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Post subject: '53 Precision Questions
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:43 pm
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Greetings everybody, I'm new here and tried to post previously but forgot to put a subject. My girlfriend recently acquired a '53 Precision, SN 1032. It's all original except possibly the tailpiece bridge saddles. They are made of ebony, appear to be home made, and one is cracked in the middle (where the screw goes through) and has been repaired once with super glue.

My questions are what was the original material for these parts on the '53 Pbasses and are there any reproduction replacements available anywhere?

Thanks for any info,

Drew Pierce


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Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:44 pm
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That is a VERY valuable and important instrument. Probably worth more than my MG TD sports car of the exact same vintage. It is worth maybe $12,000. This bass, if all original, would appraise at more than my toy car.

Oddly enough the bridge baseplate seems to be available from several sources. But not the barrels or the barrel screws. You might luck into someone at a guitar show that might have the ORIGINAL bridge parts you need, but sort of a crap shoot and expect to "hit the hip" because it will not be cheap. Many hundreds would have to be peeled. It would be a worthwhile investment to find the original vintage parts though.

I tried to find out the part number for the reissue bridge barrels, but there isn't a Parts List on the support page for the '51 RI or an CIJ basses at all.
You could email Fender Consumer Relations from the SUPPORT tab on the site. They probably could and would help you with the parts list.

If it was me, and IF I was going to play it out, I'd buy a new reissue bridge which is really close and remove the parts you need from it. They are about $59 US plus shipping at http://basspartsresource.com/bridge_genuinefender.htm where the bridge is identified as TELE BASS BRIDGE. To get it CLOSE to original while looking for vintage correct parts, which frankly would take a near miracle to find.

Two other VERY viable options for playing it out are:

#1 Finding one of the obsolete Leo Quan Bad (insert bad 3 letter word for rump here) III bridges which is a DIRECT drop in replacement. Mostly you'll have to look on eBay. I'd try to find one of the pre-grooved ones for ease of installation. This bridge ALSO allows TOP LOADING so you can use Labella 760M's or body through stringing like the original configuration, which actually sounds woodier, with other strings.

#2. Another VERY good drop-in and affordable replacement bridge is the Wilkinson Tilt Saddle Tele Bass Bridge here: http://basspartsresource.com/bridge_wilkinson.htm Put on the original bridge cover from angela.com and nobody will know.

Those are your three options as I can see them right now. If I run across some source for the barrels and barrel screws I'll let you know! The ebony is definitely NOT a tonal improvement over the original brass.

I just happen to have a 51 RI bridge actually. Right here in a drawer.

If you wish to contact me, you may do so through my personal website in my signature below if I can be of any further assistance in helping you restore this VERY significant instrument to vintage correct condition or just to get it patched up with reissue parts in the interim. I attend guitar shows in NC/SC/VA/GA/FLA and AL. At these shows I am always on the lookout for friends.

My heartfelt congratulations and respect for even TOUCHING such a rare first generation bass. I think they were dang near the best thing Leo Fender ever did.


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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:51 pm
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Hi Drew,

To answer your question, the original bridge saddles on a 1953 Fender Precision bass were pressed fiber, not ebony, and no they are currently not made by anyone, as far as I know.

The original Precisions came out during the Korean war and brass was in short supply because of that war effort, so Leo used pressed fiber saddles for the original Precision bass.

Brother Dave made a good suggestion that you get a reissue bridge to use on this bass if you are going to play it out, but I can understand being reluctant to change anything on such a classic bass.

The Telecaster bass of the late 1960's used all steel saddles and they would also work on your bass.

Please post some pictures if you can.

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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:23 pm
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Thanks, Brother Dave and BCbassman. I've been communicating with Brother Dave off list and he's been very helpful. Very interesting, BCbassman, that the original saddles were pressed fiber. That could explain why somebody replaced them with ebony. That may have been the closest they could come to duplicating the originals, which I expect either fell apart or wore out to the point of not working properly. I found some replacement saddles at partsisparts.com, which I think will work. They appear to be either plated brass or steel, more like the later versions.

Replacing the whole bridge is not an option for a couple reasons. First, it has never been removed and the mounting screws are kind of rusted into the TP plate. Second, that is the only place where the serial number is actually located on the bass, unless it's somewhere on the body end of the neck where it can't be seen. It needs to stay where it is.

I have some pix in email but don't know how to post them here. If somebody can help me out with that, I'll be glad to do so. Brother Dave has them, maybe he can post them. Dave?

Drew Pierce


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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:39 pm
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brotherdave wrote:
That is a VERY valuable and important instrument. Probably worth more than my MG TD sports car of the exact same vintage. It is worth maybe $12,000. This bass, if all original, would appraise at more than my toy car.

...

My heartfelt congratulations and respect for even TOUCHING such a rare first generation bass. I think they were dang near the best thing Leo Fender ever did.


Calm down BrotherDave, take your meds... LOL

This would be SWEET to touch in person, most definitely a Holy Grail bass and a great example of American industrial design in the '50s. This and the Telecaster are amazing examples of simplicity and elegance in one package.


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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:45 pm
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Drifty Drew wrote: "here are some pix of Emily's '53 and my friend and band mates '62. His is also all original except for a funky overspray of black paint on the top edges and back. Looks like somebody masked off the top and sprayed the edges and back with Krylon barbecue grill paint. Otherwise, both are factory original and the pix show a good comparison of the two styles."

ENJOY!

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That's All Folks!


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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:00 pm
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Holy Moly, BD, I'll take the '62 Funk Machine, even with the overspray.


