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Post subject: Do you drink the cool-aid of a 2-10 cabinet?
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:33 pm
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Do you use as a bass rig to play bass in a band with a bass guitar and said bass rig cabinet is a single cabinet with 2 ten inch speakers and that's the only cabinet you use? Please explain.


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Post subject: Re: Do you drink the cool-aid of a 2-10 cabinet?
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:31 am
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I know that you said 'cabinet', but Combo amp/speakers may fall into the same category - depending upon exactly what kind of answer you are after... your question is a little unclear.

In my case, I have a Bassman 250-210 Combo and a Rumble 350-210 Combo. Depending upon the size of the indoor room, I use one or the other alone or can use the line out to use them both. I also have a very heavy duty and heavily modified Sony subwoofer that can also be added to the second line out if additional low end is needed. I do not connect to a mixer board nor have I ever felt a need to use the venue sound system for my own bass needs. I have a total of 745 watts of audio thump in my own equipment and I have yet to find an indoor room large enough to need more. Our group doesn't do outdoor gigs, so that scenario is not part of our setup.


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Post subject: Re: Do you drink the cool-aid of a 2-10 cabinet?
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:57 pm
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Okay - How about this -- If you were to look at your bass rig --- Is your sound only coming from 2 10inch speakers ? Just 2 10's and nothing else?


I'm wondering about the mindset to only useing 2 10 inch speakers as a bass rig in a band.

Okay I thought some more about it-- (1.) Is a 2 10ich cabinet something that really kicks $@! or is it (2.) a thing where the person has decided it's too hard to carry anything else (3.)or just doesn't want to carry any larger of a cabinet? (4.) or does a 2- 10 cabinet kick butt, andyou are tired of carrying anything else to a gig. Or (5.) just drink a beer.


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Post subject: Re: Do you drink the cool-aid of a 2-10 cabinet?
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:21 pm
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I can only answer for myself, but each venue that we play at has a unique set of circumstances to deal with. While some bands just arrive, set up as they always do and just play their sets, many bands have an equipment or sound tech or even more than one to set things up according to how the set up frequencies coming from a white noise generator respond at various locations throughout the place. This is probably the proper way to do a setup because of all the variables - including curtain or drape locations and the inevitable sound dampening from them, partition walls, echo off walls, distortion from sound bouncing off overhead stage lights, and on and on. If a setup is done correctly, this also makes the audience feel a little better about the performance because they can hear and appreciate the full range of sound coming from the band no matter where they are positioned in the room.

I prefer a 2 X 10 cabinet over a single 15 because from our own setup records, the 2 X 10 cabinet does a better job, in general, in the majority of the places where we have been. I no longer use 15 inch cabinets. But I don't limit myself to a single 2 X 10 cabinet... I use whatever amount of amp and speakers I own or can rent to get the job done at each different place. Solely relying on a single cabinet with one pair of 10 inch speakers for each and every gig is not a wise decision, unless you belong to a 'garage band' and really don't care what the audience thinks. While a single 2 X 10 cabinet may work well in many places, it should not be your sole setup for everywhere - especially if you are earning a living at this. A poor sound setup for the band will turn off members of the audience and you may not see them at future gigs. That affects your pay check.

Do things well and you will be rewarded with good crowds and a good reputation. If that means going out and buying or renting more heavy equipment to get things right at a particular venue, then that is what should be done for the sake of the audience. After all, they are paying YOU to do an acceptable performance. And again, I can only speak for myself and our own setup procedures. What works for one band in certain venues may not work for others.


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Post subject: Re: Do you drink the cool-aid of a 2-10 cabinet?
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:50 pm
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An excellent response sir. It would be nice to set up in that manner at every gig and do actual sound / room testing for our band. We don't. The sound companies we use actually have the ability to do the room testing but like I said it doesn't happen. I do use the same rig at every gig. I guess our band is pro but not at the level of pro performance you describe. What can I say? We go in, set up and hack away. It's loud and swetty for the most part. Later the conversation about brick walls , metal cielings, tile floors. and this owner should put cork on the walls etc...... To be honest our audience is probubly not real sophisticated as far as the intricacies of sound goes. Some of them wouldn't even know if I stopped playing half way thru the song. We are a Classic Rock band of dudes in our 50's. Just making it to the gig and hammering down is par for us.


