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Post subject: I think I may know why...
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:31 am
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I on almost every Fender bass(jazz or P)I have owned they all seemed to have a dead not on the G string,they even went as far as designing a headstock fitted weight called the Fatfinger,it helps to relocate the dead notes elsewhere out of the players favorite spots,I've seen it change the neck entirely leaving no deadspots anywhere,unless you take it off it works as it should,Keep in mind wood is organic and may change a few more times with the aging process but its an easy solution to a potentially costly repair.
My point is I owned countless Japanese made necks on lawsuit models(same headstock design & size along with neck and body dimensions being copied too,All my years doing repairs along with personal basses I have worked on I have never found the famous Fender deadspots on the Japanese 3 piece headstock neck,after doing some research I have found just about all the headstocks designed this way(3 piece) compaired to the one piece Fender designed they had few to zero dead spots,Oddly enuff some even think of the Dead note flaw" as an attraction and noble(lack of a better word) design flaw as an attraction,And not a con.
I have a 3 piece Memphis maple neck w/maple fetboard from 1977,which is more stable than just about any other vintage Fender neck I have personally owned or repaired,even the newer ones that are fitted w/graphrite covered supports and the dual adjustment truss-rods which were designs ment to stabilize necks further than just what a truss-rod could do,and still the Japanese made original design bass necks play/sound and react to weather/humidity much better than mostly all Fenders "neck stability designs",SAD BUT TRUE,A japanese made neck costing 1/3 the price just about outdoes A 500.00$ Fender factory made neck.
I'm not talking about the licensed by Fender parts stores like Miteymite,Warmouth ETC...I mean the real Fender factory ones. its hard to buy american when they are overpriced and lower in quality

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Post subject: Re: I think I may know why...
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:50 pm
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I've had around 60 basses. Only maybe 4 or 5 have had what I might call dead spots. Now the three Musicman basses had pretty much dead G strings. I'd say that basses with weak G strings may be mistaken for dead spots on the G string. I can take care of weak G string on a Fender most times by using different pickups. My 68 Tele bass did have some deadspot issues but I didn't keep it long enough to really work it out. I'm not saying you don't know squat-- I'm just conveying my experiance.

Some Fender basses just don't sound good. I swear. Same with Strats and whatever. Same with other brands. It doesn't matter what you do to them- they are still "duds". I really believe it is the nature of the beast with all guitar brands. I also believe that a person can have a cheapo plywood guitar that just sounds great. Nature of them Beasts.


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Post subject: Re: I think I may know why...
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:37 pm
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My '89 is an MIJ, I've never had any deadspot on it. I've owned over 30 basses though out the years - since '88 - 1 Yamaha, not sure of the model, had a deadspot on the G string, and Ibanez P bass copy same thing. I had a 1st gen SoundGear that had it, they replaced the whole bass, it was a neck thru. I had an acoustic that had a deadspot, that was an Applause. I bought a 2nd one, no deadspot.

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Post subject: Re: I think I may know why...
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:10 pm
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The FATFINGER Bass device marketed by GrooveTubes has been discontinued. Don't know why. It added mass to the neck thus changing the resonance. This could move the dead spot or in some cases eliminate it as was noted in the original post. I've had lots of trouble with first string dead spots somewhere between fret 4 to fret 6 on many instruments of various makes, not just USA Fender. It has to do with the resonance of the neck. This resonance causes a counter vibration that cancels out the sustain, sort of like a phasing problem in speakers that are wired out of phase. I mostly play on the E,A,D string and since I'm playing mostly thumpy stuff with little sustain required it hasn't really been that big a problem for me and I can work around it if I know it is there.

Regarding the Japanese prices. Due to the exchange rate and the weak US Dollar, the CIJ stuff is very close to USA prices now. If the trend continues eventually CIJ may be even higher than USA.

Yes Japanese necks are great and so is the body finish work. The perpetual weak spot with CIJ instruments and the MIJ instruments historically has been the electronics which have never been up to USA standards and to a lesser extent hardware that also isn't as good as USA stuff.


