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Post subject: To Ken
Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:50 am
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Ken, On "Golden Lady", Stevie is playing synthesizer bass with "Tonto's Expanding Headband" synthesizer setup. Because Stevie was enjoying the new found freedom from being controlled artistically by the "Motown Machine" he was doing all the tracks himself except for guitars and horns and sometimes he would do his version of horns. The only tracks I played on with Stevie was "You Are The Sunshine Of My Life, All Is Fair In Love, and the Sesame Street tracks of 1972. Thanks
Scott


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Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: bass
Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:32 am
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I think scott has a valid point here.I mean how fender doesnt manage to mention legends like Carol Kaye and Chuck Rainey anywhere here has to be just wrong!!


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Post subject: This is a marketing platform.
Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:59 pm
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melaman wrote:
I think scott has a valid point here.I mean how fender doesnt manage to mention legends like Carol Kaye and Chuck Rainey anywhere here has to be just wrong!!


True if you had a goal of building a website devoted to extolling the accomplishments of first-call session bassists or a website that detailed the history of recorded electric bass in the 20th century you certainly would have to include both and many others. However the goal of the Fender website is to SELL basses. The corporate site is not a musicological encyclopedia. It is a marketing platform.

There are two problems which permanently preclude both Kaye and Rainey from inclusion as Fender endorsing artists and this applies to some others as well.

1. They haven't touched a Fender bass in public for decades upon decades. I'm not even sure exactly when Chuck Rainey actually played Fender basses but pretty sure he moved away from the Fender flock a very long time ago. Kaye was a Fender endorsing artist at one time. The official websites of those two do not even link to Fender but rather to Ibanez, Aria, Sadowsky and Ken Smith. The website of Carol Kaye has had some less than flattering things to say about Fender basses.

2. AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT! The vast majority of basses sold are selected by younger people who don't know who Carol Kaye or Chuck Rainey actually are. They never heard of them. Therefore having Kaye or Rainey around as endorsing artists would be a non-plus to the marketing people. Kids don't want a Fender '62 RI P-Bass because it is close to what Carol Kaye played, but they want what the guy in their favorite band has or at least one that looks similar to the one that guy in their favorite band plays because to them that player is cool.

Anyone that knows ANYTHING about marketing knows whether you are selling toothpaste, cereal, refrigerators, insurance, tires, soda pop, beer, new cars...or guitars...that you have to get them young! Fender's marketing does this by featuring and signing endorsing artists that the young aspiring players will know and to which they can relate. The goal is to build brand loyalty while they are young. It is just a basic marketing philosophy. "Get a customer young and you've got a customer for life." And the marketing people at FMIC are not ignorant of that theory.

This theory works too. I bought my first bass, a Fender in 1968 when I was 14. I have of course bought many basses since. It took me until 2004 to actually break down and buy one of any other brand! I have bought more Fender's since 2004 too. But my point is that for 36 years my buying pattern was LOCKED into buying Fender basses and I didn't even consider anything else!

There are other first-call session bassists who never get much mention here either like Yamaha endorsing Nathan East who seems to be everywhere, and Bob Babbitt who faithfully carries on the Motown groove on a Fender P-Bass. There are many others but those two come to mind as being talented and relatively "busy" and yet you don't hear much about them here either.

I bet if you go to the website of any other guitar maker and search on Jimi Hendrix or Eric Clapton or David Gilmour or Sting or Victor Bailey you won't find anything about them there either. You might find some reference to Clapton on the Martin site but only because he plays a Martin acoustic.


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Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:42 pm
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All valid points Brother Dave. I still vote for a John Entwistle tribute, "Frankenstein", slab bass in pink with a maple neck.


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Post subject:
Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:53 pm
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oxfan wrote:
All valid points Brother Dave. I still vote for a John Entwistle tribute, "Frankenstein", slab bass in pink with a maple neck.


Here is the bass I think you are talking about. Looks like Fiesta Red. Is that the one?

Image

It is amazing how many players he influenced. Also amazing is how many instruments he accumulated. Obviously he liked that one a lot since he played it for so long.


