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Post subject: Identifying Fender Precision Bass
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:26 pm
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Today I bought a Fender Precision. It has a cream/blonde body, and a (seemingly) curly maple or similar neck. The chrome tone knob is missing, as is the bridge cover. The finish on the body is somewhat beaten up, and most worrisome, there are some slight cracks on the back of the neck, behind the nut.

The bass is signed by guitarist Joey Z. of Life of Agony, with a date of 1994. The inscription is to the gentleman the bass was bought from today. I cannot find a serial number on the bass. The peg head decals has the following patent numbers on it: Pat. 2573254 2976755 2968204 3143028.

I have two questions I am hoping someone or someones on the forum can answer for me:

1. In the absence of a serial number, can someone help me date this bass?
2. How concerned should I be about the cracks under the nut.

I am brand new to the forum, and have not figured out how to upload photos. I can send them via e-mail should one of you be interested.

Thank you,

Joe


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Post subject: Re: Identifying Fender Precision Bass
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:12 pm
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Those are patent numbers common to many Fender instruments.

2573254 is for the pickup and bridge combination device used on guitars of the Telecaster design.

2976755 is for the split coil pickup design used on the Precision Bass since 1957. So it is relative.

2968204 is the patent granted in 1961 for the single coil pickup used in many guitars including the Jaguar, Stratocaster, Duosonic and others.

3143028 is for the patent granted in August 1964 just prior to the sale to CBS for Leo Fender's "Adjustable neck construction for guitars and the like."

All these patents appeared after 1965. These were all Patent Pending innovations and were used for years before the patent was granted. So the year they were granted helps figure out the year the guitar was produced.

Every guitar should have a serial. If you have a genuine Fender neck and body, there should be stampings at the base of the neck and in the neck pocket of the body. Photos of those are very helpful. From 50 until the summer of 54, Broadcasters, Teles & P-Basses have the serial on the BRIDGE BASE PLATE. Starting in 54 until mid 76 the serial is on the neck plate. Mid 76 till today the serial moves to either the headstock decal or to the back of the headstock on all US/Mexican mass production. Modern CUSTOM SHOP instruments will usually have the serial on the neck plate. Modern Japanese serials are decaled on the base of the neck back and were on the headstock decal in 85 till 87 during the set up of the new Fender USA in Corona.

There are numbers on the back of the pot. It helps to have the series of numbers beginning with either 137 for CTS pots or 304 for Stackpole pots. The entire sequence should be 7 numbers long.

Photos of the electronics helps validate they are stock.

To post photos here, first you need to have or open an account at online photo hosting service such as photobucket.com. Once you upload them there, click the IMG button in the menu above the text box in the post page here and PASTE the DIRECT LINK to the photo between the IMG tags in the post. Then when through writing click PREVIEW and if photos display correctly click SUBMIT like on a usual post. That's it.

Yes the cracks need to be examined by a luthier. They are not uncommon at all and are repairable and in many cases the repairs are nearly invisible. Unattended they can spread and get worse and worse. They really need to be checked. Only by a good going over can it be determined if they are something to be concerned about.

If you find no markings, stampings or stickers at the base of the neck, on the neck paddle or in the body's neck pocket, check in the pickup cavity also.

That is a lot of information, so you might need to read this information twice. Good luck!


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Post subject: Re: Identifying Fender Precision Bass
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:37 pm
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Thanks very much, Brother Dave. I will review what you've sent a few times and manage to get some pictures up. I was nervous about removing the four screws on the neck plate, but will do so and see if I can come up with some numbers, and will look under the pickups if I cannot find any. I was unable to find numbers on the bridge baseplate - are they usually on the visible surface, or on the underside? Given that this was a hardworking bass, it is conceivable that some of these parts were replaced years back.

I'll get some photos loaded up, and let you know what I find.

Thanks, and best,

Joe


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Post subject: Re: Identifying Fender Precision Bass
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:39 am
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Since the patents are post 1965, the serial would not be on the bridge. If it was it would be clearly visible on the top of the bridge. All of the P-Bass bridges with the serial on them have 2 saddles. That paragraph was my standard answer for serial location on all Fender basses. Didn't mean to send you on a wild goose chase there. Pot codes, neck and body stampings, stickers or pencil marks are what you should be looking for. in the hidden areas. Also I neglected to mention that the headstock decal can also help date the instrument to a range of years, so long as it is the original decal.


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Post subject: Re: Identifying Fender Precision Bass
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:39 am
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brotherdave wrote:
Also I neglected to mention that the headstock decal can also help date the instrument to a range of years, so long as it is the original decal.


@brotherdave, guess you know that fender offered a fresh-up service (any kind of set up and on to refinishings) late '60s-early '70s, that included replacing the decals, so some of the '59-'64 basses (dunno about guitars) do have the transition logo.
i once contacted a guy in ebay who offered a "original" '62 preci but with a "wrong" transition-logo, i considered it as a fake but he told me this story then. (unfortunately those pics have gone with a old hdd)

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Post subject: Re: Identifying Fender Precision Bass
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:22 am
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I am not trying to beat a dead horse but I try to be vigilante in saying: These are the questions that should be asked BEFORE buying a bass,not so much in the lower priced ones(though a good practice to be sure anytime buying)but super important when buy a US made,custom shop,owned by someone...or the most important when buying a VINTAGE piece.
It's much harder now-a-days to fake them like before,now with all the info readly available with the touch of a button a decal can be checked out,the serial numbers can be dated,the routing pin marks can be compaired,serial numbers on the pots can be dated,individual builders names stamped on the body and neck can be authenticated and even the dates of production written or stamped can be traced,ITS ALL AVAILABLE.
So with all this at your fingertips why wait till its bought and paid for to check,do it BEFORE. I know we would.
G/LUCK btw: The sooner the pics the sooner your answers :D

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Post subject: Re: Identifying Fender Precision Bass
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:40 am
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Being somewhat dimwitted when it comes to such things, posting these pictures has taken me a lot of trial and error.