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Post subject: Re: I think I may know why...
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:06 pm
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I heard so good stuff here and different takes on things open new ideas,I have to great American made Fender basses,a 2005 american 60th anniversery model(a few factory bells and whistles)and 2003 American p-bass,the p-bass was gotten for a song(literely,I sang a song for the bass,NO just joking...$449.00)the neck is as good as I could have hooped for,a little less sustain on the 6th fret G string,but BARELY audible,BUT my Jazz that was 200.00$ higher than the usual bass of that year due to abalone fret-markers,custum shop 62 re-issue pick-ups along w/Faux Diamonique gem in Headstock(GIMME A F%^!@G BREAK)and for posteraties sake a comemerative CUSTOM engraved 60th anni.neckplate,I got it used weighs a ton SOUNDS like a piano LOVE-IT,the S-1 switch really shines on this bass but is worth-less on the p-bass I own,has the 5 fret a little more dead,did the pickup adj,diff strings,fret-level,bridge work,checked nut depth ETC....,for the hell of it,slapped on the Memphis neck(which fit better but I wont tell :oops: )no dead spot,so I just go around it.THANKS EVERYBODY. Please note,I dont try to sound like a know-it-all,so if I EVER come-off that way I appologize,but I will NOT hesitate for one moment to tell someone if they are a dumbass or just plain full of $@!&,feel free to reciprocate. :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: I think I may know why...
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:20 pm
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Sabre- The MM's were Ernie Ball- 2008- Stingray 4 HH, 2001?- Sterling 4 H, 2010 Sterling HS-(This one was not that bad although the G was a tad weak).

It was explained as an EQ problem that had something to do with the the preamp (circuit board). I searched for ways to make it good- The basic thing was to replace the board with an expensive aftermarket one. It was around 300 and I didn't want to spend the money when I already had 5 really good sounding Fender basses that I use. AND now I had 3 MM's- 2 of which needed the circuit board switch for sure. I was going to be in too deep.

I would read the Ernie Ball forums and guys would post that they took out thier pickups and somehow pushed the pole pieces up from underneath so they would be closer to the string-- I'm not exactly sure they were fixing a weak G string by doing that but it seemed like that is what they were doing.

Things are kind of hush hush about the G string subject on the EB forums. I also read that Leo Fender was aware of this G thing when he was doing MM basses. Maybe it was not a massive problem that effected alot of the basses. I do know that other MM bass players were aware of the issue and some of them had experianced it. I guess I may have just hit the Jackpot of weak G. I really liked the basses and was pumped when I got them.

The thing that really made the G thing apparent was playing the basses at gigs. It was there that the problem became most noticeable. The Stingray was the worst one. I adjusted and fiddled around, posted questions and fiddled around some more. I was not satisfied and didn't want to buy new electronics.

The thing is that in certain situations the weak G may not matter like with popping and slapping at lower volumes. When playing Hi-volume Rock it is a problem when you go to the G and the volume drops off to maybe a little more than half of what it should be.

I was directed to customer support by Sterling Ball when I posted my so called problem. It was not a good subject to post about over there as it suggested something not so positive about an Ernie Ball product. It's a company site and all is regimented to be positive . No making waves. That's okay- it IS thier site and they are allowed to run it that way. I must say it was a little too dictatorish for me.

SO---- I traded the Stingray for a killer mint 2008 USA Jazz Blizzard Pearl , traded the Sterling HS for an 83 all original Precision USA, and the 4H Sterling I sold .


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Post subject: Re: I think I may know why...
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:03 am
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There is no passive mode on any of those basses-- it's all the time active.


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Post subject: Re: I think I may know why...
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:30 am
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brotherdave wrote:


Yes Japanese necks are great and so is the body finish work. The perpetual weak spot with CIJ instruments and the MIJ instruments historically has been the electronics which have never been up to USA standards and to a lesser extent hardware that also isn't as good as USA stuff.


why is that brotherdave? mine was horrible too, electronic wise...the preamp was horrible. Made it easier for me to go EMG then. Hardware was non issue on mine.

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'89 Power Jazz Bass Special-BadAssIII, EMG P/J
Project PBass-EMG PX, Schaller BM Light Tuner
'05 Aerodyne JBass
'06 Spector Legend Custom Neck Through
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Hartke TA5000 w/XL Cabs(210, 410, 115)


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Post subject: Re: I think I may know why...
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:36 pm
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MAYBE they use cheaper or fatter wire or cheap magnets in the pickups OR maybe less windings. I'd like to know also.
Hardware- cheaper also? I mean money is usually the answer to everything.

The big picture= Fender USA #1- Japan#2 - Mexico #3 - that's kind of the way it reads to me.

I've always thought Mex pickups were not good. I do not like Mex tuners just because they don't look right. The paddles are too close to the edge of the headstock. It's just my thing. For whatever reason I don't like little, itsy bitsy pots either. I'm spoiled I guess.

I'm interested in hearing about it .


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Post subject: Re: I think I may know why...
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:45 pm
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PowerJazzBass wrote:
why is that brotherdave? mine was horrible too, electronic wise...the preamp was horrible. Made it easier for me to go EMG then. Hardware was non issue on mine.