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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:31 am
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Those are two very cool basses. Grill paint overspray! WOW!
I guess people did everything to these basses back in the day.

I would love to play either of those basses.

The original fiber saddles tended to sag over time so many owners replaced them with steel, brass or I guess ebony.

Drew- I would suggest that you just replace the bridge saddles and intonation screws and leave the original bridge base plate with the Serial number on the bass.

I got to play a restored 1953 Precision bass and it was very nice. It is hard to describe the silky feel of a Fender bass neck that has 56 years of wear on it!

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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:16 pm
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Quote:
If it was me, and IF I was going to play it out, I'd buy a new reissue bridge which is really close and remove the parts you need from it.



I wrote that earlier, BC says the same thing basically. I think that is the best advice which is why I listed it first. I think it will actually sound better too. I'm pretty sure it would be better to replace the screws also. I'd save the old ones though.

ALSO, just got new email from DRIFTY DREW who wrote:
Quote:
We stand corrected on my bandmate's Precision. It's apparently a '61 rather than a '62, as he has assumed for the 23 years he's owned it. Out of curiosity, this afternoon we took off the neck and the attached pic shows "4-61" hand written on the end of the neck, indicating an April '61 assembly. Anyhoo, thank you so much for posting those pix and if you want to post this one, feel free.


HERE IS THE PENCIL MARK Image

Actually this still could be a '62 model. Fender model years ran July 1 to June 30th of the following year. If the serial says '62, it probably is a '62 model, but might have been assembled in '61. There are any number of reasons why the neck could have taken over 3 months to get assembled. Maybe a minor issue in assembly or final inspection caused it to be gone over again by the neck crafter. Who knows? But I'd go by the serial over a pencil mark as the model year over the pencil mark.


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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:46 am
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Funny- I would go with the pencil date on the neck as more accurate than the serial number.

Serial numbers on all fender instruments were used in a somewhat random order.

The serial number plates were stored in bins and used as instruments were assembled, but no strict guidelines were enforced as to which number was used on which instrument.

There are trends that support a dating scheme by serial number, but odd, out of sequence, numbers are seen all of the time.

That is why I would value a penciled in date as a more accurate assesment of an instrument's age than a serial number.

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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:13 am
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FUNNY, but serials are how instruments are dated BC. BINS were changed JULY 1 every year.

Necks could be sent back for refurb for one issue or another and take months to get out. So you go by pencil dates if you want brother. The serial is what counts in my book.

I have enjoyed, for the most part, sharing my experiences with people on the Fender Forum.

FUNNY, but....GOODBYE. I've got enough to worry about without the added stress of abuse here.

This is EXACTLY why I left talkbass.

Argue over every little detail. It is always a GOOD thing.


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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:21 am
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Whoa now, Dave. I didn't mean to say anything that would upset you or anybody else.

I acknowledged your rec. on the replacement bridge. That's a good idea.

I am just expressing my opinon and I don't see how that is abusing you or anyone else. If you have a factual reference to backup your argument, like a report from a Fender factory worker that said this is the way we did it , then fine, let's hear about it. Otherwise, I will discuss this issue and I mean no offense in doing so.

You said:
"FUNNY, but serials are how instruments are dated BC. BINS were changed JULY 1 every year."

Are you maintaining that the entire existing BIN of serial number plates was thrown out and new BIN put in its place?

Do you actually believe this?

I can tell you that I don't think it happened this way.

Leo Fender never threw out anything that he could recycle or reuse in his instrument production.
He didn't waste neck plates at Fender just as he didn't waste them at G&L.

Neck plates were universally used between all of the instruments made at Fender. Why throw out plates that were structurally perfect?

I say they used them up.

Why have neck dates if the serial number was a date code?

The early ones (up until the 70's) were not date codes.

The collectors I know will take a neck date over a serial number because it is more descriptive. I don't know if it is the right date or wrong date but a penciled in date that is under the finish on a non-refinished neck is pretty convincing.

Could the neck have been worked on or the guitar returned to the factory and fitted with a newer neck?
Yes, it could've happened that way, but most Fenders didn't come back,
and most were not additionally worked on at the factory.
They were just sold because the company was usually back ordered on most popular models.

Check out Jim Werner's serial number list and you will see lots of out of sequence Fender serial numbers used during the 50's 60's and 70's.

We are all actually guessing, to a degree, as to when these instruments were built since we were't there.

I'll take a neck date over a serial number any day. I wouldn't expect the owner of a bass with a 4-61 neck date to call his bass a 1962 model. It has the slab fingerboard and all of the characteristics of a 1961 model.

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Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:11 am
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Just to button up this thread, I received the replacement saddles from Parts is Parts.com and they were nicely made, easy to install and worked perfectly. Although in removing the old ones, it appeared that the saddle that was broken was in fact the original and the one that wasn't broken was a replica replacement made of ebony. The original saddle material appeared to be similar in nature to that in the old ('50s) Western Electric telephone receivers and similar products. That kind of black, almost crystalline hard rubber material.

To our surprise, there didn't seem to be a significant difference in tone from one saddle type to the other. Maybe a bit more sustain with the metal saddles and it was easier to fine tune the harmonics and the action of each string.

Thanks to all for the information and ideas.

Drew Pierce


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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:11 am
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Drew- That's great news that the replacement saddles worked so well.

I am not surprised since the basic design of the two piece bridge is so simple.

We would love to see a closeup of that original bridge saddle.

I hope you enjoy playing that '53 Precision.

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