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Post subject: *** COUNTRY/VINTAGE TONE FROM MY MIA 'P' BASS ***
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:56 am
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Hi everyone,

I'm playing an American Standard 'P' with La Bella FS flats through a Littlemark III and a Traveller 151 P rear ported cab.

I'm really struggling to get the sound I want: the full, warm, deep, well-rounded 60's/70's Country Music thing you hear on the likes of Kris Kristofferson/Glen Campbell/Charlie Pride, etc.

The rear-ported 15" Traveller is very punchy and very clear, but not really close to what I want.

My question is 2-fold really.

I've got the chance to buy the now discontinued Markbass Standard Front Ported 151 HF or, alternatively, buy an altogether different make of 15" cab to go with my Littlemark.

Can anybody tell me whether there will be any great difference between the sound of my Traveller and the Standard 151 HF and whether it will be worth the investment?

The 2nd part of my question is really whether I would be better off getting a completely different cab (either 1x15" or 2x15") from someone like Mesa or Ampeg or Aguilar, etc? If so, what would serve me best for this warm, full, rounded, deep Country 'old-school', vintage sound I want?

Thanks everyone.


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Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:19 am
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For everyone's info REDLAWMAN contacted me direct and I gave him pretty much the same info as follows.

He has the right bass and right strings.

15's ruled during the era he's attempting to emulate. These cabs had no horns or tweeters, just 15's. (18 inch bass cab speakers didn't come along until later.)

They used TUBE heads mostly for performing and recording back then. Sometimes they recorded direct and compressed the crap out of the bass then dropped the level in the mix and rolled off the highs. Actually some recordings then were done with miked 10 inch speakers though!

The main problem is that it is next to impossible to get a layered tube sound from a solid state amp but thanks to technology you can get close if you are willing to give it a try...and throw enough dollars at it.

The MarkBass amps with a tube pre may sound warmer and that extra pricey all tube MarkBass might just nail it. But probably you are looking at tube emulation or a vintage Fender/Ampeg/Sunn/Gibson/National/Supro tube amp and 15 inch speaker(s) plus COMPRESSION. An optical compressor will help mimic the compressive qualities of a real tube head while the emulation adds thickness. For emulation something like a Tech 21 NYC Bass Driver can help, but frankly is difficult to set JUST RIGHT so it will take some time to dial in. Don't expect to take the Bass Driver out of the box and find the right setting in 5 minutes.

So if you want to keep the Class D MarkBass head, I recommend adding an optical compressor into a tube emulation pedal and then adding one or more 15's and be sure to turn the horns OFF or all the way down on all the cabs. (There were no horns in bass cabs back then.) Just barely crack the instrument's tone control from full bass. Play with your FINGERS or with an extra-extra-extra thick pick like the Jim Dunlop BIG or the really thick proprietary picks Carol Kaye sells.

Most guitar compressors are all wrong for bass as they seem to suck the life out of it, but the Demeter Compulator and Aphex Punch Factory optical compressor pedals both work extremely well with bass and I've used both of them. I've not tried the MarkBass compressor pedal but it is getting good reviews from others and costs about the same as the Demeter, plus the MarkBass pedal has a tube in it to add thickness and was designed strictly for bass so it would definitely be worth a look to see which of the three you like best.

The BIG "What I don't like about the MarkBass bass compressor at first glance" is TOO MANY KNOBS, which is why I won't ever buy one. Both the Aphex and the Demeter have only TWO KNOBS. That's proven to me to be ENOUGH knobs for a bass compressor.

The Aphex sounds great, has a handy LED meter for setting up the compression level...but in all honestly it does have one problem. The Aphex has LESS than stellar build quality because it has plastic jacks so I figure eventually that it is gonna break. Even with the plastic jacks I still love the sound and versatility of the Aphex and will continue to use the Aphex Punch Factory over the Demeter. When it breaks I will buy another Aphex.

I've had a buttload of compressor pedals and rack compressors in 42 years. BOTH the Aphex and the Demeter optical units are extraordinary and probably the best two I ever used. But switching up instruments as I do, I appreciate the LED meter on the Aphex and find that one little feature something which I don't wanna give up. The Aphex also has an XLR out for direct PA/Recording and will run off any power source including phantom power from a mixer, so long as you use the XLR connector. The Aphex's crappy jacks always left me puzzled, but I don't worry about them so much because it lives on my pedal board and stays plugged in all the time so the jacks won't be tearing up or wearing out. Constantly plugging and unplugging the Aphex might create issues. (I have a Whirlwind Selector A/B/Y optical switcher pedal in front of the Aphex so I plug instruments into the switch and not into the Aphex. If you switch up instruments during gigs, you can do a lot worse than the Whirlwind Selector pedal and I also recommend it and love Whirlwind's EXCELLENT support.)

The set up should be INSTRUMENT, COMPRESSOR PEDAL, TUBE EMULATOR PEDAL. Then take the XLR OUT from the EMULATOR PEDAL to feed THE HOUSE PA and take the amp out FROM THE EMULATOR and feed your AMPLIFIER'S POWER-AMP-INPUT, BYPASSING YOUR OWN AMP'S PREAMP IF at all POSSIBLE. THEN feed the AMP OUTPUT to your SPEAKER ARRAY.

If recording, take the XLR out from the Emulator pedal to the MIXER input on one track PLUS mike the cab up close with an SM-7B or similar ballsy mike on a second track. Record the direct feed and the cab mike on separate tracks and set balance between the two for best tone in post. Also an ambient microphone such as a Royer ribbon mic or RCA 44 or 77DX about 10 to 12 feet away from the amp to capture room ambiance recorded onto a THIRD track can add a ton of tonal options. It is amazing all the different tones you can get in a mix when you have three vantage points to work with. I think the close cab should be the most prominent of the three but the truth usually will lie in a mix between two or three vantage points. Rarely will a direct out standing alone sound truly vintage.

The MarkBass Little Mark is a great amp for a lot of musical styles, but no matter what 15 inch cab you use with one, emulating 60's country tone without help from outboard components isn't one of the styles that head is capable of doing. I'm not picking only on MarkBass because the same could be said for about any class D amp such as Eden or the Ashdown solid state stuff. You really need a tube head of some sort or tube emulation plus optical compression to get that lush thick tone.

I'd also consider an instrument cap swap to a less harsh cap and for mid 50's to mid 60's bass tone, that is a easiest to get in this day and time with a Sprague 0.047 200V Vitamin Q paper in oil capacitor in place of the Poly or Ceramic tone cap your instrument has now.

If all that fails, I don't know what else to tell you to try!


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Post subject:
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:26 am
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:30 pm
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Excellent advice. Old school tube amps -> 15" cabs is the way to go.

I would add that the cap is indeed important, and is a cheap and easy start.


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