A simple short question and as usual from me, a very long answer. But first I have to say this. I feel very sorry for the people of Japan right now. And I feel guilty even wondering how the triple-header Earthquake/Tsunami/Nuclear disaster in Japan has impacted Fender Japan production. The impact upon Fender Japan production is secondary to my sympathy in general for what is probably one of the most industrious cultures on the planet during what is surely going to be a very extended recovery complicated by the massive loss of lives.

I can think of three possible reasons for the seemingly eternal sub-par CIJ electronics. These are just my opinions as to what COULD be the reasons. I could be totally wrong.

First, I'm guessing it is a money thing. They could use same pickups, pots, caps, jacks and preamps as on the USA stuff, but they don't. It would have to be shipped in huge quantity to Japan and shipping is expensive and then on top of the shipping they would probably have to pay import duties of some sort making it even more costly.

Second possible reason? Fender Japan keeps switching manufacturing contractors periodically. Fender Japan's convoluted manufacturing contract history runs something like this. I'm not guaranteeing this is all 100% accurate either. 1980/81 Fender Japan negotiates with Tokai to make full blown Fender instruments. This was a natural choice since Tokai had been making probably the best Fender knockoffs in Asia for about 15 years anyway. 1982: At the last possible second, Fender Japan changed their corporate collective mind and contracts for production instead with FujiGen Gakki. FujiGen Gakki begins making Fender branded instruments marked "Made in Japan" at the back base of the neck. 1992: Dyna Gakki begins handling some production while FujiGen Gakki goes into a long term expansion and reorganization mode building two all new plants, expanding the existing plant and launches their own R&D Department which would eventually spawn the Heartfield line. During this period you see both CIJ on the DYNA GAKKI output and MIJ markings on the FujiGen output. 1996/1997 CIJ is used exclusively on all Fender Japan models because at long last Tokai wins over the primary Fender Japan manufacturing contract from FujiGen Gakki but Tokai continued to subcontract DYNA GAKKI to augment production. During this period I can't tell which contractor made which model since both say CIJ. At some point after this and I'm not sure exactly when, FujiGen gets back in the game crafting some Fender models which are also now marked CIJ instead of FujiGen's old MIJ designation. I believe my 2005/2006 51 P-Bass RI and the STING models are made by Fuji-Gen. When you are moving production around like that, seemingly at the drop of a hat, often little details like caps, pots, jacks and pickups are the least of your worries. Fender Japan seems to seldom make improvements in electronics and I suspect that throughout all the production moves they have been using the same subcontractors for most of the electronics. At least some of the time FujiGen was making most if not all of the pickups. Other times some or most of the pickups were no doubt subcontracted as well. Certainly all the active electronics were outsourced to the low bidder who could meet the minimum specifications.

Third possible reason? Fender Japan indeed DID turn out some cutting edge state of the art guitars and basses of novel concept and amazingly superior electronics in a failed effort called THE HEARTFIELD PROJECT. The Heartfield Project was started by Fuji Gen's R&D people but eventually it evolved into an international consortium of the finest guitar and bass minds on the planet including not only top Fender R&D people like George Blanda but also other people outside Fender that were brought in to help get Heartfield off and running as a winner from day one. Some of these same people previously or later worked for Lakland, G&L, Ibanez, etc. Top people all around. Heartfields certainly were cutting edge instruments with designs that went back to square-one, tossing out EVERYTHING Fender or really anyone else had done before. The goal was to create the best mass produced electric guitars and basses on Earth. The results were amazing sounding and silky playing instruments USA players just didn't feel comfortable with buying for numerous reasons no matter how good they sounded. Chief among the reasons for Fender Japan abandoning the project was a falling US Dollar verses the Yen and eventually the cost in US Dollars escalating to where certain models cost more than a top of the line USA Fender. The Heartfield project proved that Fender Japan could indeed make a bass with cutting edge electronics as many models came with a low impedance XLR output in addition to the traditional phone jack for example. Some of these very worthwhile electronic innovations cost a lot of money to implement. All that is left of the Heartfield Project at FMIC today is the Squier MB-4 Series "Skull & Crossbones" model, which is a low budget knockoff of the Fender Prophecy model which is all black with a white Jolly Roger decal. The Fender Prophecy was a Heartfield Project bass that was branded Fender in the USA. The Squier MB-4's are somewhat hard to find even though they were still listed on the Squier website the last time I looked and you can still get them if you actually look for one.

The Heartfield experience taught something to Fender marketing that they took to heart and we still see the follow through from today. That lesson was that the US market wants Jazzes and Precisions, and they want them to look like they did in the glory days. They want the USA models to be the best sounding, the best playing & the most expensive making them something of an exclusive club. If John Q. Public wants a slick playing speedy necked bass with a scaled down body, then they'll just buy an Ibanez anyway. Even if the Heartfield had more features and better components, it cost over twice as much as a top of the line Ibanez. This lesson was something even OTHER marketing savvy manufacturers took to heart also, which explains why most Lakland basses look like classic Fender Precisions or Jazzes, with the exception of the bridge and headstock.

We still see this "Glory Days Mindset" ruling from Scottsdale across FMIC and it is reflected in the offerings from Corona, Ensenada, all the various Japan manufacturing and even throughout the Squier line, with the exception of the aforementioned MB-4. Squier actually has been mining treasures of the Fender Golden Era all the way back to the 50's with tremendous financial success and glowing owner reviews over the past few years. Since Fender abandoned Heartfield, only ONE really all new Fender bass model has been introduced, the Jaguar. But the Jaguar Bass is actually a bass version of a Fender 6-string introduced in the 1962/1963 model year, and even the Jaguar Bass has been dismissed by the major online dealers as a poor seller compared to the Jazz/Precision models in all price ranges. The Big Block Precision was really an all new concept instrument that could have been given a totally new name but they chose to market it as a Precision. The Fender Big Block P-Bass was actually a fine instrument in it's own right, but didn't look much like or even sound much like a "classic" Fender P-Bass, so bye-bye.

Since so few USA Fenders exist in Japan or in all of Asia for that matter, few there actually know the difference and unless you A/B compare you'll be satisfied with today's CIJ electronics. They look and play great, but they usually do benefit from electronics "help" when compared to USA models.

I too HATE mini-pots.


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Post subject: Re: I think I may know why...
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:26 pm
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Sabre Lane wrote:
Speaking of brotherdave, has anybody seen him since those storms hit NC? :?

Fortunately for my county, we had no damage, other than a few tree limbs and trees taking out utility lines and some downed trees across roads. Most of the really bad stuff happened northeast of here after the front moved through. We actually didn't even get that much rain out of it since it was moving so quickly. I feel very lucky seeing all the video on local TV. Last estimate was 500 homes destroyed. Death count at NC at 22 with more dead in other states. Total dead 40 and more storms expected tomorrow but the worst is not expected to be here either.

There is a Lowe's home improvement store in Sanford, NC that looks like it was nuked. No injuries as the store management and employees herded everyone safely into a back office where store receipts are secured, which miraculously remained intact. The rest of the store looks exploded.

Here the white car was tossed into the front left side of the store.
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Store worker trying to call home to check on his family.
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Due to the quick thinking store management and employees who hustled everyone to the more secure back office area, there were no patients at Lowe's in Sanford, NC for the paramedics to treat!
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The FRONT of the store.
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The RIGHT SIDE of the store.
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This MIRACLE is right up there with Sully Sullenberger's landing in the Hudson! If the store manager hadn't gotten all his people moving instantly to herd all the customers to the back office, who knows what would have happened? They estimate it took under 60 seconds to get everyone into the back room. These are huge home improvement stores and it hit at a peak shopping time on the weekend.


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Post subject: Re: I think I may know why...
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:01 pm
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The Carolinas are a great place and I was sad to hear about such bad storms and death. The South has been getting really bad weather for about a year or so. My wife and I go to Kiawah Island every year and we love it down there. My wife travels to N.C. for business alot. I may end up down there for good some day.


Down with mini pots!!!!!!


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Post subject: Re: I think I may know why...
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:06 pm
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SMALL WORLD! I used to live on Kiawah Island. It is a funny place, the speed limit is posted in kilometers per hour (Kuwait Development Corporation owns the roads.) And it is 25 minutes with a tail wind to a grocery store...and even then it isn't a supermarket. Best SHELLS are on Kiawah Beach though! For good surf I prefer Isle of Palms or even Folly Beach!


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Post subject: Re: I think I may know why...
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:08 pm
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Truth be told, so far as surf is concerned, I just watch now.


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Post subject: Re: I think I may know why...
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:44 am
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We stayed at Isle of Palms for 3 years before we started going down to Kiawah. This is our 14th year we've been there. I can't wait. They built a nice shopping center right where the road splits to go into Kiawah and down to Seabrook. Nice grocery store etc. Now it's not such a long ride up to the "Pig".
Bohicket is my favorite road. We go down now after school is back in. We have the whole beach to oursleves for about a mile each way. Excellent!!!!!


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