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Post subject: Top-load & Strings Thru
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 9:20 am
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Hello fender players. This thing doesn't let me sleep at night, i'd like to get a straight answer. Im wondering if there's any difference in string tension between strings-thru and Top-load? Also, i've read, that Top-load gives more "punchy" sound, and thru body gives more sustain, is that true and really considerable? Thanks for reading.
P.S Im sorry a lot, if this question been posted many times, i couldn't find the topic.
P.S.S Sorry for my English also :)


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Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 12:54 pm
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I dunno about tension but as far as sustain yes, the through-the-body does make a difference. My new USA P definitely has more sustain than my 2001 MIM P. Both are good basses, however I find the new one is my "go to" instrument. Part of the difference also is from the HMV bridge. So then, why did Fender quit offering that when they re-designed the P in 1957? That's above my pay-grade......


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Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:30 pm
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For what is worth the original string-through-body design was, I would imagine, a pure engineering decision. With the fairly flimsy early bridge designs (post-war shortage of materials?) the string tension pulled the bridge down onto the bass surface so it did not entirely rely on the mounting screws for its strength. As bridge design improved there was no real need for this and it was cheaper to switch to top mounting.

I doubt the better sustain of the current American Standards has much to do with the bridge and a lot more to do with the body and graphite reinforced neck combination not having any energy-sucking resonances (dead spots).

It would be easy to measure the difference as the new bridges (and the old Deluxe bridges) support top-loading as well as through body. Instead we all seem to rely on subjective assessment. All I know is that my Fender USA basses give me all the sustain I need for gigging - and no dead spots - so it is not anything I would lose sleep over.


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Post subject: Re: Top-load & Strings Thru
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 12:47 pm
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Joe_Crane wrote:
Hello fender players. This thing doesn't let me sleep at night, i'd like to get a straight answer. Im wondering if there's any difference in string tension between strings-thru and Top-load? Also, i've read, that Top-load gives more "punchy" sound, and thru body gives more sustain, is that true and really considerable? Thanks for reading.
P.S Im sorry a lot, if this question been posted many times, i couldn't find the topic.
P.S.S Sorry for my English also :)


No difference in string tension. None. Takes the same tension to get to pitch either way.

Top loading sounds "PUNCHY" because there is less sustain. That is desirable for my style of music (old R&B/Motown) with most strings.

Also certain strings like the LABELLA Jamerson set is not made for body through stringing and these strings may break if set up body through due the angle of the bend. The other Labella 760's seem ok body through but not the Jamerson set. I found that out a long time ago. You will get more sustain with body through stringing though if that is what you want.


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Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:43 pm
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Agree - laws of physics dictate there is no difference in string tension.


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Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 11:07 am
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Brother Dave, what flats can you run string-thru(Thomastik-Infelds for instance) or do you recommend top-loading all of them?


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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:17 am
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The only thing I can see is string through the body give a better string breakover point at the saddle. I feel it gives slight more sustain. Not sure it is enough to worry about.. I did find with the more flexable TI Jazz Flats it puts slightly more tension on the strings. Jury still out here.


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Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:25 am
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Actually there is a difference in tension, although there's probably no-one could really tell. Tension required to tune a string is dependent on the length of the string to be tensioned. Stringing through the body requires more length to be tensioned, so they are tighter that way. Does it make a difference? Don't think so. The only other effect, as mentioned above, is that you can get away with a smaller, simpler bridge design.

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Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 11:47 pm
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[quote="Telebass"]Actually there is a difference in tension, although there's probably no-one could really tell. [/quote]

Sorry to be pedantic, but the tension is, theoretically, entirely a function of the string length, the mass per unit length and the tuned frequency.

http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/mod/resourc ... ?id=289483

The length and angle of the tail could effect the feel (give/stretch) of the string if there was string movement over the saddle but I'm not sure that can happen on a typical Fender bass bridge.


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Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 11:01 pm
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treekiller wrote:
Brother Dave, what flats can you run string-thru(Thomastik-Infelds for instance) or do you recommend top-loading all of them?