And I assumed a certain degree of amiable risk in buying this bass - the seller accepted $250.00, and the transaction was conducted over the telephone as one of my friends had stumbled upon the seller's fire sale. I'm much less concerned about the pedigree of the bass than I am about the cracks on the neck behind the nut. That part of the deal was not relayed to me by my friends, but I figured I needed to risk it given the quoted price. In the end, I may be like one of the folks on Antiques Roadshow who's been fooled into buying something very much overpriced, but again, I knew the risks.

You may be able to tell that the nut is somewhat shifted (maybe a 16th of an inch) toward the left in its slot. Again, something I did not know ahead of time.

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Post subject: Re: Identifying Fender Precision Bass
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:15 pm
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It looks like a bogus decal to me,the body looks old and "reliced" but the tuners are very shiny and the decal is solid black which is only found on the MIM models in the early 90's,it could be a real body by Fender but the neck looks more Japanese Lawsuit to me(hard to tell,better pics will help,actually any pics will help,your first were not very accurate)why would the decal be changed other than false originality ? no model type either,no serial either,hard to tell from...

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Post subject: Re: Identifying Fender Precision Bass
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:44 pm
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That is not a MIM Black Label Series 90's P-Bass headstock decal. The Black Label Series clearly said Precision Bass, Jazz Bass, etc. Obviously a fake decal. Possibly an aftermarket neck or lawsuit neck. Would need to see photos of the hidden areas of the neck and the body neck pocket. Would also benefit from seeing the electronics.

Loosen strings or remove them. Remove the 4 neck bolts. Work the neck out gradually. Photo any markings, stamps or stickers on neck or body. Remove pickguard screws, gently lift pickguard and photo the electronics on the back of the pickguard, also advise the pot codes as previously described. Replace but don't secure pickguard. Remove all four pickup screws and check for sticker or marks in the pickup cavity and photo those. Reassemble and post photos. Would help to see photo of the back of the headstock also.

Suspecting that you will not find Fender sticker or stamps on the neck.

Also this is not a factory refinished neck. They would not have used a black logo and it would have said PRECISION BASS.

Also you can go to my website, download and cut out the neck radius tool and advise what the neck radius is. The link to that page is: http://brotherdave.com/add_maint.htm


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Post subject: Re: Identifying Fender Precision Bass
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:54 pm
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It looks like the nut is hanging over the side of the neck- it's sticking out...right?
I can't see cracks.- need alot more pics because you may have some real Fender stuff going on there and that could be a good thing. Get pics of the whole deal inside and out. These guys on here are good at knowing what's up with a bass.


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Post subject: Re: Identifying Fender Precision Bass
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:49 am
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I am going to stick my neck out and say that I think you have a legit Fender bass,made in the USA.
I would like to see all additional pictures of it that you can provide, but there is a look of the tuners, the string retainer and the walnut plug in the end of the neck that just lead me to think that this is at least a good USA parts bass.
There is a legit look to the body and the dimensions of the pick guard that strike me as an american Fender.
I could be wrong, so please give us more pictures of this bass if you can,
BTW I think that the decal could be legit but only half of the original decal is on the bass. someone took off the Precision Bass!

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Post subject: Re: Identifying Fender Precision Bass
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:48 am
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I think the CAN be possibly real Fender but It looks more quality import than US made,which is'nt necessarly a bad thing,Those who know me can attest to my beliefs in the high quality of Japanese Lawsuit basses(exact copies of Fenders imported from Japan)and having a neck(possibly)from this line of basses is(my opinion)a good thing.
The tuners and the ferrels(bushings for the tuners)dont look like the usually do on a older Fender,It's nothing especially different just not quite right with the patina(mis-coloring due to age and elements)makes me wonder,but a pic of the back of the headstock will put that to rest,and taking of the plastic pickgaurd will reveal some important clues to look for to determine whats what.
:mrgreen:
And as Far as The Decal goes I stand with Dave in the agreement of it being a reproduction of the style used on earlier model MIM basses,they do not match 100% but they resemble one another closer than any other Fender decals do.
:idea:

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Post subject: Re: Identifying Fender Precision Bass
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:16 am
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Lawsuit- you are Japanese or turning Japanese- one or the other! HA! :D

The bass looks ( post more pics because we are all interested like Sherlock Holmes) like it may be a Fender-- I hope it is- but without at least good pics who knows? The neck could be refinished- that could be the fake-o decal thing.


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Post subject: Re: Identifying Fender Precision Bass
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:25 am
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I have a similar question to the original poster. Based on an earlier response regarding the black logo, would these pics be a MIM precision with EMG pickup replacements?

thanks.

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Post subject: Re: Identifying Fender Precision Bass
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:01 pm
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it looks like a parts guitar and a not quite right decal from the 70's- too bad they put some aftermarket tuners on it.... the volute is odd... maybe too defined?


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