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Post subject: Why did Leo pick 34"?
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:06 pm
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At 5'7" tall, I am just discovering the joys of shortscale basses.
After all the years of wrestling with my P basses, I have been relaxing into the ease of play on 30"-30.5" scale lengths.
Don't get me wrong, I love my P's, and I'll keep them, but sometimes it feels like I have a diving board hanging from my neck when I play them.
Of course, nothing sounds as good as a Pbass to my ears.
So I have been wondering, why did Leo Fender pick 34" scale for his first basses?
Did he base it on sound, or on a certain body size (like 6' and up)?

Of course, Carol Kaye did fine with hers. I don't think she is too tall.


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Post subject: Re: Why did Leo pick 34"?
Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:58 pm
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I've read that different scale lengths were tried, I've also read that they tried it so the neck wasn't too long, but not too short. And it just happened to work well, sot they left it.

It's possible the truth is somewhere in between, but based on what I've read about Leo Fender, it may have been the first one, or it may have been something in between--the 34" scale was reasoned out and then tried and judged to be good.

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Post subject: Re: Why did Leo pick 34"?
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:40 am
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If you like the P-Bass sound but like the feel of a short scale have you ever looked for a P Bass junior? It sounds just like a P Bass with a 28.5 scale. Not a toy has a regular P Bass pickup & sounds better than a Mustang or other short scale basses with weak pickups. The P Bass jr. is kinda rare made around 2003 for a very short time.


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Post subject: Re: Why did Leo pick 34"?
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:16 am
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Its actually because it provided the best combonation of string tension and intonation and neck stability under string pressure/tension,they only had very heavy gauge flatwounds to work with and they were designed specifically for the precision bass,there were no manufactored strings yet available seeing there were no electric basses yet being sold on a publicly available market.
It is possible that a estimation of average player size MAY of had some role in the scale length at >first design< but they already had the 6 string guitar to get a BASIC idea on what may be too big or too small in the designing of the first bass but the real demographics that matter are the ones listed above,they did have complete basses built in every scale sizing to determine what scale provided the best outcome possible with the combination of all the necessary appointments.
I could be wrong but judging on my research collecting Fender basses these facts add up to me,take'em or leave'em :!: :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: Why did Leo pick 34"?
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:43 pm
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Leo's secretary, Elizabeth Nagel Hayzlett was a student at UCLA. Leo borrowed her physics textbook and derived the 34" scale from calculations found in it, probably in 1950. No doubt there was some experimenting but no one remembers, at this point, precisely how that length was arrived at. Certainly, it works! I've owned a number of basses over the years, and none but the Fender standard fits me.

Part of the difficulty in using different scale lengths is the balance between the mass, tension and the low tuning. Shorter scales give something away in tone (in my opinion, of course) because the string sizes are not optimum. Bill Watts struggled for years to find a short scale bass that was as good as a Fender, and I don't know that he ever found one. Jack Bruce used a short scale Gibson with Cream, but, for all of his power, his tone wasn't very good, at least not any good in other contexts. I've played a couple of 32" scale basses, and I couldn't get much out of them, likely because I was expecting the feel I was used to.

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Post subject: Re: Why did Leo pick 34"?
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:05 pm
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I did a little more reading on the subject. The 34" was considered the best compromise because, although longer scales sounded better, they were harder to fret. It almost seems that 34" was the shortest practical length that Leo could use. Note that a 3/4 upright bass has a 42" scale, but the player stands beside it, giving better access to its length; and, also, most standup bass players don't get very far out of first position playing. Richard Smith, on whose book Fender: The Sound Hear Round the World, doesn't think Leo's later, short scale basses sounded nearly as good as the P/J originals. I've not played one, but one doesn't see as many Bass VIs or Mustang basses as Precisions and Jazz Basses.

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Post subject: Re: Why did Leo pick 34"?
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:21 pm
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lpdeluxe wrote:
Leo's secretary, Elizabeth Nagel Hayzlett was a student at UCLA. Leo borrowed her physics textbook and derived the 34" scale from calculations found in it, probably in 1950. No doubt there was some experimenting but no one remembers, at this point, precisely how that length was arrived at. Certainly, it works! I've owned a number of basses over the years, and none but the Fender standard fits me.

Part of the difficulty in using different scale lengths is the balance between the mass, tension and the low tuning. Shorter scales give something away in tone (in my opinion, of course) because the string sizes are not optimum. Bill Watts struggled for years to find a short scale bass that was as good as a Fender, and I don't know that he ever found one. Jack Bruce used a short scale Gibson with Cream, but, for all of his power, his tone wasn't very good, at least not any good in other contexts. I've played a couple of 32" scale basses, and I couldn't get much out of them, likely because I was expecting the feel I was used to.


I couldn't agree more completely! Jack Bruce's tone was sort of raw.


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Post subject: Re: Why did Leo pick 34"?
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:42 pm
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BPGoalie wrote:
If you like the P-Bass sound but like the feel of a short scale have you ever looked for a P Bass junior? It sounds just like a P Bass with a 28.5 scale. Not a toy has a regular P Bass pickup & sounds better than a Mustang or other short scale basses with weak pickups. The P Bass jr. is kinda rare made around 2003 for a very short time.

I haven't tried one, but I'd like to. I have played 30" basses and think that is as short as I'd want to go though. But I'd definitely give it a whirl if I could get my hands on one.

Maybe a CS Blue Flower version...a man can dream, can't he! Ha ha!


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Post subject: Re: Why did Leo pick 34"?
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:17 am
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fjbass wrote:
For back then, Jack was getting the sound he wanted. With only a three piece band, Cream, and West, Bruce, and Laing, he was doing a lot of live fill ins with the bass. The short scale Gibsons served their purpose. A more effective doing chords on a short scale, more like a six string.

That's a choice he made, but I can't imagine playing a bass with that tone. It worked for Cream...but their records still give me a headache after about five songs. :mrgreen:

Regardless of individual artists and the age-old zinger "Well, if it was good enough for Jack Bruce (or whomever)," the fact is that the short scale is well out of the mainstream. I personally think Leo nailed it with the scale length, just as he did with the split-coil pickup. Maybe it's nothing more than familiarity, but when I play my Precisions I get the sound I want and expect. I joined in a little acoustic blues jam at the local music store yesterday. The salesman handed me an Ibanez 5-string ABG (one I had traded in several years ago, in fact) with a 32" scale. It took a minute or two to get oriented.

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Post subject: Re: Why did Leo pick 34"?
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:48 pm
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I must say, my SG Bass is not as bright as my Pbasses, and I get the sound I expect and desire most from my P's, too. However, the Gibson doesn't sound so different to me. Just a little, I guess because the core tone is from me, and the rest from the bass, and amp???

Now, If original EB basses were muddier than modern day SG's, then they would be undesireable to me as the SG Bass gets as warm a tone as I can take. The P's are much brighter from what I am hearing with a more defined sound and nails pitch better, imho.

I just tried a Mustang Bass, and though it is a shortie, it shared all the same elements as my Pbasses I just described. I cannot get a clear harmonic to tune with on the Gibby at the 5th fret, low E string. It was clear as a bell on the 'Stang. Leo got it right.


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