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Post subject: '51 Precision Bass pickups
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:17 pm
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I've seen and read some discussions here regarding the different options when it comes to replacements, but I can't help but notice that most of the replacements mentioned are either the Basslines SCPB-3 or the Lindy Fralin split coil. I haven't tried either, and I'm not sure if I will as of yet, but I was wondering what pickups fellow '51 players will recommend.

I've contemplated replacing my '51 pickup, which sounds good, to something with a bit more beef in it for that true vintage sound. Brother Dave's resource page has helped me a lot (thanks for that!), but I'm wondering what are the better options in terms of replacement pickups?

So far, I've looked at the Fralin Single and Split coil versions, but can't seen to find something to compare the tonal capacity of the single version to my stock '51. I've heard the split and liked it, but would really like to know more about the single coil as I haven't found anything online. I've also looked at the SCBP-1, which I've yet to listen to but some say its an improvement over the stock pickup. I've read somewhere that Dusty Hill uses this pickup.

All in all, any recommendations? Any stories on the Fralin single coil? Much appreciated.

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Post subject: Re: '51 Precision Bass pickups
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:12 am
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Garf wrote:
I've seen and read some discussions here regarding the different options when it comes to replacements, but I can't help but notice that most of the replacements mentioned are either the Basslines SCPB-3 or the Lindy Fralin split coil. I haven't tried either, and I'm not sure if I will as of yet, but I was wondering what pickups fellow '51 players will recommend.

I've contemplated replacing my '51 pickup, which sounds good, to something with a bit more beef in it for that true vintage sound. Brother Dave's resource page has helped me a lot (thanks for that!), but I'm wondering what are the better options in terms of replacement pickups?

So far, I've looked at the Fralin Single and Split coil versions, but can't seen to find something to compare the tonal capacity of the single version to my stock '51. I've heard the split and liked it, but would really like to know more about the single coil as I haven't found anything online. I've also looked at the SCBP-1, which I've yet to listen to but some say its an improvement over the stock pickup. I've read somewhere that Dusty Hill uses this pickup.

All in all, any recommendations? Any stories on the Fralin single coil? Much appreciated.


As you know, there are MANY fine aftermarket pickup makers out there. Having said this, I've yet to see any one of them have a "lock" on ALL the types of pickups they make in their product lines as being the definitive, 'end all' in every genre they produce. Or to put it another way, the one who makes the best duplication of vintage humbuckers does not automatically make the best duplication of vintage Fender single coils and vice versa, etc. This segues me to Lindy Fralin.

Although Fralin makes many kinds of pickups, he IMO, has the "lock" on vintage Fender single coils. I've compared his stuff time and time again next to real single coil Fender pickups from the 50s and 60s and the only difference was, his were cosmetically cleaner!

As I say to players all the time, you have to keep in mind that if a pickup sounded like fecal matter 50 years ago, never presume that it is going to sound like a million bucks today just because it aged 50 years. Keep this in mind.

If I'm correctly interpreting what you are thinking, you seem to want a certain vintage Fender sound but with more power where although it has more muscle, the intrinsic tone of the vintage pickup MUST remain unchanged. Surely, this can be achieved but there are certain limiting parameters where once gone beyond, the intrinsic tonality is lost. Your best bet is to e-mail Lindy and discuss your requirements with him. Guaranteed, he'll not only be able to sort it all out for you but come up with exactly what you require; and no, I'm not affiliated with him in any way.

Good luck!

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Post subject: Re: '51 Precision Bass pickups
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:59 am
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Thanks so much for the advice Martian. I've been considering Fralin a lot recently due to the good things I hear about his pickups. I just might e-mail him as soon as I decide on a manufacturer.

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Post subject: Re: '51 Precision Bass pickups
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:14 am
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The SD's I, II & III are a tremendous value because they are mass produced and most people can find one that works well for them. The SD Antiquity is closest to the real vintage pickups in the SD line but costs about as much as a custom made one. The pole placement will be setup like the original Fender for vintage instruments.

