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Post subject: Intro + bass ID question
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 11:35 am
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Hello all. I'm a recent convert to the world of P Bass players. I play in a Connecticut based rock band (Fatal Film) in which I've always played a Rick. I absolutely love the Rick but have always felt it was a little lacking in the low end. So I've been considering getting a Precision for a while now. I finally met one whose charms I could not resist:

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This isn't your everyday P Bass (see the three knobs but one pick-up) so I thought I'd check on here to see if anyone might know something about it.

The previous owner purchased it new in 2000 or 2001 from a shop that was closing (actually, I think he said two shops were consolidating into one). The serial number (E315897), dates it to between '82-'85 from the Fullerton factory.

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He says it was definitely new when he bought it (he even gave me the original hex keys that came with it) which means it sat around at this shop for 15 years or so (perhaps in back-stock for much of the time?).

As for those three knobs, the first is volume and the other two control bass and treble. They work very very well. I love the versatility of this thing. But is this setup at all common? I haven't been able to find another like it. The previous owner guessed that it might have been a factory special request. Is that a possibility? The plate on the back does say "Limited Edition":

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Here's a closer shot of the front:

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So I'm just curious about it. Regardless of this thing's origin, I absolutely love it. It plays and sounds fantastic, and the owner let it go for a very reasonable price (especially considering its condition ... he only played it heavily for about a year and he takes great care of his instruments). I played my first show with it a couple of nights ago, and it cut through the mix so nicely, and made a great companion to my Traynor tube amp that was recently rejuvenated by the same guy that sold me the bass.

Any thoughts/info would be appreciated. Now I'll get back to playing the thing! :D

Cheers!

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Post subject: Re: Intro + bass ID question
Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 3:14 pm
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I posted a reply on the 'Show Your Precision' thread, but I'll repeat it here too...

This looks like a halfway-house between the '82 P-Bass Special and the '83 P-Bass Elite. Normally, the special had the active electronics but I've only seen them with an early hi-mass version of the standard P-Bass bridge. The Elite had the Schaller fine-tuning bridge shown here, but the ones I've seen also had a Lace Sensor split-coil pickup (sometimes 2) - the one with no visible pole-pieces. This looks like a standard P-Bass split-coil job with open pole-pieces. Is the body alder or ash, do you know? Looks like alder from the pics, but...

I've just spotted an interesting thread here you might like to read. If what Brother Dave says is right (he usually is) you have a very rare bass indeed: http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23888 though the serial number is not as Br Dave describes, but is a normal production eighties one.

I do like a good mystery...


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Post subject: Re: Intro + bass ID question
Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 4:57 pm
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Thanks for the feedback!

What would be the best way to determine if the wood is alder or ash? The weight? Patterns in the wood? I'm a bit lacking in the wood knowledge department. :wink:

Do you know if either of the models you mentioned had separate bass and treble controls? I'm far from knowledgeable in general about P Basses, but that certainly doesn't look like a very common feature. Could this have been offered as a custom option?

And then I wonder how it sat in a shop from the early 80s until it was purchased in 2000. Perhaps it was a custom order that was never paid for that ended up sitting in the back room for years.

Yes ... a mystery indeed. But a really nice bass regardless. It looks like it's already replaced the Rick in both of my bands (though I'll always have a soft spot for my Rick).

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'78 Rick 4001
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Post subject: Re: Intro + bass ID question
Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 7:18 pm
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fjbass wrote:
Welcome to Fender Land. Congrats on a stunning looking Fender P Bass. Best of playing with it.


Thanks! Yeah ... that bass has brought nothing but pleasure so far. The sound is exactly what I've been wanting. I'm an official P Bass convert.

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Post subject: Re: Intro + bass ID question
Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 1:25 am
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SoulFinger wrote:
Thanks for the feedback!

What would be the best way to determine if the wood is alder or ash? The weight? Patterns in the wood? I'm a bit lacking in the wood knowledge department. :wink:

Do you know if either of the models you mentioned had separate bass and treble controls?


