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Post subject: Help with vintage sound...
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:38 pm
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Any tips / ideas of how to get this sound out of my current set up (Fender American Standard P and Fender Rumble 100w amp)? Would an effect pedal/box be the trick and if so, what is it called? Thanks for any help!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VkNmcjPHRE

BTW...the action starts at about :55


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Post subject: Re: Help with vintage sound...
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:56 pm
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Tech 21 Sansamp Bassdriver. I'm completely sold on it and if there's a Guitar Center near you they carry them for you to try. The company makes lots of good stuff, research and try as many as you can before you buy.


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Post subject: Re: Help with vintage sound...
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:59 pm
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Thanks so much-GC in my town and I will check it out!


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Post subject: Re: Help with vintage sound...
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:53 am
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If you want a vintage sound out of your American Standard P-bass. Just play it though an amp that is setup with the tone controls flat and use your fingers to play the bass.

No pedals are required.

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If thine enemy wrong thee, buy each of his children a drum.


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Post subject: Re: Help with vintage sound...
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:49 am
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Don't forget flatwound strings, an essential component of old-school sound. Be generous with the mids on the EQ, roll off the highs a little. Try rolling off the tone on the bass as well.


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Post subject: Re: Help with vintage sound...
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:54 am
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What LawDaddy said!

Mind you, if it's that crunchy overdrive you're looking for, a bass driver might well help. If you want to give it a try, the Behringer BDI21 is very close in sound to the Sansamp, and a LOT cheaper. Well worth trying. If you like it, keep it - or upgrade to the Sansamp later if you need to. Makes a cracking active DI as well, which is what I mostly use mine for - and it has never let me down in over 2 years' regular use.


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Post subject: Re: Help with vintage sound...
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:35 pm
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Thanks for all the input, you guys are the best.

I have been playing with my fingers and normally keep the tone knob rolled off. I love the sound of my Fender P as is but wanted that vintage "growl" (not sure how else to explain it).


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Post subject: Re: Help with vintage sound...
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:03 pm
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Don't overlook compression. Vintage bass tones were played through either tube amps or through tube preamp/direct boxes patched into the recording console. Tubes inherently add a bit of compression and smoothness until you overdrive them and then they get all crunchy. While the Tech 21 is a good tone tool and I use one (the Tech 21 NYC SansAmp Bass Driver Deluxe specifically), it is still nearly impossible to nail vintage tones in a solid state amp unless you buy one that features tube emulation and even those fall short.

With a solid state amp you'll probably find that a combination of a SansAmp, flatwound strings played finger style and OPTICAL COMPRESSION will get you far closer. Or you could buy a tube head and you wouldn't need the outboard effects. Your call.

MarkBass, Aphex, Demeter, EBS and BBE all make good optical compressors. The Mark Bass has a tube in it and sounds wonderful but requires a special power supply so I use the Aphex. The Aphex isn't perfect either, but my pedal board power supply runs it, so for simplicity it is the one I use. OPTICAL compression is vital to smooth natural and vintage sounding bass in my opinion.


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Post subject: Re: Help with vintage sound...
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:47 pm
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What Br. Dave said - UNLESS your amp happens to include an optical compressor! Mine does, and so do a few others.

On the SansAmp and Behringer BDI21 question, check out these A/B comparisons http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=294957. People's guesses on that thread are pretty illuminating, too :D


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Post subject: Re: Help with vintage sound...
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:25 am
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PVTele wrote:
What Br. Dave said - UNLESS your amp happens to include an optical compressor! Mine does, and so do a few others.

On the SansAmp and Behringer BDI21 question, check out these A/B comparisons http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=294957. People's guesses on that thread are pretty illuminating, too :D


I also have a Behringer BDI21 which I bought prior to the Tech 21 Bass Driver Deluxe. It is perfectly adequate for home headphone rehearsal and demo recording. I keep it set up for "homework" patched direct into my mixer and then patch the mixer into my Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card on my recording computer most of the time.

The battery clip on the BDI21 broke as 9-volt clips tend to do. So "in Line style" I soldered in a replacement from Radio Shack and wrapped the connections with electrical tape.

It also is not very versatile on the fly. I like the 6 different presets on the Tech 21 NYC Bass Driver Deluxe much better for gigging. The real Bass Driver also makes CLEANER recordings.

I also have a Line 6 Low Down Studio 110 with built in compression emulation based on the Universal Audio LA-2 compressor which is a tube/optical design. The Line 6 Studio 110 compressor circuit really doesn't have the response of a real LA-2 (which I'm very familiar with) and I still prefer the Aphex, as to me the Aphex Punch Factory sounds more like a truly transparent vintage compressor does and I have slightly more control over it's function. The important thing about an optical compressor is that it does not KILL the bass.

A VERY good example of that good bass tone with the Aphex compressor and the SansAmp is a project I'm currently working on, but I'd better not let anyone hear it quite yet since it isn't published yet. However about a year ago I worked on the stage production of the film "FOOTLOOSE" called "FOOTLOOSE: THE MUSICIAL" which had about 60 pieces. I recorded a bass demo of the showcase bass piece using the original Broadway recording to see if I could get it correct. While I got close, it was not quite perfect. However the bass part I recorded does have what I consider to be a good example of 60's vintage tone played 80's/90's style. This is a VERY difficult show and if I'd seen the music before agreeing to do it I would have walked the other way. About every piece in this show is way more complicated than the film soundtrack of the same songs. This piece gets wacky in a few places. BUT NO MATTER HOW BAD I PLAY IT, YOU HAVE TO ADMIT, IT IS A GOOD TONE. Even on an MP3 the bass sounds ok tonewise! It sounds way better on the .WAV file though. I hope I NEVER see this music again. The conductor collected and shredded all the sheet music when the last performance closed so I probably won't. Click the link below and allow time for it to load up.

http://www.brotherdave.com/audio/letshearitfortheboybassdemo.mp3


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Post subject: Re: Help with vintage sound...
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:15 am
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brotherdave wrote:
YOU HAVE TO ADMIT, IT IS A GOOD TONE


Good enough to eat :D That's exactly what we've all been talking about.

I freely admit the Behringer isn't very versatile on the fly. Myself, I don't need it to be. Typically, I use it in church, where I take an XLR out from the BDI21 to the submixer board, and a 1/4" to a little Hartke combo amp as a personal monitor. I've my core tone set up on the BDI21, and anything else I do with my fingers and the bass' tone control.

For a covers band, or anything like that, having the presets alone probably justifies the extra cost of the SansAmp.

I know that "if I'd seen the music first I'd have walked" feeling - reminds me of once letting myself in for playing Eric Coates' "Dam Busters March", among other things, at an outdoor gig. Well, it was an experience :wink: Oddly enough, people seemed to enjoy it...


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