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Post subject: Re: Do you drink the cool-aid of a 2-10 cabinet?
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:21 am
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I've played gigs with 1x15, 2x10, 4x10, 2x10+1x15, and my current amps are a 1x15 Mesa Boogie and 2x10 Genz-Benz. I prefer the sound of the 2x10, and seriously prefer the lighter weight. I played my AV '57 through my Shuttle 3.0-10T+10T last night in a large room, and it took maybe three songs to dial in one of the best, warmest and present tones I've managed (the other two of the top three were my '51 RI into a 1970 Ampeg B15N and the same '57 into my Walkabout Scout). I'm not sure the speaker size makes that much difference, as long as you get the coverage you need. I gigged for years with an Ampeg B100R used for a stage monitor with a DI into the board, and got frequent compliments on the sound. Right now I have another G-B 10T speaker on order, so I can pull the M/B head out of its cab and use it with two lightweight 10s. I think that's the best of both worlds. Bassists seem to worship power, but I remember doing jobs with my '63 B15N (all of 40 watts) back in the day without problems. Last night, my little 300-watt G/B lifted nicely over a loud drummer and two loud guitar players.

We were playing everything from Sweet Home Alabama to Fly Me to the Moon, with a lot of stylistic stops in between. I can't speak for slappers, though.

Maybe the lesson I've learned is, "Get a Precision!" :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: Do you drink the cool-aid of a 2-10 cabinet?
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:00 am
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after all this 1x12", 2x12", 1x15", 4x10", 4x12" and this marshall's boogie with a benz (the one that janis wanted!) it's time for a cold beer and a little derailing: happy easter!!!

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Post subject: Re: Do you drink the cool-aid of a 2-10 cabinet?
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:55 am
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Sabre Lane wrote:
OK... PLuke says it works for him...

So I guess my question is:
What type of sound do you go for and what type of music do you play?
Do you slap or pop?
Do you do any material where the bass needs to vibrate the place like a church organ... (If so, does your Sony sub take care of that? and how big is the speaker on it?)

I've used 15's forever, but I've seen quite a few guys out here using 10's.... Can you shake the walls with 2X10's?
Can you thump and audience member's butt?

I'm not being facetious, I've asked a few guys about this, and I'm actually interested in your opinion...
I've seen enough of your posts that I would value your input.

Also....
If you're not going through the sound system at a big (large room... And I know you said you haven't tried it outdoors yet) gig, but the guitarists, drummer and whomever else are, is your stage volume so loud that the others have to feed their output through the monitors to hear themselves?

I'm old, but I'm still young enough to learn from others. :mrgreen:



========================================================

I think that I can answer almost all of your questions with one answer... we are not loud.

As Christian Contemporary musicians, our music does not have to be at 121 decibels to be appreciated. As I said, what works for one band may not work for others... just too many variables - including the audience that you are playing for and what their expectations are. We use just enough stage amplification to be heard properly in whatever size room or convention center we are playing. Our music is somewhat solemn, but we do occasionally do classic country - especially those older tunes actually written by southern artists and songwriters. But we still do not have to be overly loud to get the crowd clapping their hands and singing along.

The modified Sony subwoofer is a 145 watt single 10 inch with frequency response from 28 to 600 HZ. It can be remoted anywhere and fills in some dead sound spots in some venues where curtains muffle the main speaker cabinet radiation angles. The modifications include some heavy duty power supply and output components, an added low frequency preamp with in and out switching (much the same as a 6db switch on standard bass amps to go between active and passive pickups. We use this to match line out parameters from other amps.) It also has a 350 CFM cooling fan and custom power supply and output ducting to keep things nice and cool.

We don't use monitors because with our lower than average combined audio level, they just aren't necessary. Our percussionist's trap set is miked and run through a wireless receiver earbud system for the rest of us, but we only use that system when we are in a large room and running a bit more power on stage.


P-L


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Post subject: Re: Do you drink the cool-aid of a 2-10 cabinet?
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:03 pm
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A two ten cabinet would never work in my band. We are your 121 decible band. Loud Classic Rock.
I started out playing bass in the 70's with an SVT and 2 8-10 cabinets. So that gives you the history. I'm down to 1 4-10 cab but if I could fit another one in my Jeep I would use 2. I like having more power than I need for fidelity reasons. Yes I think about fidelity at 120 decibles. :D I know.. that's out there!


