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Post subject: Need help ascertaining value of P-Bass
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:24 pm
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Hey guys, I'm a newbie here. Cool site


I have a P bass that I bought on layaway from a place in Ft. Lauderdale called Musicians Exchange. I finally paid it off with birthday money in April '87 right after I got my license.

This place was a new/used music store downstairs and upstairs they had a club that hosted some pretty decent acts from time to time.

My older brother used to frequent the club cause he lived a block away and worked close. He used to drink with the bass player from Weather Report who used to go in there and jam. The guys name was Jaco and I had never heard of him (I was into Zeppelin, etc.) But my brother knew I was learning bass and told me this guy was amazing so he took me one night.

I remember the place was a little dive and this guy he introduced me to was pretty drunk & dingy looking and I was thinking, "you brought me here for this?"

There was a blues band playing and then they took a break and this guy Jaco asked the manager Dave (I remember him being a fixture there everytime I was there, and thats also my brother's name) to go downstairs and open the store so he could grab a bass to jam with. And he came back upstairs with a fretless Precision.

So needless to say he plugs it in and screws around tuning it for 10 minutes. Then he starts playing notes that I didn't think could even come out of a bass. I sat there with my mouth open watching this guy and my brother says, "Think he's as good as John Paul Jones?"

The next day I put that bass on lay-away for $420.

I met him only one other time at my brothers apartment. Sadly Jaco was killed not long after that.

So thats the background of where it came from. I've had it ever since and it's perfect. I've shown it to a couple dealers and they all say they have never seen one like it.

I'm starting to think it might have been a special order.

It's a maple neck with no fret lines, only small dots on the side of the fretboard. It's what they called a Cherry Burst finish.

It plays like butter but ever since seeing what Jaco did with it, I can never do it justice so it's been sitting in it's case only to be pulled out and drooled over every so often.

The serial number is S912060

I appreciate anything anyone might be able to tell me about it.

This is a link to my photo album since I can't figure out how post pics. Its the second set of pics. (first one is of my Bullet)
http://picasaweb.google.com/btlisak/100 ... 9094719762


Thanks


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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:00 pm
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Your bass was made in late '78 or '79. Are those the knobs that came with it? I doubt that they are original, as the bass was close to 10 years old when you bought it. Unless, as you say, it was a special order. I have a similar maple fingerboard fretless from '76 (in walnut) and it too plays like butter.

Unless it was some special order, the current general value on these (based on ebay sales over the past couple of months) is in the $1,000-1,300 range. If you look for on-line dealers or in stores, they will be priced more like $2,000-$2,500, but they aren't selling at that (except for exceptional ones, perhaps). There have been a few on ebay around $1,600 that have not moved in well over a month. The pictures of yours indicates that yours is in quite nice shape, so something like $1,500 might be a top end, but you are missing the original bridge and PU covers, which would add to the value. Not sure about the knobs, but they don't look original to me (Strat maybe?).

With due deference to the provenance you indicate about this bass, without some photographic proof of Jaco playing it or a signature of his on it, the story is really just a story. I mean, I believe you, but if I were buying the bass from you, I wouldn't believe you. And I don't mean just me, and it's nothing personal.

Lastly, the word "worth" has more than one meaning. My best guess is that the bass is worth more to you than current market value for a late 70s FL P-bass in excellent shape. "Worth" for insurance purposes is replacement value, and that would not take into account your experience with the bass.

Also, and this won't be the most popular statement here, but the quality of American Fenders in the late 70s was on a decline, and the workmanship varied considerably from instrument to instrument (sorry folks, this is well-documented). The value is also very tied to the construction. How tight is the neck pocket? Is there space between the neck and the body along the very upper "frets"?

Just a few of the factors to consider when answering your question. Above all, enjoy playing it. That's what it's for.


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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:54 pm
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I do have the original knobs (chrome ones, right?) I only took off the pickguard once to kind of re-load the spring action on the tongue of the cord plug in cause it was a bit loose.

But you really think the bridge and the pick up covers are not original?

I never even gave them a second look cause they were on it when I got it. Now I'm wondering what should be there instead.

As for the story of when I got it (or rather when I decided to get it) I know it's just that, a story. But it's 100% true and not really important to me if it's believed or not, just thought with this large of a community there might happen to be someone out here who might have frequented Musicians Exchange "back in the day" and might have remembered seeing Jaco there as he used to make the rounds. He and my brother went to Northeast high school and had a couple common friends.

Anyway thanks for the input.


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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:44 pm
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Yes, the original knobs would be "chrome domes."

