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Post subject: New AVRI 62 Precision - Electronic crackling
Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:01 am
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Hi - I wonder if someone could help? I have a brand new AVRI 62 and a really frustrating problem. When I played it in the store before purchase, it was totally silent in terms of electronic buzz, perfect input socket with no crackling etc. Took it straight to rehearsals after purchase and I get a crackling sound when I move around. The source seemed to be the input socket. Tried several cables, problem persisted. Took it straight back to the shop... and total silence. No problem.

I have played it on a few gigs and the problem is there again. Crackling sound. When I gently wiggle to cable, the noise occurs.

It is really frustrating because the problem seems inconsistent. I love the bass but this is driving me mad...

Any suggestions what this could be and how to remedy?

Thanks
Ant


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Post subject: Re: New AVRI 62 Precision - Electronic crackling
Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:33 am
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I had a similar problem a few years back. I thought it might have been a cable issue or even an amp issue (as you, crackled on my amp, not a store's), but eventually I decided to get the wiring on the input jack checked and that was where the issue was*. Simply have it rewired and the problem should go away.

*Mine had one of the two wires snapped off.

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Post subject: Re: New AVRI 62 Precision - Electronic crackling
Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:37 am
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Garf wrote:
I had a similar problem a few years back. I thought it might have been a cable issue or even an amp issue (as you, crackled on my amp, not a store's), but eventually I decided to get the wiring on the input jack checked and that was where the issue was*. Simply have it rewired and the problem should go away.

*Mine had one of the two wires snapped off.


Thanks - I'll get that checked out.


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Post subject: Re: New AVRI 62 Precision - Electronic crackling
Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:35 am
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No problem. Do let me know how that goes, cause another possible reason is the tone circuit.

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Post subject: Re: New AVRI 62 Precision - Electronic crackling
Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:44 pm
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Take your cables, your amp and your bass to the store and see if you can duplicate the issue there. If it turns out to be the instrument they should fix it under warranty as you bought a brand new Fender bass. I'm guessing the cables you have are not compatible with the jack in your new bass and the store's cable is compatible. If that is the case buy a cable like the store's.

I know it is frustrating for you but they can not fix it if they can not duplicate it.

There actually are plugs on some cables that are off-sized. Most of them are Asian made plugs which are either smaller or larger in diameter than a standard Switchcraft USA made 1/4" plug and that can cause problems. Switchcraft jacks are made to work best with Switchcraft plugs or at least one identically sized. The too large ones wear out the jack prematurely while the too small ones do not make good contact and can immediately cause exactly the problem you describe.

If you want to swap out the jack yourself, know that you will be voiding the warranty in the process so if the jack needs to be changed have it done as warranty work.

Since you report it is doing it with several different cables ordinarily I'd say bad solder joint or a defective jack. But in this case where it works flawlessly with the store cable, I can't say that. If it hadn't worked with the store cable then it almost would have to be a bad solder connection at the jack or in fact a defective jack.

I'd check the solder connections too just to be sure . Remove all the pickguard screws then lift the pickguard and carefully inspect all solder connections starting with the two on the jack by giving the each individual wire a little wiggle. If you see or feel any movement at the jack lug or any other solder connection then simply re-solder that connection. If you can't find any bad or questionable solder connections anywhere then I'd consider replacing the jack with a new Switchcraft jack to see if that cleared the issue.

The basic USA open circuit mono Switchcraft jacks are usually good for decades of normal use but the military specification model of the mono open circuit Switchcraft jack are a heavier duty version which makes them even more reliable and they only cost about $2 more, but the military spec ones are harder to find. Defective new Switchcraft jacks are extremely rare, but it is conceivable that you could have one that is borderline or slightly out of spec.


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Post subject: Re: New AVRI 62 Precision - Electronic crackling
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:51 am
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Thanks brotherdave - I appreciate you taking the time to go to this length of explanation. On the cable side of things, I have used Fender cables (even the custom shop whirlwind / fender cable I got with my CS 64 NOS Jazz). Problem persists with all.