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Post subject: Re: Do you drink the cool-aid of a 2-10 cabinet?
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:46 am
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I like a tone that carves it own place in the mix. A lot of times that requires cutting the deep bass, but I think it gets a better overall sound for the band. It really annoys me when I hear a band and it's all just white noise, without any articulation in the bass or distinguishable lyrics. In any case, my approach doesn't require huge speaker area.

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"Digo: 'paciencia, y barajar.'" Don Quijote de la Mancha, Part II, Chapter 23


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Post subject: Re: Do you drink the cool-aid of a 2-10 cabinet?
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:59 am
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I know a guy-well don't know him real well-- but anyway he used an Ampeg SVT and 2 of the big cabinets in his band "The Godz"-- He plugged in and turned every knob all the way up. It sounded great. Not kidding. They played straight ahead 3 chord Rock-n-Roll. It certainly worked for that. The guy who owns ( part owner?) Cowtown Guitars in Vegas was in the Godz. The guys on Pawn Stars go there to have work done on guitars. Same guy plays/played lead for Bob Seager. He's from here where I live.


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Post subject: Re: Do you drink the cool-aid of a 2-10 cabinet?
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:12 am
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I have a better, personal experience: when I first got my Mesa/Boogie Walkabout Scout (which has very sophisticated tone controls) I left it at our rehearsal space because it was a hassle to load it in and out of my Toyota all the time. The singer/rhythm guitarist was rehearsing with another group, and the other bass player tried out the amp.

Now, understand that this amp is the Tone King: spend a few minutes tweaking it (especially, the parametric mids) and you hear a divine sound coming out of it.

So I innocently plugged my P into the next session, turned it on...

...and heard the most Godawful sound come out! The genius in the other band had turned every damn knob on it all the way up. What an idiot. I let him use a high-level amplifier, and he treated it like a throwaway transistor radio. Needless to say, I didn't leave the amp behind that night. So much for turning "every knob all the way up." Maybe it works for an SVT, but stay away from my Mesa/Boogie. :mrgreen:

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"Digo: 'paciencia, y barajar.'" Don Quijote de la Mancha, Part II, Chapter 23


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Post subject: Re: Do you drink the cool-aid of a 2-10 cabinet?
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:20 am
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Yeh there are alot of Rickies out there. I would be upset if someone did that to my amp. Only one other person has played thru my rig in 13 years. Whatever that means. I think it means I don't hang out with alot of bass players except here and the new forum. The "new" forum? Yes...........................


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Post subject: Re: Do you drink the cool-aid of a 2-10 cabinet?
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:39 am
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The "new" forum? I post a lot at Talkbass.com, but it's populated by a lot of non-Fender players. :mrgreen:

I don't hang with other bass players, either. I don't know what it is. It seems like I know 30 guitarists for each bass player -- and, around here, a lot of them are Bubbas who play a Jazz Bass through a Peavey amp (no offense to users of either) and they tend to be pretty unadventurous and they all mostly sound alike. The bozo I was talking about plays the same walking bass line on every song -- you may think I'm kidding, but it's the fact. He briefly sang backup in my band. After listening to me play what I thought were very cool bass parts (Black Magic Woman, say), he said to me, very seriously, "I guess you don't know how to play that walking bass." :roll: Besides, a band will accommodate several guitarists, but only one bassist (I'm not sure I want to get into this any more deeply). Anyhow, with my Precision and rock attitude, I don't have too much to talk about with most of those guys.

On the other hand, one of my favorite playing partners is an accomplished bassist, and is the guy who inspired me to pick it up. We mostly play guitar/guitar or guitar/Dobro or guitar/harp when we get together, but the other night he was on guitar and I was on bass, and it was interesting to see how far each of us had progressed on the "other" instrument over the 30 years we've been playing together.

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"Digo: 'paciencia, y barajar.'" Don Quijote de la Mancha, Part II, Chapter 23


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Post subject: Re: Do you drink the cool-aid of a 2-10 cabinet?
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:00 am
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I really, really like the Jazz bass thru a Peavey thing--- HHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! I can picture that exactly!!! I am in a similar situation here where I live. I'm not impressed with many bass players. The best one I saw in a local band overplayed so much that it ruined it for me. He had good chops but just played everything he knew in one or two songs. That was a whole lotta' notes I want to tell ya"!!! Less is not more in his case. Too bad cuase technically he played the sweetest Funk and stuff but just over-did it. I don't know if that makes him suck or what.

The new forum is to be announced soon but I'm not sure about membership etc or exactly how it will be released to the public.


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