My other comment related to the complete lack of a bridge cover and pickup cover. But this might be my bad - I'm not sure when Fender stopped using the bridge and PU covers as stock items. Most people remove then for easier string change access and greater room for right hand position. If you look at 70s P-basses, you'll see some with them and some without. A close examination for screw holes indicates that they were there at some point (or not), but even that is not definitive as to when they wer stock.

I'll have to look into this one.

Edited to add: Here's a link to a 1978 P-bass Owner's Manual: http://www.fender.com/support/manuals/pdfs/instr_owners/Precision_Bass_1978.pdf

The picture clearly shows covers on both the bridge and pickup. Oddly, your photos show no screw holes near the bridge (or evidence of repair) and the pickguard (if original) shows no screw holes above and below the pickup. So, there is one other option that I can think of: you have a bass with a '78/'79 fretless neck on a more recent body that never had bridge or PU covers. I'm sure that there are other possibilities, but that's all I've got for now.

And as I said, I believe your story, but most buyers wouldn't put any stock in it from a sales perspective. So again, "worth" is a very subjective term; especially in this case.


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Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:05 am
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Is there a date code or indicator somewhere on the body to see if they match?

How can you tell if two pieces (neck & body) match on any guitar if you buy it used? Are there corresponding serial numbers? Seems to me. if there is a month/year mark on both. that only really means that they were produced in the same month/year, not that they were shipped from the factory as a unit.

Never thought about it...


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Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:53 pm
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Well, yes and no. Necks, bodies, neckplates and pots were pulled from the shelf more or less at random; hence the date ranges you'll find here on the Fender Site for product dating. http://www.fender.com/support/usa_instruments.php

As for neck codes, there's no real way to definitively state that the neck on your instrument was the one that came with it originally, as there are no codes to match up. There are typically dates or codes on the butt end of the neck by the truss rod screw, but in the 70s, use of the dates changed to codes, and they weren't necessarily used consistently. Here are a couple of links that may help.

http://brotherdave.com/add_data.htm

http://www.ggjaguar.com/neckcode.htm

http://www.vintagerocker.com/fender/neck_dates.html


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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:57 am
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This is very interesting! Have you sought out an appraisal by someone who could establish origin and authenticity? There are some very knowledgeable people who frequent this board, but I doubt any of them could give you the answers you are looking for without actually holding the bass in their hands, like they would on the Antique Road Show. And as Fretless said, the value in most vintage bass guitars is in keeping it stock. Every mod actually drives down the value, and in some cases causes the instrument to have no value at all.

BTW, once you establish the value, what will you do with the bass?


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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:59 pm
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That's a nice bass.

It has a Sienna sunburst and the body is probably a 1981 or 82. The neck may not be original to the bass so if it has a serial number that starts with S8, it may be a 78 or 79, and be older than the body.

The body never had covers and that was starting to be the specification on the early eighties.

Fender was placing a sticker with the serial number of the bass in the neck pocket around this time. I have one on my '79 Pbass and the serial number should be the same as on the neck, if it is the original neck.

The white pickup may be original. I had a 1983 precision and I own a 1983 Jazz and they both came with white pickups from the factory.
They also had single ply pickguards and your bass has a triple ply pickguard, but your bass could be a transistion model of some sort.

The knobs are the same as was used on the Fender Bullet basses of 1982, Strat knobs with unpainted numbers. They couldv'e been switched
but that means the pots had to be changed from solid shaft to splined shaft.

I don't know if the Jaco story is real or not but it is a cool aspect of the bass, If you had some sort of documentation or photo evidence to prove it. It could dramatically increase the value of the bass.

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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:05 pm
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From everything I'm hearing, it looks like I'm going to have to do some disassembly to verify what I took as a given for 20+years, that my bass was all original.

I just put the old knobs back on it today. And since it was mentioned, the pots do have shafts with a split in them. And the knobs in the pictures were from my bullet bass, which are also back where they should be.

As for the history, as I said it IS true and since jaco was just a guy my brother knew back then, no one thought to take pictures cause we knew he would always be around, or so we thought....

So I hope if I take it apart it does have a matching serial number on the body. And as for what I'm going to do with it, I thought I would have it all my life but being unemployed changes perspective.


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Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:55 am
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I think it is original, since you bought it in '87 and it may have been nine years old at the time, ther was little incentive to fake a bass of that age.

The big question is if the body is an original Fender body but if you take off the neck, you may be able to see a serial number tag and that should suffice for most buyers.

Since you switched the knobs and know that they are from a Bullet bass that you own, I would suggest you put it back to what it originally looked like for the purpose of selling it.

It looks like a very nice bass,but I can tell you that Fender made a fair number of Fretless Precision basses with maple necks like yours.

I really like the look of your bass.

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