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Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:13 pm
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He always wanted a pink bass and the Precision was his baby. He created "Frankenstein" from numerous basses and a Jazz Bass bridge. The body was originally from one of the "slab" basses only sold in England, he had it refinished in the pink or salmon or fiesta color. Lots of different ideas as to what it really was.

"Frankenstein" was used on most of the hits up to and including the original Quadrophenia.

Seems that Jon was fickle, he dumped the Precisions for other loves.

Today was his birthday.

R.I.P. Ox.


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Post subject:
Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:14 pm
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To summon what I believe BrotherDave is telling us is the Fender website’s only function should be to sell instruments and not relay on a continous page or section besides the “Hall Of Fame”, all of the rich history Fender instruments have given to the world of music which as LawDaddy said, would be a humongous list of songs. And another perk for Fender is, even though many known great bass players have gone to other instruments(money endorsements mainly because the player wouldn’t have chosen the brand without some type of perk) the one thing only Fender can probably proclaim, especially for basses is, all know bass players own or have owned a Fender bass with no perk or bribery necessary. The other manufacturers cannot make that claim. BrotherDave is also saying I think, that for young players who idolize the new young bands, hopefully the bass player in these bands is “a young Jamerson” and not a “repeat the same eighth note over and over” player who with a big swing of his arm, plucks a big whole note as he jumps in the air with a look of victory. Because if the latter player I described, “becomes the standard”, these young listeners will get bored, wise up as is already happening, toss these groups aside and look for the previous standard set by “the Jamersons and company”. So if Brother Dave is correct, maybe Fender should go all out and promote all the new bands and groups and sell lots of instruments. Maybe there will be hope for the music world after all and blogs like this will become the real teachers for the new searchers. Later
Scott Edwards


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Post subject:
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:15 am
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While the points made are valid, as in any argument, it comes down to facts. Fender is a corporation and their sole purpose is to make money.We as musicians have the romantic notion that Fender wants to maintain the dream of all things past.

With all the posts about artists past, I'm kind of surprised that a moderator hasn't stepped in with some kid of insight, but then, maybe all the questions have been answered.

I think it's safe to say that the issue is unresolved, let's go back to the important issues like, " how old is my bass", 'is this really a Fender?", etc.


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Post subject:
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:10 am
Why don't you get over it. It's the little guy that lays out his or her hard earned bucks that don't always have, that makes or breaks a brand. They don't always buy a product because some dude is using a bass supplied to him by that brand.


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Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:22 am
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Wow, multiple pages. Actually, I wouldn't have picked up any bass guitar if it wasn't for Steve Harris. Although I have respect for the OldSkool bassist, I could care less what bass they play. I love Stanley Clark, I wouldn't buy his signature Alembic. I would wish I can play all his licks. Now Steve Harris has his 2nd signature bass, I still wouldn't buy it - not worthy to play his sig bass, that's just me tho.

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Post subject:
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:01 am
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GL and Rez, I have to agree with both of you. Thinking about it, there are a lot of people that believe that buying an expensive instrument will make them a better player, there are probably a lot of people that buy a signature bass to play like their idols.

Oh well, why can't we all just get along?


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Post subject:
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:17 pm
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scotgedwards is correct, a page listing all the hit versions of songs throughout history recorded on Fender basses would be a powerful selling point. There would be tens of thousands of hit songs. I'd hate to predict but easily 50% of every hit song since 1951. A list of NUMBER 1 songs on Billboard's Hot 100 might be more manageable and just as impressive.

There are many very capable, very talented and in some cases downright God-gifted bassists who are currently Fender endorsing artists. Some have played on tracks that won Grammy Awards, CMA Awards, AMA Awards, MTV Music Awards and other honors. Some won them personally outright and are in various Hall of Fames.