Alder has a tighter, smoother grain, with less obvious pores; ash has a very striking, open grain, with big open pores. Swamp ash is lighter than alder usually, and any ash tends to have a brighter, zingier tone than alder, which latter sounds (to me!) warmer and more growly.

Some of the Specials were described in the catalogue as 'walnut' - but from the pics I've seen (e.g. in Black & Molinaro: The Fender Bass, An Illustrated History) they were probably walnut stained, like the present-day Squier 'walnut' Jazz Bass Standard.

Both the Specials and (most of) the Elites had the separate bass & treble controls - the Elite II had 2 little mini-toggles, one for active/passive, and the other a 3-way for the 2 pickups. The 1 pickup Elite had only one toggle, and some I've seen were made without the active circuit at all, and just the normal single volume and tone knobs like any other P-Bass - my old '70RI, for instance.

Nice Ric, BTW! I've always had a soft spot for Rics too. Another confession I hesitate to mention here, but I sometimes even find myself missing my old EB-3 :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Intro + bass ID question
Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 8:00 am
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PVTele wrote:
Alder has a tighter, smoother grain, with less obvious pores; ash has a very striking, open grain, with big open pores. Swamp ash is lighter than alder usually, and any ash tends to have a brighter, zingier tone than alder, which latter sounds (to me!) warmer and more growly.


From that description, I'd guess that it is alder. I would describe the sound as warm and growly for sure (though I do play through a ferociously growly amp :twisted: ).

And thanks for all of your help trying to narrow down this search. Would the Elites and Specials usually be identified as such on the headstock? I notice that the Special in the thread you linked to had "Precision Special" on the headstock. Was Fender consistent with that kind of branding?

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Post subject: Re: Intro + bass ID question
Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 10:06 am
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SoulFinger wrote:
Would the Elites and Specials usually be identified as such on the headstock? I notice that the Special in the thread you linked to had "Precision Special" on the headstock. Was Fender consistent with that kind of branding?


I don't think Fender was consistent with anything much around that date :wink: It was right before CBS put Fender up for sale, and there were some odd instruments being produced, as parts were used up at the end of model runs. Some were just weird, I think, but others, like yours, were stunners.

Yours doesn't fit precisely into any of the models listed in The Fender Bass, or in Bacon & Moorhouse's The Bass Book. (But then mine doesn't appear there either, despite their long list of CIJ/MIJ models!). If I had to make a wild guess, I'd say that you had a bass with elements of both Special and Elite electronics, but with an Elite neck. Certainly the headstock logo and the serial number would suit a non-walnut Elite.


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Post subject: Re: Intro + bass ID question
Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 11:05 am
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PVTele wrote:
I don't think Fender was consistent with anything much around that date :wink: It was right before CBS put Fender up for sale, and there were some odd instruments being produced, as parts were used up at the end of model runs. Some were just weird, I think, but others, like yours, were stunners.

Yours doesn't fit precisely into any of the models listed in The Fender Bass, or in Bacon & Moorhouse's The Bass Book. (But then mine doesn't appear there either, despite their long list of CIJ/MIJ models!). If I had to make a wild guess, I'd say that you had a bass with elements of both Special and Elite electronics, but with an Elite neck. Certainly the headstock logo and the serial number would suit a non-walnut Elite.


ok ... thanks so much! I'll just go ahead and call it a "Spelite". :wink: Kidding, of course. It's good to know that the uniqueness of the bass fits in with the history of the company at that time. I'm glad I ended up with an instrument that is odd in a good way!

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'78 Rick 4001
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Post subject: Re: Intro + bass ID question
Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 11:22 am
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Spelite is good - a lot better than calling it an Elitial, anyhow :mrgreen:

Just noticed something: the body is definitely a Special rather than an Elite - the Elite had a little extra hole in the neckplate, where you could stick an Allen key to adjust the neck pitch, rather like the 'microtilt' adjustment on the 70's Strats with 3-bolt necks.