If money is no object in your tone quest then move up to the custom pickup shops.

Lindy Fralin makes amazing pickups for sure. Beyond that, Fralin's exchange for tonal reasons policy and long term warranty are unique. He wants you to be 100% satisfied and will re-work or replace your pickup if you don't like the tone. His exchange for tonal reasons policy is part of the reason he is so dominant in the single coil arena. You can get the exact sound you want.

That being said, he is not the only custom pickup winder around. If you discuss what you want with just about any custom winder they can turn out one to your specs. In most cases, "make it sound like a 1968 Telecaster," or "make it sound like a 1954 Precision" is really all you have to say for a single coil pickup that is a close copy.

ALSO no matter what custom maker you choose it is very important to advise them the neck radius of the instrument it is going to be used on as this impacts how to position the pole pieces. For example, how much to raise the "A" pole. If you don't specify your neck radius you'll get the pole positions for the vintage neck radius, and that might not be right for a modern neck which can result in improper string to string output balance. While a compressor can compensate for a string to string output variance it is naturally better to have good string to string output balance in the first place.

Basses with single coil pickups benefit greatly from copper tape shielding of the pickup and control cavity. During a pickup swap is a perfect opportunity to do this. Most first generation P-Basses do not benefit from shielding the back of the pickguard like a Stratocaster would for example, so that step can be skipped. If you use a chrome vintage pickup cover, it can't hurt ground the pickup cover on first generation basses. The original 51's had that but it was discontinued as being of such a slight benefit that it was not cost effective. So while grounding the pickup cover has a tiny benefit, it was part of the original design and I want every noise reducing benefit I can get on a single coil bass.

The split coil wound pickups sound more like a modern P-Bass than a single coil. But on the plus side, they are VERY noise free. Usually they are so noise immune that doing any copper shielding/grounding is totally unnecessary. So if you play in places with lots of RFI, I'd consider a split coil wind. The stock pickup on my 1968 Telecaster Bass sounded magnificent but would actually pickup nearby two-way radios while florescent lighting, neon signs or rotary incandescent light dimmers made it buzz like an idling chainsaw. Passing motorcycles seemed to make it sound like an automatic assault rifle. So I take a single wound bass and a split wound bass to gigs now and use the split wound if I find the RFI environment noisy during sound check. I love the sound of the single coil wound pickups and use that one every time I can.


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Post subject: Re: '51 Precision Bass pickups
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:16 pm
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Garf wrote:
Thanks so much for the advice Martian. I've been considering Fralin a lot recently due to the good things I hear about his pickups. I just might e-mail him as soon as I decide on a manufacturer.


You're quite welcome. Take your time though with your decision.

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Post subject: Re: '51 Precision Bass pickups
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:20 pm
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I shielded my Sting bass. Someone said it may not do any good because the coil doesn't sit down in the body. It did do some good as I have not noticed any hum. I did notice hum before I shielded. Brother Dave is right- shielding is good and works.

I think I'm buying either the SCPB-3 "Quarter Pounder" or the SCPB-2 slightly overwound "Hot" model Duncan. They're only around 60 or so bucks.

I've had the Antiquity SCPB- I put it in a Tele bass. It just didn't do anything for me. It probubly was true to the vintage sound but I wanted more beef less bun. So I wouldn't get that one for my bass. I'm also a little worried about the Quarter pounder being a little "blatty"-- just volume and not enough good tone. I'm not sure on that.

I like how everybody it seems is starting to look at the old Fender single coil basses. The best bass I ever played was a 52 P. :)


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Post subject: Re: '51 Precision Bass pickups
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:32 pm
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stroker vance wrote:
...I'm also a little worried about the Quarter pounder being a little "blatty"-- just volume and not enough good tone. I'm not sure on that.

I like how everybody it seems is starting to look at the old Fender single coil basses. The best bass I ever played was a 52 P. :)


Have a Quarter-Pounder in my number 1. I would say it sounds CLEAR & CLEAN with pleasing brightness and improved sensitivity. My only concern is that the pole pieces are flush. But since I have a 12 inch radius neck on it that works fine. String to string balance might not be as good on a 9.5 or 7.5 inch radius with the "A" and "D" string sounding a tad softer than the "E" and "G." Should be ok though.

There is just as much benefit in shielding the control cavity as in shielding the pickup cavity. Both should be done. As I said before, on the First Generation P-Basses there is no benefit to shielding the back of the pickguard since it is above all the electronics & wiring, so you can cut costs and save time there. About 1 foot of copper self adhesive foil is all you need. I've done this to several basses and always found it beneficial. Shielding allso works great on single-coil Jazzes but on Jazzes shielding the pickguard is beneficial too.


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Post subject: Re: '51 Precision Bass pickups
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:21 pm
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I'm starting to think the Q Pounder may be the way to go. It's kind of expensive to buy the Q and the Hot to experiment . Did you have the 51 made with a 12 radius ?

I have copper tape which works great- no soldering if I overlap it well. It's 1 inch wide- perfect for control cavities .


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Post subject: Re: '51 Precision Bass pickups
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:01 pm
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It actually is more of a 1954, and it has some Fender parts and some non-Fender parts. So it is more of a Frankenbass than anything else. Other people might not like it much, but I do. The neck is one of the non-Fender parts. I have other basses with approximately 12 inch radius necks. I did leave my Fender 51 RI with the stock neck and did the pickup/cap swap on it, replaced the bridge and added covers. The Fender 51 RI has the Lindy Fralin split-coil in it and it is one mean sounding bass. I find a 12" radius easy to set up and very fast to get around on but the 51 RI sounds extra lush. It is often my number 2 at indoor gigs. I don't use it outdoors much.


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Post subject: Re: '51 Precision Bass pickups
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:09 pm
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I have wondered about that ( indoor/outdoor). What thoughts do you have on that? Indoors= specific guitar? Outdoors= because it might rain?? I've been rained on once last year at an outdoor gig. Or do you think one axe sounds better outside than in? Just curious.

I'm thinking the radius on the Sting bass is 7.25 if I'm not mistaken.


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Post subject: Re: '51 Precision Bass pickups
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:38 pm
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Correct on Sting radius! 7.25" which is the same as the 51 RI. Other than the neck inlay and body contouring they are essentially the same instrument.

I don't take my nicer instruments anywhere much. I gig outdoors mainly with cheap instruments that I've modified to sound way better than they sounded stock and I use really good strings and they are setup by a very talented tech who can do that better than I can.

If I'm playing indoors I take a better number 2, but still I don't take a real vintage bass. I have very little invested in number 1. It goes to indoor and outdoor things and I play it the most. It is amazing that a pile of spare parts coalesced into one of my favorite players of all time. My outdoor number 2 is a Korean made passive P/J with WILDE brand pickups which cost five times more than I paid for the bass. I think I paid $35 for that bass on eBay. My indoor number 2 is either an active Korean made bass or the 51 RI.

Playing outside is murder on an instrument. Sunlight, heat, cold, rain, dirt, dust, straw, grass clippings, frisbees, beach balls and lack of security at outdoor gigs are all hazardous to an instrument. It just doesn't make sense to take a chance outside with your best instruments if you can get by with something that is worth far less but just as effective. Theft is also a consideration. Even indoor gigs have hazards, but they are fewer.

I know a bassist in a little country band in a nearby town who gigs everywhere with his only bass, a blonde 1963 Fender Precision. I think he has no idea what it is worth or he would not do that. I've seen him play maybe a dozen times. Finally I asked him why he gigs that bass all the time and he told me that it is the only bass he owns. He transports it in the original case. And people say I'm old school!

Back in the 60's and 70's and into the 80's most players only had one bass. If you wanted a new one, you traded the old one in. It never dawned on me to have more than one until about 1985 when I bought a new one and kept the old one for a backup.

I'm using different amps indoors and outdoors too. Not just different instruments. Outdoors I take the big gig rig. I used to also use this stack indoors. But indoors now I just take a small combo that has an XLR direct out which I patch it into the PA with subs and then lean it back to rest on the PA floor monitor so it is pointing at my head. It makes indoor gigs easier for the sound tech to balance and way easier on me since I have far less gear to move. There are NINE front steps at my house and hauling the gig rig up those steps gets harder and harder and harder at 2 or 3 in the morning.


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Post subject: Re: '51 Precision Bass pickups
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:26 am
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RFI issues haven't troubled me as of yet, but that's mainly cos I haven't tested this bass out in the open, not yet at least. Although it does hum annoyingly as I usually practice in front of my laptop, so that alone is a bit of a nuisance. Shielding looks like a priority that I'll have to look into if I wanna avoid the hum, I guess.

Regardless, the info here helps a lot, so thank you all for the insights. I've pretty much narrowed my choices down to a Fralin split and Basslines SCPB-1. As mentioned, I've heard the Fralin split put into use and I have to agree in saying that its a monster of a pickup, so a lot of my attention is currently towards that pickup. The stock pickup I own is pretty good (which surprised me cos of the issues I've read here and there), but beefing it up is a must for me and my tastes.

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Post subject: Re: '51 Precision Bass pickups
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:31 am
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On indoor outdoor- It was so hot at one of our summer gigs last year my amp just was burnin'. You could have cooked eggs on the heat sinc. I almost always have my "Little Windy" 4" fan going, blowing air into the back of my amp. This time I forgot to turn it on for the 1st set. It was at least 110 on the patio where we were playing . The sinc almost burnt my fingers. I need to take it in and have the bias adjusted etc. I think that makes it run a little cooler. It did last time. The amp with its metal cabinet is inside an SKB plastic case- so I know it is going to get warm.

I had one bass from 1979 to 1996. I remember in 1980 when these guys were going around buying every Fender guitar they could get their hands on. That is the first time I came into contact with the collector thing. I was playing in Huston at the time. Before that everyone I knew basically had one guitar MAYBE two. They were expensive at 300 to 500. You could still get a used car for that back then.

Yeh- everybody gets old and as you do an SVT and 8- 10 inch speakers are hard to lug around. A guy came up to me last night and asked "where's your SVT?" -- yeh right!!!!! I drive a Jeep Wrangler-- so that's out!!! HA!


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Post subject: Re: '51 Precision Bass pickups
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:33 am
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I have a '51 RI with a Quarter Pound in it. Hum has only been a problem when I found myself with only a 10-ft cord in my case. I love the sound, though, especially in contrast to my AV '57. The '51 sounded terrific through a Bassman 400 210, but l traded it for a pair of congas on a stand and now have to "settle" for my Mesa/Boogie Walkabout Scout. For some reason I can get closer to the M/B than the Bassman without hum.

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Post subject: Re: '51 Precision Bass pickups
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:28 pm
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That computer hum is what bugs me. I use a bass at home right in front of the computer because it is patched into it and I rehearse and sometimes record with headphones. The old CRT monitor I use doesn't bother the Fralin split-coil at all even unshielded, but even with shielding I can hear it a tiny bit of hum on the single coil bass when I crank the tone wide open, but it is not nearly as bad as it was prior to shielding though.

One thing about the standard wound Fralin split-coil that I've said before that bears repeating is that while it is super noise free and doesn't require copper shielding, it also doesn't sound much like a first generation P-Bass at all. It is much darker sounding. I sort of wish now that I'd gotten it underwound a tad so it would be brighter. In stock winding it sounds remarkably close to a modern P-Bass and it is really strong, so you could safely underwind it by maybe 5% and be just fine. I prefer the bright airy punch of the single coil. The stock pickup in my '51 RI was OK, but not as good as I remember my Telecaster Bass sounding. That Telecaster roared.


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