pm
Posts: 670
I just noticed something else while comparing pictures. Look at the bridge. Your's is much closer to the edge/end of the bass than mine.
I don't know if that means anything or not.

_________________
2012 American Standard Precision V - Candy Cola Red
2012 Squier Vintage Modified Jazz V - Surf Green
2011 FCS Custom Classic Special Jazz Bass V - Violin Burst
1996 MIM Stratocaster HSS - Black
1975 Precision Bass - 3 Tone Sunburst


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Early 70's P Bass ID
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:52 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:46 am
Posts: 8
Thanks, I appreciate your input. What I've noticed when doing some searches is that some 72's have the thumb rest below the G string and most of the 73's are above the E string. Can't say for sure if it's consistant or not because I'm basing that on what I've been able to find in pictures. Also, the headstock color will age if exposed to light over time. Can't say for sure if mine is lighter because it stayed in the case most of it's life.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Early 70's P Bass ID
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:31 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:43 pm
Posts: 670
If you look at the two pics I posted (sorry about the poor quality) you can see the edge of the headstock. It's not discolored like the face. The back isn't either. Both the edge and back of the headstock are as white as the neck itself.
I'm pretty sure the face of the headstock is not only discolored from age, but stained as well. The bass has been exposed alot over time, but I have always kept it in it's case when not being played.
I stoped using this bass as my main bass about 20 years ago and it has been stored in it's case in a bedroom closet. I do get it out and play it every now and then, but it doesn't leave the house. I take that back. I did take it out and use it a couple of times last year.
All this probably doesn't mean much when you consider they are different model years.

_________________
2012 American Standard Precision V - Candy Cola Red
2012 Squier Vintage Modified Jazz V - Surf Green
2011 FCS Custom Classic Special Jazz Bass V - Violin Burst
1996 MIM Stratocaster HSS - Black
1975 Precision Bass - 3 Tone Sunburst


Last edited by grho50 on Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Early 70's P Bass ID
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:38 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Albemarle, NC
It is a pity you could not have bought the entire lot!

Upon further review of this instrument serial it is possibly a '73. Serials started with 4 in up to three different years. Quoting from Fender's own list:
300,000s to 500,000s 1973
400,000s to 500,000s 1974 to 1975

If you will private message me the full serial I might can narrow it down more, but then again maybe I can't. I saw the sunburst with black pickguard and looked at the serial list and then saw the 4 in left column only the first time. Discounting the black pickguard, it could be a 73 model all around, as the 73 model was made as late as June 30th, 1974 but the ones made till then are considered '73 models none the less.

One issue for me is that from the hallmarks it is almost certainly either a Sunburst 73 or 74 model P-Bass. Yet it has a post-1973 black pickguard while it also has the pre-1974 finger-rest (tug-bar/thumb-rest) placement. I'm out of my comfort zone with that.

Someone here may know more about this, but the black pickguard looks out of place to me on a stock '73 Sunburst P-Bass. I've seen tortoise guards exclusively on '73 Sunburst P-Basses and white ones on all the other colors with the exceptions of the '73 Olympic White and Natural '73 Precisions which you usually see with a black topped b/w/b pickguard. It seems to me that black pickguards appeared first as stock issue on Sunburst P-Basses in the '74 model year. Anyone here know about that for sure?

I think that the finger-rest (tugbar) first moved to the E-string side becoming a thumb-rest on the 1974 model and not 1975. So if this is the original pickguard it might be a '73 model based on the rest placement. Whatever the specs were for a particular model, they were followed on each and every production line piece. I've been assured by people who worked at Fender Fullerton that, "the specs were the specs." (Actually it was more of a berating for insinuating otherwise about 82/83's.) So, for example if a tortoise guard was specified on the '73 Sunburst P-Bass they all would have gotten one and if the finger rest moved in '74 they all would have moved. There would have been no mish-mash/slap-dash. It could be a '73 custom order with a black guard or the more likely explanations would include a mid-model year spec change to a black pickguard on Sunburst at some point in the '73 model year or moving the rest during the '74 model year. However I do not know how to verify a mid year specification change in either year. I do know I was ordering custom color Fender instruments back then and the dealership was not given the option of picking a pickguard color, just the paint color. I know this for sure because I asked, and I asked more than once. An endorsing artist might have had the connections to get a custom guard color though, but not your typical dealer.