Actually, given that many (most?) of the employees remained with the company from Leo's days, through CBS, and on into Bill Schultz's ownership, many of these unusual instruments were beautifully made. Yours certainly looks that way - you've a real collector's item, by all appearances :D

Srsly, if you want a name for your bass, it's a 'transitional' instrument - see Black & Molinaro's The Fender Bass, an Illustrated History p.79, where there's a pic of a wonderfully mixed-up Jazz Bass from 1983!

Cheers

Mike


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Post subject: Re: Intro + bass ID question
Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 11:48 am
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PVTele wrote:
Srsly, if you want a name for your bass, it's a 'transitional' instrument - see Black & Molinaro's The Fender Bass, an Illustrated History p.79, where there's a pic of a wonderfully mixed-up Jazz Bass from 1983!


Thanks! I actually wanted to read up on that period a bit (I'm a librarian ... can't be helped) so it's great to know where to start.

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Post subject: Re: Intro + bass ID question
Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 2:39 pm
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There's some more on this era in The Bass Book (p.109ff) - plenty on the company, the move to Corona, etc,. but not so much on the transitional instruments. Pity. (Some decent pics, though...)


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Post subject: Re: Intro + bass ID question
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 12:58 pm
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In the pictures of the specialelite the body almost looks like it could be maple. What's the weight like of the bass? Maple is usually kind of heavy. It doesnot look like ash and I really have never seen alder with flame in it. It may even be alder and maple put together. I can see where it's a 3 or 4 piece body -right?
Really nice looking bass !!!!


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Post subject: Re: Intro + bass ID question
Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 1:34 pm
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Very likely is a three-piece body, but it's listed as alder in Fender's spec quoted in the books - and it should be alder really, for the type of bass. You do get a very slight - and unpredictable! - flame in some pieces of alder.


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Post subject: Re: Intro + bass ID question
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 5:50 pm
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I believe this color was possibly called SUNSET ORANGE TRANSPARENT over alder. Any see-through type finishes like this got the better body blanks. I suspect a neck swap at some point. It obviously is a Special body and control setup and should have a serial starting "GO" not E3. However as many are quick to point out serials were not always consistent, but usually.

Secondly, many parts instruments and radically modified basses are passed off as late Fullerton and then the irregularities are explained away as "crazy last minute stuff made out of the parts they had left." I have been personally assured by some of the people working Fullerton till the last day in Quality Control/Final Inspection that "THE SPECS WERE THE SPECS" and no irregular basses were allowed to be shipped even on the very last day. Therefore I'm wondering whether there was a neck swap.


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Post subject: Re: Intro + bass ID question
Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 1:09 am
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brotherdave wrote:
Secondly, many parts instruments and radically modified basses are passed off as late Fullerton and then the irregularities are explained away as "crazy last minute stuff made out of the parts they had left." I have been personally assured by some of the people working Fullerton till the last day in Quality Control/Final Inspection that "THE SPECS WERE THE SPECS" and no irregular basses were allowed to be shipped even on the very last day. Therefore I'm wondering whether there was a neck swap.


That's interesting, Br Dave, and thanks very much for coming in on our discussion! I'd wondered about a neck swap, but if it is, would it be an Elite neck (which it does look like, as I said earlier) or would there be issues with the microtilt neck? (Though I did at one time play a '78 Strat with a 3-bolt microtilt neck, I never had the neck off to see if the heel would fit a normal pocket...)

What you say about the last days at Fullerton makes sense; and yet there is this persistent story of CBS, earlier than the actual factory move, starting in maybe '83, producing 'bitsers' - see f'r instance the 'transitional' instruments mentioned in Black & Molinaro's The Fender Bass, an Illustrated History on p.79, where there's even a pic of a mixed-up Jazz Bass from 1983. Do you, and your contacts at Fullerton / Corona, know anything about this period particularly?


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