Here are some of the current Fender endorsing bassists that I think are really good representatives for the brand:
Amos Heller (Taylor Swift's bassist with 4 Grammy/7 CMA/3 ACMA/6 AMA/7 Billboard/5 CMT/1 MTV/1 Peoples/7 CMT Online/7 Teen Choice/2 Canadian CMA/2 Nicks)
Annie Clements (Sugarland bass/vocals with 2 Grammy/3 CMA/4 ACMA/1 AMA/3 CMT/1 AMA)
Bob Babbitt (Funk Bros with 3 Grammy + probable personal R&R HOF induction coming)
Brandon Rose (12 yr old Detroit prodigy who played at 2009 NAMM and who can apparently keep up with Marcus Miller already, has infinite potential.)
Dave Roe (Nashville session/touring bassist playing on 4 Grammy winners)
Doug Phelps (Kentucky Headhunters bass with 1 Grammy/3 CMA/1 ACMA)
Duff McKagan (Guns & Roses/Velvet Revolver/Jane's Additiction with 4 AMA/4 MTV/2 WMA)
Eva Gardner (Touring bassist for PINK and others. Sound music theory background with honors music degree from UCLA so she a bright career ahead)
Geddy Lee (Rush with induction into Canadian Music Hall of Fame & Bass Hall Of Fame by Guitar Player Mag/7 Junos/Rush's Star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame is located at 6752 Hollywood Boulevard+numerous other awards)
Ginger Pooley (nee Reyes) (Smashing Pumpkins with 2 Grammy/1 AMA)
Greg Richling (The Wallflowers with 2 Grammy)
Jaco Pastorius (Weather Report bassist inducted Downbeat Jazz Hall of Fame, 2 Grammy)
Marcus Miller (5 personal Grammy)
Meshell Ndegeocello (10 Grammy noms and unlimited potential)
Mike Dirnt (4 Grammy/3 AMA/6 Billboard/1 Juno/22 worldwide MTV/1 Peoples Choice/2 Nick/2 Brit + 48 other misc awards)
Mikey Way (My Chemical Romance with 1 Grammy/1 TRL/1 NME)
Nik West (Dave Stewart’s all-female Rock Fabulous Orchestra project, a new solo album and more to come)
Pete Wentz(Fall Out Boy with 2 MTV/5 Teen Choice/1 Nick)
Reggie Hamilton (BUSY NYC session bassist)
Roscoe Beck (Multiple Grammy projects)
Steve Bailey (Pioneered 6 string fretless)
Sting (Sir Gordon Sumner combined solo & with The Police has 16 Grammy/Inducted R&R Hall of Fame & Songwriter Hall of Fame + misc other)
Stuart Hamm (multiple Grammy projects)
Tony Franklin (Artist Relations Manager for Fender and Fender-owned SWR Amplification, and performs bass clinics for Fender and SWR Amplification in addition to playing with Roy Harper, Jimmy Page, David Gilmour, Kate Bush, Gary Wright, Quiet Riot and many others he is generally credited with introducing Metal audiences to the fretless bass tones)
Victor Bailey (Another Weather Report player in the Fender camp who has at various times played with Sonny Rollins, Miriam Makeba, LL Cool J, Madonna, Mary J. Blige, Sting, Patrice Rushen and others.)

There are more. Those are just my personal picks of bassists with Fender artist endorsements that have had a positive impact on electric bass and remained faithful to the brand as they continued to "Dance with the one who brung you." It would be nice to see Jamerson, Kaye, Dunn and the other historically significant bassists in the mix too. But anyone who knows what was going on back then knows what instrument they were playing because the Fender P-Bass and later the Fender J-Bass was about all there was to play aside from some seldom used Gibsons and of course the short scale Hagstroms and Hoffners that were more widely used in Europe than Fenders. A Fender bass is still pretty much the standard and has been since 1951.


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Post subject:
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:40 pm
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I remember seeing Carol Kaye mentioned in older ads for Fender, that I saw in old back issues of various guitar & music magazines.

But if that's not what Carol is playing now, it would make no sense for Fender to use her now.

I certainly learned a lot about many of the names mentioned by listening to the older music, and to the contemporary stuff when I was growing up. P-Basses were pretty standard.

However if I ever get a Fender bass, and maybe one day I will, I'd prefer a J-Bass. It's more my style, but what many of the older players mentioned did with a P-Bass, it was incredible.

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Last edited by zontar on Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:44 am
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Carol Kaye and Fender parted on very bad terms.


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:18 am
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oxfan wrote:
Carol Kaye and Fender parted on very bad terms.


and she's endorses Ibanez IIRC.

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