Also when I say its brand new - it's bought in February (21st) 2011, which I consider brand new and I guess at under two months the store would too for warranty purposes?

A question though. If I lift the pickguard just to check the solder joints, will I void warranty by doing so?

Thanks very much for your input so far. Most appreciated.
Ant


brotherdave wrote:
Take your cables, your amp and your bass to the store and see if you can duplicate the issue there. If it turns out to be the instrument they should fix it under warranty as you bought a brand new Fender bass. I'm guessing the cables you have are not compatible with the jack in your new bass and the store's cable is compatible. If that is the case buy a cable like the store's.

I know it is frustrating for you but they can not fix it if they can not duplicate it.

There actually are plugs on some cables that are off-sized. Most of them are Asian made plugs which are either smaller or larger in diameter than a standard Switchcraft USA made 1/4" plug and that can cause problems. Switchcraft jacks are made to work best with Switchcraft plugs or at least one identically sized. The too large ones wear out the jack prematurely while the too small ones do not make good contact and can immediately cause exactly the problem you describe.

If you want to swap out the jack yourself, know that you will be voiding the warranty in the process so if the jack needs to be changed have it done as warranty work.

Since you report it is doing it with several different cables ordinarily I'd say bad solder joint or a defective jack. But in this case where it works flawlessly with the store cable, I can't say that. If it hadn't worked with the store cable then it almost would have to be a bad solder connection at the jack or in fact a defective jack.

I'd check the solder connections too just to be sure . Remove all the pickguard screws then lift the pickguard and carefully inspect all solder connections starting with the two on the jack by giving the each individual wire a little wiggle. If you see or feel any movement at the jack lug or any other solder connection then simply re-solder that connection. If you can't find any bad or questionable solder connections anywhere then I'd consider replacing the jack with a new Switchcraft jack to see if that cleared the issue.

The basic USA open circuit mono Switchcraft jacks are usually good for decades of normal use but the military specification model of the mono open circuit Switchcraft jack are a heavier duty version which makes them even more reliable and they only cost about $2 more, but the military spec ones are harder to find. Defective new Switchcraft jacks are extremely rare, but it is conceivable that you could have one that is borderline or slightly out of spec.


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Post subject: Re: New AVRI 62 Precision - Electronic crackling
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:50 pm
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UPDATE
Checked solder joints. All look good - to input socket and tone...

To explore brotherdave's cable jack / diameter feedback, I tried the crappy (I say crappy as I swear its only 4 bloody feet long), gray cable that Fender supplies as an accessory with the AVRI 62 PBass.

No crackling!! I'll try at again at rehearsal through my main Mesa Walkabout Scout, but if it is still silent through that, then it could indeed be the input jack diameter differential.

Will report back...


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Post subject: Re: New AVRI 62 Precision - Electronic crackling
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:24 pm
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I have noticed the jack size problem and I am really glad to hear about it in that I'm not the only one this is happening to!


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Post subject: Re: New AVRI 62 Precision - Electronic crackling
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:01 am
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Report update. Rehearsed last night with the accessory cable that came with the bass. Perfect silence. I think brotherdave nailed it with the jack diameter advice!

Thanks brotherdave.


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Post subject: Re: New AVRI 62 Precision - Electronic crackling
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:11 pm
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Hi again,

It concerns me that it does it with a Whirlwind/Fender cable. Those plugs are correctly sized. I've found the Fender branded cables made by Whirlwind (sometimes badged Fender Electrovolt) to be reliable with all sorts of instruments. I've bought at least 6 or 7 of them. While not the greatest cables ever made for tonal clarity they are reliable and I still use them for home practice and rehearsals. Gave several to my son. Only ever had one of them go bad.

If those cables work flawlessly with other instruments but not your new one then I might say the jack is out of specified size or at least borderline and should be replaced. Call it temperamental if you like, but something with it just isn't right.

Take the instrument in question and your cables to the dealer and duplicate the issue. If your cables work well with other instruments in the store then it should work with yours. I think you could then see if they would replace the jack.

