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Post subject: Late 1970's vs. 2000 era. Which is the better MIA P Bass
Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:56 am
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I have noticed a need for a fretted P Bass in my household. A pre-CBS would be lovely but I just can not justify the expense right now. I have almost made it a rule to buy American. I generally prefer older instruments and I see CBS era instruments that I could afford (mostly later 70's) but I shy away due to the CBS issue. How does a 1978 P Bass stack up against a 2004 or 2008 American made? I'd love your insights. Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Late 1970's vs. 2000 era. Which is the better MIA P Bass
Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:53 am
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Fender in the 70's was on a decline and the basses showed the corners being cut,There are great 70's basses but there are also a bunch of boat anchors without any tone.
I was drafted by a good friend to help him find a p-bass to make an investment,he gotten a good job and wanted to buy something to play and to save for whatever came down the road later in life.
At the time his budget was 3500.00$ this was about 6 yrs ago,we went to a bunch of music stores who specialize in vintage high end basses,and after about 10 or so p-basses we settled on a 74 black w/maple fretboard for 3000.00$ everything was original(no ashtray covers,thats it)it was taken apart and cataloged,pictures were included of everything to prove originality for insurance purposes and in case of sale to prove validity.
Now it was'nt easy to find a 70's bass that meet all the qualifications of both originality and playability/tone,The reasons most offered why they were modified was necessity,not for show,many musicians claimed the build was'nt as good as it should be and the electronics were another complaint of quality stemming from corners being cut.
Look at some of the basses that are natural wood finish,the wood looks like a 2 y.o. picked out the grains to be glued,terrible graining thats not even close to matching; and 3 and 4 pieces of wood to make a body,sad :cry: .
Necks were famous for twisting,cowtungs were the slang term for the last 6-8 frets in which the fretboard developed a ramp(cowtung)fixing it would require fret removal and neck planing to level it out,Also weight was another issue,13 lb jazz basses were known to exist and not to mention dead spots on the neck were another hassle of that decades basses,the list goues on and on ETC.....
New ones are NOW much better,they ironed out most of the kinks that plauged Fender basses for along time,necks are graphite reinforced and broken in for better feel,electronics are quiet and powerful when need be,tons of finish options are available for EVERY bassists needs,hardware is killer and fit and finish is flawless in most cases.
I have one of each(jazz,p-basses)and have not one complaint and going on almost 8 yrs old they look great and hold tune and no issues with the neck(my jazz needs a fret-level to get lower action,I believe all basses need a fret-level after their first year),and for the 1000.00$ price you get your moneys worth,I got both mine for 1200.00$ used,like they came out the factory,shop around on ebay you can get one used for 700.00$ new for 1000.00$.
G/Luck hoped my rantings helped :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: Late 1970's vs. 2000 era. Which is the better MIA P Bass
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:07 am
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Thank you, guys.

Other things I have read say the the decline was pretty immediate after CBS took over, and that there was even some decline evident in the last year of Fender ownership, before the actual transfer.

I was a teenager and just getting seriously into the guitar when Fender was purchased by CBS. I grew up in the Gibson camp. My first REAL guitar was a new 1965 SG special. And, apparently, I never came in contact with many older Fenders because I didn't really GET it until I stumbled across the early 80's vintage reissue strats and telecasters. They were precise and nimble and beautiful to look at. I immediately bought one of each. I would find my self just staring at them, they were so lovely. I had never experienced anything the looked and played so beautifully. I remember wanting to have a suit made out of that tweed. That's the kind of bass I want to find. I am beginning to understand that it is most likely not a CBS product that I seek.


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Post subject: Re: Late 1970's vs. 2000 era. Which is the better MIA P Bass
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:33 pm
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hmmmmm....... It depends on how deep you would want to go as to trying to find a CBS bass that honks (I think). A 70's bass moneywise and how much more it's worth is something alot of people may consider. I think although the CBS 70's era basses did have some quality control issues- there are some good basses of that period in time-- it has been my experiance that the 77-78-79 basses are pretty heavy-- I mean alot of those just weigh a ton. 76 and below are a little different in weight and feel. Another odd thing that may just be me but I have rarely if ever seen a 70 P bass or a 70 Jazz. 71s' sure and 72s but no 70's. That's off topic- sorry.
If I could aford to buy a 70's era Fender Jazz or P I would look for one that is 74 or earlier.