As far as I know only the Labella 760M's (JAMERSON SET) warn right on the package against a body through set up. The other 760 Flat sets are OK for body through setups according to Labella. Apparently it is just the Jamerson set that can't do the bend.

Since my experiences in the late 60's and early 70's with Labella 760M Flatwounds breaking repeatedly on my body through Fender Telecaster, I personally prefer to top load all flats. What makes the Jamerson's different from the other Labella 760 flats is the silk wrapping between the outer ribbon wrap and the core. On the Tele back then I also had breakage issues with nylon wrapped strings and even with some roundwounds from time to time.

I'm sure lots of people set up other flats body through with no problems. I think in general strings are way more durable now, or it could be because I mostly use TI strings and they are perhaps more durable. The only other strings I use besides TI JF344's and TI EB344's are GHS Precision Flatwound 3050 REGULAR (55-70-90-105) toploaded with a Leo Quan BAIII bridge on my Fender 51 RI P-bass. I use the big GHS 3050 Regulars because they are about the only string that will intonate correctly on my 51 RI. The Labella 760M's probably would because they are also pretty fat, but the GHS 3050's seem to have somewhat lower tension than the 760M's yet yield a very similar thump. The GHS 3050 Regulars are scarce and I usually have to order them.

Since Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Flats are of somewhat similar construction to the Labella Jamerson's with a silk wrap present in both, I personally would not be brave enough to body through string them. I indeed do use The TI JF344's on one bass, but not body through. On the other hand the tension on the TI's JF344's is like one-half of the tension on the Labellas, so the lower tension might make it safe to body through string them. There is no caution against body through stringing on the JF344 package, but at a list price of nearly $120 and a street price of $60 per set for the TI JF344's I'm too chicken to find out! So I top load them.

The only TI String I ever broke was an Infeld IN344 string during setup on a top loading Fender MIM P-bass with stock bridge before it ever got to pitch. I don't use the IN344 set at all anymore partly because of that and partly because the EB344 just sounds so much better to me that it is worth the extra 10 or 15 bucks.


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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:59 am
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dberriff wrote:
Sorry to be pedantic, but the tension is, theoretically, entirely a function of the string length, the mass per unit length and the tuned frequency.

Yes, and more specifically, it is the speaking length of the string that
matters -- the length from the bridge to the nut. The length of the string
beyond the bridge and the nut does not matter. The tension required will
still be the same.


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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 9:39 am
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warnergt wrote:
dberriff wrote:
Sorry to be pedantic, but the tension is, theoretically, entirely a function of the string length, the mass per unit length and the tuned frequency.

Yes, and more specifically, it is the speaking length of the string that
matters -- the length from the bridge to the nut. The length of the string
beyond the bridge and the nut does not matter. The tension required will
still be the same.


A good way to explain it! That is why extra long scale basses find favor with players that use dropped tuning. Due to the higher tension on extra long scale basses they can be tuned lower without the strings becoming too floppy or vibrating so freely they fret out. And the reverse is also true, short scale basses are easier to play due to lower tension than standard 34 inchers, however shorties don't handle tuning down very well at all. So, if you want to tune lower than standard pitch you will find a benefit in a 35 or 36 inch scale.


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Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 3:46 am
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warnergt wrote:
dberriff wrote:
Sorry to be pedantic, but the tension is, theoretically, entirely a function of the string length, the mass per unit length and the tuned frequency.

Yes, and more specifically, it is the speaking length of the string that
matters -- the length from the bridge to the nut. The length of the string
beyond the bridge and the nut does not matter. The tension required will
still be the same.


But you don't tension the speaking length - you tension everything from the machine head post to the string anchor. Therefore, there MUST be a difference in tension. It's just not a lot, is all.

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Post subject:
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 5:21 am
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Yes, you tension the whole length. However, it is the speaking length that is
making the sound; it is the only part that vibrates and the only part that
matters. It is this length, and only this length, that creates the note. For that
given length, there is a specific tension required to achieve a certain frequency.

It doesn't matter if your string is a mile long. It will require the exact same
tension on that speaking length to achieve the desired frequency. You simply
can't change the necessary tension by adding string beyond the nut or bridge.


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