You don't run into something like this often but usually when you do replacing the jack will clear it up. If it won't work with a Fender branded cable then something is certainly amiss and should be made right.

The short gray case-candy cables do sound pretty good for a little while. That is because they are short. Eventually all molded connector cables like those will go bad. Sometimes it doesn't take long either.

Back in the 70's, curly-cords were very popular. They looked like a long telephone receiver cord and in truth sounded about like one too. Those things went bad in about 2 months tops since they were molded on plugs too. I must have bought 15 of them before I said ENOUGH.

Besides the Fender/Whirlwind cables for non-critical things, I use for various purposes, cables by Elixir, Monster Bass, M.I.T. Ripcord Bass (now discontinued), Mogami and Rapco. Of all of them the M.I.T. Ripcord sounds best with a passive bass and beats the rest. Hate that they are discontinued. Well anyway, all of the other cables I use for gigs are good ones to try. I can't tell much difference between any of my better quality cables except the M.I.T. Ripcord Bass which jumps out at you as clearly the winner in the sound department. The Monster Bass and the Elixir are really thick and neither likes to lay neatly. The Rapco is the least expensive cable I use in tone critical situations. I have had this one Rapco cable since about 1981 and it is still going!


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Post subject: Re: New AVRI 62 Precision - Electronic crackling
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:16 pm
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Hey BrotherDave, thanks for the shout-out on the RipCord, that was a project of me and my father's (Bruce Brisson). Glad to see they are still being used and enjoyed. I have several private stock around the house. :)


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Post subject: Re: New AVRI 62 Precision - Electronic crackling
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:23 pm
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LawDaddy wrote:
Hey BrotherDave, thanks for the shout-out on the RipCord, that was a project of me and my father's (Bruce Brisson). Glad to see they are still being used and enjoyed. I have several private stock around the house. :)


You are talking about the M.I.T. Ripcord cables with the two inline network blocks that were packaged like this?
Image

If so that was a very worthwhile project indeed. I liked it so much I even kept the package pictured above. I have an item watch setup on eBay to find at least one more 20 footer with a 90 degree angle plug on the instrument end. A used one popped up in Australia last autumn. Had to bid low due high international shipping. Otherwise nothing has popped up since.

I had hoped the Elixir cable would be as good since it cost nearly as much. While the Elixir isn't as good it is still a really good cable for bass and I use it from my pedal board to the amp input. Once the signal gets pumped up by the pedals which cable you are using does not seem to be as tone critical. So the Ripcord always connects Number 1 to the pedal board. With an active bass the benefit of the Ripcord isn't as obvious but it makes a passive instrument jump right out of the speaker and sound better than any cable I've ever used. I understand there were also Ripcord speaker cables for guitar amps and thought about trying one of those but they were phone plugs not Speakon connectors and I'm partial to Speakons whenever I can use them.


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Post subject: Re: New AVRI 62 Precision - Electronic crackling
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:39 pm
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That's it. I designed those in the '90s with my Dad. MIT is his High End audio company. I worked for him after college when I got my engineering degree, prior to going to law school. We never quite busted out in the market, may have been a little ahead of our time. The bass players sure loved them. Ross Valory of Journey fame was a great endorser; spending a NAMM show in the booth with him was priceless! I think Jack Casady still uses his.

I've talked to my Dad about doing a limited updated run, we'll see...


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Post subject: Re: New AVRI 62 Precision - Electronic crackling
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:07 pm
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Thanks for the kind thoughts, guys. We really put our heart and soul (and a pile of cash) into the Ripcords.


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Post subject: Re: New AVRI 62 Precision - Electronic crackling
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:08 am
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A little bird told me M.I.T. cables are used at Skywalker Ranch too.

Since mine is getting on in years, better put me down for two BASS twenty footers with a 90 degree plug on the instrument end, two GUITAR twenty footers with straight plugs on both ends and if you ever do bass speaker cables with speakon/neutrik plugs I'll take two shorter ones around 3 feet long I figure I'd better stop now as I'm probably out of money!


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