I do not think a 2008 P bass sounds exactly like any 70's p bass I've tried. I don't want to say I know exactly what it is that makes them sound that way to me but I lean that way. They are just different - to me. The old ones seem to have a more "woody" tone. I'm talking about accceptible nice good sounding basses -- not boat anchor type Fenders. And once again I'm speaking generally AND I'm not saying 08 P basses don't sound good.


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Post subject: Re: Late 1970's vs. 2000 era. Which is the better MIA P Bass
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:36 am
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strangedup wrote:
...Other things I have read say the the decline was pretty immediate after CBS took over, and that there was even some decline evident in the last year of Fender ownership, before the actual transfer....


What people are referring to in the final year of Leo Fender's ownership as "decline" was the change in the production process that sped up production in the finishing department which was the "log jam" where a finish could literally take three days. A new sealer/primer called FullerPlast (Fuller = Fuller-O'Brien Paints and Plast = plastic) was used to seal the body. Fullerplast dried much faster. It was hard and smooth. It also formed a dense plastic sarcophagus over the body that would not let anything in or out. It not only added weight but didn't allow moisture to escape which also contributes to lightness over time and aids resonance tremendously. This 1964 production change is often pointed to as the end of the Golden Era instruments. While they continued to use the same porous nitro paints it didn't matter, the body was sealed in the plastic shell. Some people claim that moisture escapes from the neck pocket joint, pickup/control cavities and screw holes, and while some moisture does escape I do not believe that it happens fast enough to make any real improvement in resonance in a person's natural lifetime.

It is my view that today's Fender American Standard and Deluxe basses are a better buy than even the pre-CBS basses. There are three reasons. First, the necks are far more stable than ever due to the 2008 model design overhaul that should eliminate neck issues for all but a very few basses. Neck issues on Fender electric basses have been commonplace even in the Pre-CBS basses but they are much more stable now with this major redesign. Second, the electronics are better today, especially on the Deluxes. Third, you can buy a new 2011 with warranty for a tiny fraction of what a Pre-CBS one costs.

Still I'd urge playing several before buying one. Just like today there were great ones and not so good ones in all eras. Some are always better than others. To insure a better body blank, get one of the slightly translucent finishes which today means Sunburst.

Of course if you want one of the 60's or 70's Custom Colors like Blue Ice Metallic or Antigua then that alone is a good enough reason to buy one.

Everyone bemoans CBS instruments, but my 1968 Telecaster Bass was a fine instrument with a rock steady neck and my 1971 Jazz was gorgeous and played OK, I just never liked the tone all that much and the Candy Apple Red finish was very "soft" and anywhere I bumped it at all you would see the stark white Fullerplast underneath.


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Post subject: Re: Late 1970's vs. 2000 era. Which is the better MIA P Bass
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:39 am
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Just one more thing. The American Vintage series P-Basses and J-Basses are really nice and an affordable alternative to a vintage bass. They cost a little more though, but still not as much as a similar Custom Shop bass.


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Post subject: Re: Late 1970's vs. 2000 era. Which is the better MIA P Bass
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:34 am
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Let us not forget the JAPANESE made basses,for about the cost of a more expensive Mexican made Fender(60's classic,70's classic,Roadworn series ETC..)you can buy an exquisite Japanese made bass.
The options and large number of models offered you would be hard pressed to NOT find one bass of your dreams,I would go with the Japan line of basses,so many to drool over its a chore to look at all of them,and believe me you would WANT to see'um all,type in Fenderjapan and enjoy,I remember my first visit,oh the memories :cry:

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Neil quoted from the "Young Ones" MTV Sketch series.


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Post subject: Re: Late 1970's vs. 2000 era. Which is the better MIA P Bass
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:56 pm
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My point of reference is a bit skewed because I have never really played any late 70's basses, but I absolutely love my Am Std. basses! I have a late '07 Jazz and a 2010 P with a maple fretboard and they both play and sound great. The only thing I'd ever even consider changing about the P is the p-up(simply because I prefer the vintage R.I. p-ups).

All my Fender basses are strung with flats(D'Addario Chromes) and I have the Am. Std. basses top-loaded instead of string-thru. IMHO, there isn't a better instrument available for the money!!!


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