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Post subject: New Build! pics inside
Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:06 pm
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Ok, so i'm really excited that I finally finished this build. I've been working on it for a good while now, and she plays like a dream.

this is my first bass build (I'm much more of a guitarist, so thats typically what i build) so tell me what you think, and ideas for improvement are also greatly appreciated.

I started with this:
Image

and ended up with this:
Image

Image

Image

Image

just to try to answer a few questions before they're asked:

the body and neck are from a squier (as seen above)
tuners, bridge and pickup are from an 89 japanese fender jazz special.
it has yet to be named.

~Jag


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Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:20 pm
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Looks good. For a name, how about "Squier-Uh-Neeze Special?"

I think USA electronics, especially a better pickup and tone capacitor would have been better than the Japanese stuff. But the Japanese stuff is probably better than what was in there.


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Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:52 am
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I'm with Dave. Get 500k pots, an orange drop cap and then were talkin!

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Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:03 pm
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tommygunn wrote:
Get 500k pots, an orange drop cap and then were talkin!


Or 250K pots. It probably has 250K pots now. If it sounds too bright and you want a more bass heavy sound, then 500K pots would be in order. I like 250's on P-basses. Sometimes 500K pots sound good to me on passive P/J's. Depends on how bright it sounds.

As far as the capacitor goes, there are several choices in type that you can use, but I'd stick to the 0.05uF spec with the 250K's as a starting point. I might go to 0.022uF with the 500K's as a starting point. Probably I'd alligator clip in several different value caps before deciding which one to solder in permanently.

The various commonly available tone capacitor types and their characteristics:

Ceramic Disc = Very cheap, small, stable, reliable in a tone circuit. They don't leak, last about forever. Round shape conducive to lie on back of a pot. Wide tolerance factor, typically 20%, meaning a 0.05 capacitor could actually read anywhere from 0.04 to 0.06. This is the cap design present in more Fender CBS era instruments than any other. My 68 Telecaster and 71 Jazz Bass both had them. The disadvantage to them is they induce a little bit of distortion to the signal, especially on higher notes. Some people like a little edge in their tone. Ceramic disc caps were abandoned by Fender during the CBS era when they switched to polyester "chicklet" caps. Ceramic caps labeled with the 0.05 value were obsolete for over 20 years, however you could buy all the 0.047 ones you wanted which basically are the very same thing due the 20% tolerance factor. Fender recently contracted for a huge quantity of ceramic caps labeled 0.05, 0.03, 0.02, 0.01 and 0.003uF. When they arrived they started putting them in instruments again. You can get them from about any Fender dealer or online parts supplier for under $3 each or you can buy about 6 of them for $3 at any electronics store that is basically the same thing labeled with slightly different values. Fender part number for the 0.05uF is 001-5552-000, for 0.02uF the part number is 005-4459-000, for 0.03uF the part number is 001-5545-000 and those are the ones that are relative to bass. Ceramic disc capacitors are an excellent choice if you like the edge they give your tone.

Polypropylene (Poly) Film Caps = More expensive and larger than ceramic discs with somewhat lower distortion and typically a much tighter tolerance factor of 5%. Stable, reasonably inexpensive, reliable and commonly available. When most people say "ORANGE DROP" cap, this is the one they are probably talking about. They are referring to the Sprague Orange-Drop 715P or 716P polypropylene capacitor available in a wide range of values. Most commonly used values in passive basses are .022, .033, .047, .068 Sometimes people will put a cap with a value as high as .1 in a very bright bass to make it sound bassier. Poly caps still give you a slight edge in your tone, but are not nearly as harsh as a ceramic disc. A very popular upgrade. When ordering "Orange Drops" from MOST online guitar parts websites this is what you are ordering. The 400 volt ones sound better than the smaller 200 volt ones due the larger film area!

Mylar Film Caps = Sprague 225P "MYLAR ORANGE DROPS" are the best quality Mylar film caps for instrument use. Just about the same cost as poly caps with similar tight tolerance. But, Mylar caps put hardly any distortion in the tone. Almost perfectly clean. With a Mylar cap it is hard to hear any edge at all even when playing very hard with the tone just barely cracked from full bass. Only drawback is they fail at a lower temperature than polypropylene caps which is important in a hot amplifier, but doesn't matter at all in a guitar. If your guitar gets hot enough for the mylar cap to to fail, the failed cap will be the least of your problems. A good choice for a cleaner bass tone.

Glass Sealed Metal Encased Paper In Oil Caps = Commonly referred to as "Vitamin-Q Type" capacitors. The most expensive capacitor choice. Sprague Vitamin-Q's were developed for use in ICBM guidance systems in the very early days of the cold war so they had to be very rugged. They generally have a 10% tolerance factor, but long term they are the most stable and less likely to leak of any of the paper in oil capacitors. They have the warmest most distortion free tone of them all and every passive bass I own now has them inside. About all of the glass sealed metal encased paper in oil caps have nearly identical performance characteristics because they were all built to military specs to fill government contracts. Even the Russian made ones sound great and some people actually prefer the Russian ones! I like the genuine Sprague ones myself because they have an insulating plastic on the outside of the metal casing. Vitamin-Q types are no longer in mass production due environmental concerns so the ones that are left are becoming more and more expensive, but searching them out is worth it. They are available in a wide range of values but mostly I use the 0.047 and 0.022 values. Always thoroughly wash your hands after handling them because they have PCB's inside that are known to cause cancer and some traces of PCB could be on the outside from the manufacturing process. The longer you wait the more they will cost. I list sources for them on my website here: http://brotherdave.com/add_parts.htm

In the 50's through about 1964 Fender used Cornell-Dubilier brand wax or common paper in oil capacitors in high end instruments, and Astron brand wax caps in less expensive instruments. These have all sorts of drawbacks in the 21st century, the most significant of which are leakage, instability, large size and high cost making them an irrational choice for today. The glass encased metal sealed Vitamin-Q type caps have nearly identical performance characteristics today as the caps used in the 50's did when they were new, so I would not recommend buying any of these old leaky 50's capacitors which you see sometimes on eBay.


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Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:08 pm
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jesus thats a lot to take in!
:lol:

I read through some of it, but like ReRanch's refin info, I'd have to read it in multiple sittings.

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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:06 pm
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tommygunn wrote:
jesus thats a lot to take in!
:lol:

I read through some of it, but like ReRanch's refin info, I'd have to read it in multiple sittings.


Ok just for you Tommy:

Image

Above is a CERAMIC CAP. VERY edgy sound with medium heavy harmonic distortion. Used most during CBS era and back in new Fender's today! Super cheap! About 50 cents US each.

Image

Above are Sprague Orange Drop Poly caps. Less distortion but still a slight edge to them. The most commonly used Orange Drop cap in guitars. You can probably find them locally for about $2.

Image

That is what Sprague Orange Drop Mylar caps look like. They are boxy shaped compared to the rounder poly ones. They sound ALMOST as creamy smooth as Paper In Oil Vitamin-Q type caps and cost about the same as the Poly ones.

Image

Above are Vitamin-Q caps made by Sprague. These are the SMOOTHEST sounding but also the most expensive so figure on wild price swings for various brands. Up to 15 or 20 dollars US for the real Vitamin-Q. All of the sealed in glass metal encased caps are built to about the same military specifications, so the brand doesn't matter all that much. For example, below is the Russian version that only costs about 5 Dollars US and some people will only use these Soviet ones because they say they sound better! You can buy whole boxes of the Soviet ones for like 15 bucks on eBay.

Image


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Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:03 am
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Thanks for the pictures brotherdave!


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Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:12 pm
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This bass will sound better if you add a Jazz Bass pickup in the bridge and upgrade the tone circuit with the Grease Bucket.

You can keep the top-mount jack or install a side-mount if you prefer the look and feel of a "Precision Special" bass.


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Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:17 am
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chromeface wrote:
This bass will sound better if you add a Jazz Bass pickup in the bridge and upgrade the tone circuit with the Grease Bucket.

You can keep the top-mount jack or install a side-mount if you prefer the look and feel of a "Precision Special" bass.


I'm not a big "Greasebucket" fan myself. I had that tone circuit on one of the early Highway One Jazz Basses I owned briefly and it didn't win me over to the Greasebucket or back to the Jazz Bass. My favorite P/J electronics setup is the three control passive Bill Lawrence Master Volume/Pickup Blend/Master Tone arrangement he recommends with his WILDE P/J set.


I like the side mounted jacks myself but, I don't think I would rout and/or drill a perfectly good bass body just to move the jack unless absolutely necessary. (The first generation P-basses had side mounted jacks. So that was the original P-bass jack location.)

Since this project is already refinished, I don't think that I'd go for pickup routing or jack drilling on it. I might change the pickup to one appropriate for what I want it to sound like eventually, plus upgrade the tone cap and maybe install better pots if it has room for full size CTS pots. Otherwise I don't think I'd throw much more at it.


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Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:11 am
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I dislike the side-mount jack because it doesn't prevent the jack plug to be accidentally put away from the bass when you move towards the cable, even if the latter is secured by the strap.

The top-mount jack is a lot better and by far more safe and secure, especially with angled plugs.


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Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:42 pm
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chromeface wrote:
I dislike the side-mount jack because it doesn't prevent the jack plug to be accidentally put away from the bass when you move towards the cable, even if the latter is secured by the strap.

The top-mount jack is a lot better and by far more safe and secure, especially with angled plugs.


The pickguard mounted jack is also is precisely how lots of Precision pickguards get broken when you or someone else trips or steps on your cord. So for me anyway, a pickguard mounted jack is not safer for the instrument itself, which is one thing they corrected on the Jazz. While I admit coming unplugged at a gig can be problematic, it doesn't usually break anything but your pride. With the cable looped through the strap, I have never had a disconnect problem from the side jack. I leave some slack on the jack side so I can feel a tug when I'm out of cord, also the angle is to the side instead of down. I use 90 degree plugs at the instrument so any pressure is to the side toward the end pin. I don't move around that much when I play anyway.

At this moment I have four basses. All of them have side jacks. Not once has any bass I've ever owned (including basses with the jack on the pickguard) came unplugged at a gig because I loop through the strap near the lower end pin. You can pull on it all you want form the amp end and a 90 degree plug isn't coming out when you are wearing the guitar due the angle of the force being to the side instead of down and the strap adding some drag to any sudden cable movement.

This may be a bit rougher on your cords though, I will grant you that. Because they do the bend on the back side of the strap and there is additional pressure between the strap and the guitar holding the cable in place.

Even with the basses I've owned in the past that did have a top mounted jack, I still looped the cable through the strap. It is just my habit and I know it works for me. Your mileage of course may vary.


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Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:54 pm
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:lol: Dave!

Ha I have the 2nd ones in my Dirnt, I like them pretty smooth for the most part.

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