Was there anything either hand written or stamped on the underside of the pickups? If so, what did it say? Do they have gray bottoms? If something is there, a photo of the pickup bottoms would be nice if you disassemble again. Also I would like to see a closeup of the pickups installed but with the chrome pickup cover removed. Like the finish, the pickups look almost too new.

Questions aside, this instrument is in nothing short of astonishing condition. You are correct that it is near mint and is quite a find being one of the mintiest '73 or 74 P-Basses condition wise that I've seen in a great while. Like others have said, maybe the condition is almost too good. But if kept in the case almost perpetually in a smoke free and temperature controlled environment it is possible to look that fresh. A true closet classic! The decal is correct for the serial. Almost always there is noticeable yellowing of the thicker clear coat on the front of the headstock on CBS models of the day that appears totally absent here. The body's neck pocket marks and paint stick mark however look correct.

That neck stamping actually ends in "B" and not in "P" as this is just a lighter stamping on the right end with the "B" ghosting out. When I enlarged the photo I clearly can see the beginning of the bottom part of the loop in the "B" so that is also a correct stamping code used at Fender. (Actually this stamping is quite legible compared to some I've seen.) The "5" at the beginning of the neck stamping was actually the model designation for a P-Bass neck at one time and does not mean 5th of January. The "B" designates the nut width, which is the standard P-Bass neck with "A" being the Jazz width code.

The period between the neck date and the serial is quite a gap. But it looks all Fender to me from these photos. Having a vintage instrument authority examine it in person is the only way to know for sure if it is all original, especially the pot solder joints.

Keep it out of the light, especially direct sun, as much as possible. If it turns out to be all original, then I would never dream of gigging this outdoors or leaving it out of the case when not actually in use. Actually I personally wouldn't gig it at all. The finish condition is especially miraculous considering the fact that it was in a storage locker for who knows how long. That must have been a climate controlled bin.

We do know that if the solder joints at the pots are original factory joints with the pots dating to the weeks of October 15th and October 22nd 1973 it is impossible that the body was assembled before early November '73. Pots would take a week or two to even arrive as shipping was not as sophisticated then as now. Even if the pot inventory was remarkably tight, the very earliest it could have been made would be early November, '73. As long as the solder joints are factory it doesn't matter that the pot lot numbers do not match exactly as they are only 1 week off. So I'm not worried about the lot number mismatch.

Congrats on finding such a pristine CBS era bass that is at least near mint. If it is an all original collector class '73 or '74, one this nice is quite valuable and will certainly appreciate in value in the long run. You can go to gbase.com and see what vintage dealers' asking prices are for P-Basses of 73/74 vintage and few if any of them are in such nice condition as this one so look only at the nicest ones. Once you pick your jaw up off the floor, read on.

Even if you do not want to sell it, a trip to a reputable vintage instrument authority, usually that means a vintage dealer, is definitely in order here for a formal written appraisal to find out for sure what you have. They may even offer to buy it. I surely wouldn't sell it outright to them even if they do make an offer. You should always expect to pay for a written appraisal from a vintage instrument authority. Get their fee for the appraisal up-front so there will be no confusion about it as this fee varies greatly from dealer to dealer. Use that written appraisal for insurance purposes at once because you absolutely must add a rider specific to this instrument onto your fire/theft policy. Without a rider specifically insuring it for a set amount you can not expect it to be insured for it's actual value against fire/theft and an adjuster will lowball you like you would not believe on a claim. The appraisal is also useful for authentication of originality and as a reference figure if and when you want to sell it in a private sale down the road. Almost nothing ever sells at the appraisal value, even diamonds or real estate, but instead sells for a majority percentage of the appraisal value relative to current local market conditions. I'd insure it for the appraisal value to allow for appreciation over a period of years. An additional rider to an existing fire/theft policy is very affordable and strongly advised on all collectible class instruments. Otherwise you are at the adjuster's mercy.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: