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Post subject: Re: Brad and oxfan????
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:59 pm
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First, I hate the "title" of this particular thread. There should be no us vs. them. We're all here for sharing, learning, and enjoyment.

Truthfully, the primary reason that I've been hanging out here is BECAUSE of the fun and craziness. I’m a beginner and have nothing but questions & opinions to offer, so being able to participate via humor on a thread makes it less intimidating for me to post. Because of the camaraderie created by the humor, I feel safe to post questions that I think might be dumb newbie questions.

And, for me, as pbassbob said. “the "antics" serve quite effectively as a "relief valve" of sorts, where a comedic bout of "can you top this" offsets a bad day or a bad week in a high stress occupation”. When NICP went quiet for a while, I really missed the outlet, and eventually would most likely stopped checking in here. I went to the Ibanez forum to find out about the Ibanez bass I have. I checked in for a couple of weeks and posted my “Why do you play bass” question there and got ONE response, and 4 “views”. That forum is deader than a doornail. Which means it’s not a particularly effective means of connecting with their customers.

My perception of the derailing is that the thread is already pretty much done, and the question(s) have been answered, OR the thread was originated by an NICP member, and so was fair game. And I’ve seen several threads where an NICP member has kept re-railing the topic.

Regarding the signature line – I believe most of the NICP members allow pm’s, so if anyone had a question, they could have sent a pm at any time.

Perhaps there should be a “professional” area on the forum, and maybe that should be by invitation only. I’m not too keen on that, since as a beginner, I would want to hang out there to see what I could learn, and would undoubtedly want to post beginner questions.

Brad, I was very surprised that you used a public thread to get in touch with Oxfan. I would have expected that you would have done a pm. Perhaps you did, and Oxfan wasn’t able to respond. I hear that being a forum moderator ranks near the top of the list of thankless jobs, so I’m sure this has been one of those things euphemistically known as ”a challenge”.

As Stroker Vance said, “looks like no more NICP”. Sad day.

Rock on!

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Post subject: Re: Brad and oxfan????
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:27 pm
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What is the NICP? New Insane Clown Posse. It is not, nor has it ever been, a political organization. Whoever said NICP has a political agenda is committing slander. NICP is simply a bunch of Fender forum regulars who all became friends on this forum and the friendship in many cases extended outside the forum into the real world with phone calls, actual real world meetings, gifts exchanged by mail and birthday greetings. The gift could be some muting foam, a photo, a pick. Just people being nice to each other. Refreshing isn't it?

In my opinion there actually is no need to create any special room or thread on the Fender Forum for the NICP. We already have our own Facebook group to stay in touch and we can hang out at Sabre Lane's Conservatory forum. I'm sure that will make the detractors who think we are some sort of political extremist ninja assassins happiest and if you are out to make them happy then that is what should do it.

The ONLY membership requirement to be in NICP is to ask to join. Then you are vetted based on your individual attributes and commitment to the cause of betterment of bass and having fun while doing it. NICP members come from the world, not just North America. We are all united in love of bass and sharing of knowledge. We also have no patience with someone smacking down a newbie for asking a stupid question because there are no stupid questions, except the question unasked. Such may not exactly be the case with the detractors who have a myopic, intolerant and dictatorial view that the Fender forum doesn't need NICP or it's members around.

Helping people more than the clown stuff (which I admit was not exactly "mature behavior" much of the time) is what appealed to me. Here is why. I started out SELF TAUGHT. I had NOBODY to teach me! There was no internet then. The only computer I saw was on Star Trek. I had no money to pay an instructor, even if in 1968 there had been a bass instructor in my small Northeast Georgia community which there wasn't. We are talking "Deliverance" Northeast Ga here, which actually filmed nearby where I grew up about 3 miles away at Tallulah Gorge. If I had wanted to play banjo I could have found several instructors. Even though I had no real world instructor I did get some help from some very special people, one was Ralph Raper at Ralph's Radio Music of Demorest, GA, the Fender dealer in my home county and one of the few Fender dealers at that time in Georgia north of Atlanta. I could have went to Rhythm City in Atlanta but Ralph's was way closer. So I bought my first bass, a 1968 Telecaster and first bass amp, an early 60's Gibson Atlas, at Ralph's. Then bought my second bass a 1971 Jazz and second rig which was a new Ampeg SVT with two 2x15 cabs at Ralph's. Eventually I wound up working at Ralph's in the guitar section of the store selling guitars and amps. Ralph and his family helped me a lot and always encouraged me. They were very nice people. If my band had a gig and needed something, Ralph would "loan" it to me. Most frequently he loaned us PA gear. Ralph knew I was struggling with getting better as a player after using Mel-Bay books so he suggested I try Carol Kaye's bass method book so I bought it but took a year to get started on it and then realized I should have started it sooner because finally I felt I was getting somewhere. I still buy Carol Kaye tutors and DVD's today. If it hadn't been for Ralph, his wife Bernice and son Frank who always helped me out with strings and books and advice and ENCOURAGEMENT then I would have never learned to actually play and would be a root/fifth player till this day.

About five years ago I decided it was MY TURN to help other people and that is why I started my own bass oriented website. My site's goal is to help bassists of all levels out, but primarily it is newbies and younger players who will use that information. My bass site is a 100% money pit as I don't sell ads, I don't charge anything to anyone. Everyone who has written me through the site asking a question has gotten an answer to the best of my knowledge even if it was an, "I don't know." These emails come from all over the world.

The principles of sharing information, encouragement and genuine friendship in the NICP seemed like a good fit with my goals of helping people out and networking with similarly minded bassists who have lots to offer others.

The people that have complained must be respected and I harbor no grudge but apparently they have misinformed and misguided folks about NICP. I feel like they just didn't get the whole camaraderie thing, or perhaps felt left out, or jumped to way too many conclusions without having any actual information when all they had to do was ask!

I thought the Fender forum was more interesting with the NICP around and gave it more personality. But opinions are like noses, everyone has one and everyone is entitled to have one.

The Fender bass forums to me were much friendlier than the abusive behavior that is rampant on other forums. But at least on the other forums they don't stab you in the back since they attack you right to your face. That at least makes it a fair fight and you know where people are coming from. I would never have suspected some of these people of stabbing me and my good friends in the back, but they sure did.


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Post subject: Re: Brad and oxfan????
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:25 am
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I'll throw in my miserable two cents, since that's all I can afford to pay these days.

As a newcomer to the forums here, I took a look around and studied before starting to post. Every board has its personality and its own character [along with the characters too]. At first, I wasn't sure what to make of all the clown imagery or the oft repeated acronym of NICP, but I eventually figured out that those into the NICP were themselves the "characters" present on every board - though I never saw any maliciousness unlike other places, Some of the clown imagery was a bit weird, but I don't wake up at night having had nightmares of clowns chasing me wielding chain saws, all while yelling - "Time for Surgery!"

The inside references and jokes don't bother me and as long as everyone is civil, helpful, and good natured, it all is fine. I hope people like brotherdave stay - he has a wealth of knowledge and I am just starting up after a hiatus of many years.

This is a good place that isn't overrun by arrogant know-it-alls and abusive members. I enjoy reading and learning here.


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Post subject: Re: Brad and oxfan????
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:12 am
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slidewaysracing wrote:
Truthfully, the primary reason that I've been hanging out here is BECAUSE of the fun and craziness. I’m a beginner and have nothing but questions & opinions to offer, so being able to participate via humor on a thread makes it less intimidating for me to post. Because of the camaraderie created by the humor, I feel safe to post questions that I think might be dumb newbie questions.

...Regarding the signature line – I believe most of the NICP members allow pm’s, so if anyone had a question, they could have sent a pm at any time.



brotherdave wrote:
The principles of sharing information, encouragement and genuine friendship in the NICP seemed like a good fit with my goals of helping people out and networking with similarly minded bassists who have lots to offer others....

...I thought the Fender forum was more interesting with the NICP around and gave it more personality. But opinions are like noses, everyone has one and everyone is entitled to have one.

...But at least on the other forums they don't stab you in the back since they attack you right to your face. That at least makes it a fair fight and you know where people are coming from. I would never have suspected some of these people of stabbing me and my good friends in the back, but they sure did.


i'm certain there's plenty of folks reading (and appreciating) our posts with a little smile on their faces, most of them do not reply or getting involved for what reasons ever. i'm very proud to be a part of the fender forum, even more to be well accepted and respected... the less i'm pleased to be censored and back-stabbed by some rather dried out and bitter co-members who want to bend rules onto their proper point of view and going to whine at brad's or start posting being heavily unpleased and bothered about.
i don't feel like replying to them (the more they never contacted us), seeing their amount of posts it looks like if they were hanging in the net for years and years and babying their image as gear-nerds; do they ever hit stages or real life? in my experience folks like that only wait for a chance to dispute and try to get through on their "importance" to harass and/or ban others. i agree with brad that freedom in the forums has to be limited, on the other hand a forum like fender's and the nature of its members has to allow a little excursion onto the second face of rock-musicians; we, the true adepts dare to step over the line from time to time but are reasonable enough to come back to daily business. so what the heck is wrong with that?
-getting a cage of our own at ff does not fit the liberal meaning of the NICP, it's all or nothing!
i want to keep the go in the ff still, it's quite interesting to follow the NICP-thing and brad is doing a good moderator job too... thank you!

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Post subject: Re: Brad and oxfan????
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:58 pm
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I've been away from the forum for a while, caught up in lots of other stuff about which most of you already know, and I'm off abroad at the end of the week, but I thought I should stop by briefly to say "Amen!" to Sailor Girl's and Brother Dave's eloquent posts.

NICP is perfectly harmless fun; people get hot under the collar because they see something going on which they think is not accessible to them - it is of course: they'd have only to join in with the spirit of the thing, as I did - and a kind of playground jealousy develops.

Now, it's not my place to pontificate on the rights and wrongs of this, and the moderators' decision is final, as is right in all forums, but it does seem sad to me if some of the best and most consistently musical advice is lost to Fender's official forum because of this. This forum is a credit to Fender as a brand; I know of no other instrument brand forum (unless it's TDPRI, which is axiomatically about Fender guitars anyway :wink: ) which has so much to offer both the beginner and the experienced musician, and such a consistently high standard of both advice and discussion, AND etiquette. NICP may be silly - that's its function - but it is never trollish nor vindictive, and it never seeks, unlike all too many on forums worldwide, to humiliate or bully either the "newb" (horrible term) or the casual poster.

Please, Brad and other moderators, consider the excellent and musicianly advice offered by people like Brother Dave and Oxfan, before taking any action which you, and more importantly, the less experienced players who come here for advice and mentoring, may regret. Forgive us NICP members if sometimes we've been a little over-exuberant - it's a rock thing, isn't it? - because we do care. We deeply appreciate the Fender instruments we use daily to play the music we love so much, and we, often because we have had to do it the hard way over many years ourselves, deeply care for the younger and less experienced players we try to help.

Bless you

NICP The Codger - from Dorset, UK


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Post subject: Re: Brad and oxfan????
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:06 am
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As my more seasoned and well-spoken compatriots have said so much, I have little to add. Mr. Traweek's open-mindedness is a welcome fresh breath to forum moderation. I'm not buttering up anyone. As a Navy Submariner, I don't play the $@! kissing game. I am simply giving credit where it is due. Our shenanigans do get a bit odd at times, but never in the spirit of hurtfulness or hate. Our first duty to ourselves has always been giving those new guys a leg up. A new guy that I was, and still am really. These gentlemen, and more recently ladies, are always there to jump on a question and give the info you need, and more. As is normal, I see the fact that we are being asked to tone down these things by a position of power instead of those who have the problem as a bit of an odd duck. Where was our chance to handle this at our level, before going to Dad about it? I may look at things odd thru my military eyes, but shouldn't we, as brothers and sisters of a common love (fender), try to keep these things at our level? I understand that some people have problems with our antics, I really do. If I am given the chance to explain myself or rectify something that was said that should not have been said, I will fix that situation.

Just my two shillings.

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Post subject: Re: Brad and oxfan????
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:10 am
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thebassopotomous wrote:
As my more seasoned and well-spoken compatriots have said so much, I have little to add. Mr. Traweek's open-mindedness is a welcome fresh breath to forum moderation. I'm not buttering up anyone. As a Navy Submariner, I don't play the $@! kissing game. I am simply giving credit where it is due. Our shenanigans do get a bit odd at times, but never in the spirit of hurtfulness or hate. Our first duty to ourselves has always been giving those new guys a leg up. A new guy that I was, and still am really. These gentlemen, and more recently ladies, are always there to jump on a question and give the info you need, and more. As is normal, I see the fact that we are being asked to tone down these things by a position of power instead of those who have the problem as a bit of an odd duck. Where was our chance to handle this at our level, before going to Dad about it? I may look at things odd thru my military eyes, but shouldn't we, as brothers and sisters of a common love (fender), try to keep these things at our level? I understand that some people have problems with our antics, I really do. If I am given the chance to explain myself or rectify something that was said that should not have been said, I will fix that situation.

Just my two shillings.


+1000 more shillings.


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Post subject: Re: Brad and oxfan????
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:33 am
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i'm gonna throw in my 2 cents, even though i'm late on the draw here, (i've been busy on other forums)

i was brand new first post and the guys from NICP embraced me, i was pretty quick to be added to the group, and now i've got a ton of friends and a GREAT source of knowledge for anything i want to know from bass stuff, learning and modifying, to life things like faith and other stuff.

i had no clue what NICP was then i asked and it all became clear LOL, i enjoyed the NICP random posts because most forums i belong to have a sub-forum somewhere for cheap posts, useless meaningless posts so that they don't conflict with other posts, even the christian forums i belong to have this, so i was a little bit saddened when there wasn't one of those here on fender.

but whatever, i may stay, but probably not, i'll probably just leave it alone as i had and focus on places where rude old guys don't ruin my day.

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Post subject: Re: Brad and oxfan????
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:36 am
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thebassopotomous wrote:
As my more seasoned and well-spoken compatriots have said so much, I have little to add. Mr. Traweek's open-mindedness is a welcome fresh breath to forum moderation. I'm not buttering up anyone. As a Navy Submariner, I don't play the $@! kissing game. I am simply giving credit where it is due. Our shenanigans do get a bit odd at times, but never in the spirit of hurtfulness or hate. Our first duty to ourselves has always been giving those new guys a leg up. A new guy that I was, and still am really. These gentlemen, and more recently ladies, are always there to jump on a question and give the info you need, and more. As is normal, I see the fact that we are being asked to tone down these things by a position of power instead of those who have the problem as a bit of an odd duck. Where was our chance to handle this at our level, before going to Dad about it? I may look at things odd thru my military eyes, but shouldn't we, as brothers and sisters of a common love (fender), try to keep these things at our level? I understand that some people have problems with our antics, I really do. If I am given the chance to explain myself or rectify something that was said that should not have been said, I will fix that situation.

Just my two shillings.



EXACTLY thanks for having the same thoughts as me :D

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Post subject: Re: Brad and oxfan????
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:41 am
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(Edited. This post is out of line. -Brad)

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Post subject: Re: Brad and oxfan????
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:22 pm
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With guys like this on the Fender Forums and like that other hamster who started all of it--- I really don't want to be a part of this anymore. Gentlemen it's been nice. See you much later. Do what you want with my posts or whatever. No need to post back to me. I won't be here to see it.

I will still enjoy all of my Fender equiptment but it will be a sad thought when I think about this site and the way some people are. I don't need it.


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Post subject: Re: Brad and oxfan????
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:32 pm
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ozrv wrote:
I told myself I wouldn't chime in as you were all justly put in your place but... I guess I just can't help myself... :roll: .. I find it extremely amusing how all you Bozo's try leaning on "giving the new guys" a leg up and "here to help the new people" and Blah Blah Blah.... When it was your blatant disregard and cryptic alienating bullsheit to "newbies" "young ones at that" that has you in this situation, when they clearly were trying very hard to reach out to you to become come part of your.... NMBC..... Ha ha... That's... No More Bozo's Club.... :lol: .."There you go"..... Try again..... :wink:


I do apologise if I offend anyone by pointing this out, but this is precisely what I meant when I said "trollish or vindictive" in my earlier post. If this kind of thing is acceptable, how is it that the NICP posts were unacceptable?

Mods?

Talking of mods, perhaps this thread ought to be locked. How is this spirit of crude provocation going to get anyone anywhere?


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Post subject: Re: Brad and oxfan????
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:47 pm
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PVTele wrote:
ozrv wrote:
I told myself I wouldn't chime in as you were all justly put in your place but... I guess I just can't help myself... :roll: .. I find it extremely amusing how all you Bozo's try leaning on "giving the new guys" a leg up and "here to help the new people" and Blah Blah Blah.... When it was your blatant disregard and cryptic alienating bullsheit to "newbies" "young ones at that" that has you in this situation, when they clearly were trying very hard to reach out to you to become come part of your.... NMBC..... Ha ha... That's... No More Bozo's Club.... :lol: .."There you go"..... Try again..... :wink:


I do apologise if I offend anyone by pointing this out, but this is precisely what I meant when I said "trollish or vindictive" in my earlier post. If this kind of thing is acceptable, how is it that the NICP posts were unacceptable?

Mods?

Talking of mods, perhaps this thread ought to be locked. How is this spirit of crude provocation going to get anyone anywhere?


pv, really not worth the shot to answer this one and to apologize; it's like explaining the desert to a fish: he wouldn't understand it! :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Brad and oxfan????
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:55 pm
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the chef! wrote:
PVTele wrote:
ozrv wrote:
I told myself I wouldn't chime in as you were all justly put in your place but... I guess I just can't help myself... :roll: .. I find it extremely amusing how all you Bozo's try leaning on "giving the new guys" a leg up and "here to help the new people" and Blah Blah Blah.... When it was your blatant disregard and cryptic alienating bullsheit to "newbies" "young ones at that" that has you in this situation, when they clearly were trying very hard to reach out to you to become come part of your.... NMBC..... Ha ha... That's... No More Bozo's Club.... :lol: .."There you go"..... Try again..... :wink:


I do apologise if I offend anyone by pointing this out, but this is precisely what I meant when I said "trollish or vindictive" in my earlier post. If this kind of thing is acceptable, how is it that the NICP posts were unacceptable?

Mods?

Talking of mods, perhaps this thread ought to be locked. How is this spirit of crude provocation going to get anyone anywhere?


pv, really not worth the shot to answer this one and to apologize; it's like explaining the desert to a fish: he wouldn't understand it! :wink:


Weeelll... one has to try, at least :?


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Post subject: Re: Brad and oxfan????
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:11 pm
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stroker vance wrote:
With guys like this on the Fender Forums and like that other hamster who started all of it--- I really don't want to be a part of this anymore. Gentlemen it's been nice. See you much later. Do what you want with my posts or whatever. No need to post back to me. I won't be here to see it.

I will still enjoy all of my Fender equiptment but it will be a sad thought when I think about this site and the way some people are. I don't need it.



Boo Hoo... :roll:

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