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Post subject: Black Label Fender P
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:53 am
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I have recently acquired a Fender P with the logo in black states made in Mexico. I have heard that these are overstock American necks and bodies shipped to Mexico and fitted with mexican pups bridges and tuners. Is there any thing special about this black label the guys who work on guitars at the local shop have never seen or heard of them and they have been in business for 30 years plus. Any info would be appreciated.


KEEPIN IT LOW,

LOWDOWNBASS24


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Post subject: Re: Black Label Fender P
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:10 pm
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Brotherdave any info on these Guitars


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Post subject: Re: Black Label Fender P
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:44 pm
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These black headstock logos which appear silk screened on, painted on, whatever....were on the earlier Ensenada production. They are not decals so far as I can tell. This was the same logo application process also used on Squiers during this same period. This led to a lot of confusion with people calling all of these black logo instruments SQUIERS when they were actually full blown MIM Fenders. Since the Squiers had the large black FENDER logo on the headstock, the only difference between them and the Squier Series was a small scripting stating "SQUIER SERIES" similar to today's small "DELUXE SERIES" scripting in size and location on the headstock of current production Deluxe Series instruments. Another confusing thing was that both the full blown FENDER and the SQUIER SERIES used Stratocaster knobs instead of traditional P-Bass/J-Bass knobs and both said MIM.

Unfortunately many people found ways to UNDETECTABLY remove the "SQUIER SERIES" scripting as if it was never there. Others just clumsily scraped it off with their pocket knife which is easily detectable. The SQUIER SERIES woods, hardware and electronics were all inferior to the full blown Fender of course. Frankly though, it is hard to tell the difference unless you know what to look for. The serial is a dead giveaway.

Here's the deal on the early MIM necks/bodies. You sort of heard wrong. Yes, they were cut in USA necks and bodies but were not OVERSTOCK USA necks and bodies. The fact is that there were no CNC machines in Ensenada for a good while after the plant started production. There is now of course, but not then. So all necks and bodies (even MIM Squier) were cut at Corona and trucked down "Highway 1" to Ensenada for the rest of the production process. Once Fender felt the investment was justified they purchased CNC machinery for Ensenada. These are VERY pricey machines and Fender wisely wanted to make sure this plant was going to work out long term before buying them. Of course it did work out very well long term.

Fender grades neck and body blanks with careful inspection of each blank. The wood blanks are separated into various grades and always have been. The best grade of wood blanks go to Custom Shop, next best grades to various USA production levels. The lower grade woods went to MIM production. So the wood was cut in the USA but was certainly not "overstock" USA grade wood in the necks and bodies that were sent to Ensenada.

I do not know if the Squier Series wood blanks during this time were the very lowest grade or if they ordered cheaper blanks specially for the Squier Series.


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Post subject: Re: Black Label Fender P
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:20 pm
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Thanks Brother Dave

Fender black label no sight of squier series on headstock no sign of tampering its a full blown mexican.Yes it had stratocaster knobs replaced yesterday with black knurled knobs also dropped emg's in her yesterday so she is a totally awesome sounding bass now. Reason I asked the neck is so straight and silky smooth to play just thought MAYBE. Don' know if I'll do any more modding probably not onto my next project. Why the black label? Is it that I now have a BLACK LABEL SOCIETY bass? LOL

THANKS AGAIN


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Post subject: Re: Black Label Fender P
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:40 pm
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Some more info.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/mexica ... ss-674840/

Have you googled "Fender black label bass"? :)


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Post subject: Re: Black Label Fender P
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:30 pm
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This is the info I found they are called the "Traditional Series"

You might have heard of mexican made Fender guitars with a black headstock decal, sometimes associated with some mystery Squier Series made in Mexico. It’s true that there actually was a “Squier Series” that was made by Fender in Mexico and featured a black decal on the headstock, but not all mexican made Fender guitars with such a black label were part of that very “Squier Series”. Since there appears to be a lot of confusion and half-knowledge about these guitars out there, I decided to do some research on my own.

The black label was used by Fender Mexico for a limited time only between 1993 and 1998. It can be found exclusively on the rather short lived mexican “Traditional” and “Squier” series for the Telecaster, Stratocaster and Precision Bass. Usually, Squier is to Fender what Epiphone is to Gibson. In this very case, the use of the name “Squier” had nothing to do with the actual Squier brand, as the series was named “Squier Series”, but it was by all means a Fender series, not a Squier series. The keyword is “series”, not “Squier”. The regular mexican “Standard” series was available too at the time, but it already featured the same silver-ish logo that is still used for it today. However, between 1993 and 1998, both labels (the black AND the silver-ish one) were used for mexican made Fender guitars, but for (slightly) different guitars.

The guitars with the black label consisted mostly of overstock american made Fender necks and bodies. The parts were shipped to Mexico for assembly with mexican made pickups and far eastern hardware and electronics. The overall quality of these guitars turned out to be below the Squiers made in Japan and Korea, whose production came to an end around the time the mexican made guitars with the black label surfaced, yet above Squiers made in China and Indonesia, whose production had not yet begun at the time. The guitars ended up on the american and european market for just about as much as a guitar from the regular “Standard” series would cost at the time.

Some (not all!) of the guitars were sold for a few bucks less as they came with 1-ply pickguards and hardware of slightly lesser quality. Those guitars (and those only!) had an additional smaller “Squier Series” label on front of the headstock, right were the artist models have the artist’s signature. Though some owners probably sanded off their “Squier Series” label, it is not true that all guitars with a black label had a “Squier Series” label in the first place. Most guitars with the black label featured tuners and bridges of decent quality as well as 3-ply pickguards. These guitars did not have the additional “Squier Series” label and were called the “Traditional Series”, which was stated nowhere on the headstock but the guitars were listed, advertised and sold as such.

The “Traditional Series” can be considered the slightly better but the “Squier Series” sure is the more obscure. At the end of the day, there really is not that much difference between the two. The most significant difference can be found on the Telecaster. The Telecaster from the “Traditional Series” had the traditional through-body stringing, while the Telecasters from the “Squier Series” were Top Loaders with different bridges, saddles and no string holes in the back.

The guitars from that very “Squier Series” are official and genuine Fender guitars like any mexican made Fender guitar regardless, and if you have a mexican made Fender Telecaster, Stratocaster or Precision Bass with a black label and a serial number beginning with MN3, MN4, MN5, MN6, MN7 or MN8, you have a genuine Fender guitar – with or without a small “Squier Series” label.


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Post subject: Re: Black Label Fender P
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:26 pm
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Again, the "TRADITIONAL SERIES" were not OVERSTOCK USA bodies and necks. All bodies and necks were cut in Corona then. But the quality of wood was NOT the same same as USA instruments. They cherry-picked the good stuff for USA and Custom Shop and still do. The "SQUIER SERIES" MIM instruments were not actually Squier brand. At this time Squiers were being made in Japan and Korea. The MIM Fender Squier Series came with Fender Hang Tags and manual just like the other MIM Fenders. There was about 40 dollars difference between MIM Standard and MIM Traditional in those days. There was about 80 dollars difference between MIM Standard and Squier Series.


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Post subject: Re: Black Label Fender P
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:59 pm
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Thanks for that extra info BrotherDave I enjoy knowing as much about the bass as possible and you are a great help. Love the way You serve the BASS community.

THANKS AGAIN


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